Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[ldstlou]

OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to Nicaragua
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.

So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...

Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

I thought Kyle explained clearly the "mapping process" of a ship and that the movements of the Persistance do not indicate any mapping was going on. There are plenty of Monkeys who know Tim Miller well enough to call him or e-mail him this "theory". I would love to hear what HIS thoughts are on the "conspiracy theory". Would someone please contact Tim Miller?!

[Frijole]

Morning monkeys!!!

Thanks to the Dutch posters for the article... I hope that they are starting to turn on each other.  It's the only way to bring out the cover up and solve this thing.

Keep it in the press, force them to turn on each other, people spying on Joran and posting his location.... maybe "Lady Justice" will prevail after all these years. 

I'm not sure which theory to believe anymore either.  After all these years of reading I just know that Natalee was last seen with the 3 goons and something bad happened.  The more Joran is shown talking, gambling, abusing women the more the public will demand this case be resolved.  It's international now.  He is truly a man without a country.  I do believe he is trying to "out" Paulus. 

So let 'em all talk.  Keep it in the news.  I think we are near the end.  There appears to be more going on than ever before in the case.  Regardless, I'll stand by the girl.

[MumInOhio]

We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?

CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

I hope someone finds the pics. Maybe it will finally put an end to slamming the men and women of the Persistance who worked so hard to find Natalee and sacrificed so much.

Lisa I have always respected  your opinion and posts, but we are all entitled to our own.  This is mine, subject to change, as new information arises.

Kyle’s own posts have what has started the scrutiny…Below is a classic example.  From reading his posts I found he lurked constantly, probably still is.
 
If you read the thread that Texasmom posted the link to on page 24 of the previous thread you will see posts that some smart Monkeys commented on Kyle’s change of demeanor in his posts.  This was IMO when he started asking case related questions, mentioned seeing the Kalpoes, and “we met with Patrick”.  He also mentions that he was on the East coast trying to sell some photos around the time of the Dateline show.

He also mentions on at least 4 occasions that things are going to get interesting! Also mentions the pond being “searched”, back in February…Did he misspeak, again…or is it one of the things referred to below.

Granted we each take different things from these posts, but if Kyle is as clever as he thinks he is, he should have found another means of communication other than an open forum. Private emails and phone calls are two things that come to mind…heck by his own admissions he was in the States…ALE couldn’t track him…maybe the FBI…LOL


Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
on: March 03, 2008, 01:12:57 PM OE

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

[MumInOhio]

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.

I read the Aruban cover-up being the cover-up since 2005...JMO on this

I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o

Yep, I posted it at the time it was happening as well and no one was in the least interested.  I do think some are confusing Silveti and Schaefer perhaps.

But in order for any of this to even matter, one has to first believe for a fact Natalee's remains were in that cage and I am just not convinced that they were.  Nor that they were dismembered and spread all over the place either as that's just too over the top.

And I sure don't understand why we are supposed to be guessing things like initials.

And I thought it was a physician who had the fake credentials and not a lawyer, maybe even the august and esteemed Boushi Wever but can't find anything on it.

Oh, well.  I will just lurk and read and see where all of this goes but can't really make sense of any of it that is believable to me.

According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, Louis Schafer sold the photographs to an unnamed source for a documentary.  According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, he (Kyle) had discussed the sale of the photographs with several networks, a producer, and Peter de Vries.  This really makes me angry if these transactions were taking place before Beth and Dave or our FBI had any knowledge of the photographs or the contents of the cage. From what Kermit has told us, ALE didn't even know about the photographs.  I do have to admit that I would love to have been a mouse in the woodwork when Mos found out.

I remember getting slammed for bringing over a a nasty IM someone had sent to me...I was told e-mails and IM's were private and not to be posted. Is Kyle's private e-mails to someone being posted w/out his permission? Beth's also?

I don't believe for one minute that Beth approved of her e-mail being splashed at SM. We have no way of knowing the context of what was being discussed either, other than an "Aruban cover-up"....as in the article that just came out today? Was that the "cover-up they were discussing? We have no way of knowing what "cover-up" they were discussing.
I do know if I sent a private e-mail to someone and found out it's contents were on SM, I would be highly upset. I call "FOUL PLAY"!!

[MumInOhio]

Sorry Lisa ...looks like I lost my post...It was something about the context of the Aruban cover-up...I took it as the cover-up from 2005 onwards...

[WhiskeyGirl]

Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..

I agree with your sentiments keepthefaith!

Here are the things that sound like some people that have tried to derail the case -

Blame the family for derailing the investigation and it's failure to find Natalee.  

Blame the family and insinuate there was some kind of family conspiracy / coverup with regards to Natalee, her friends, famililies, and her reason for being in Aruba.

Link the family to AmSouth, metals, and other financial involvement.  Insinuate that they were involved in some kind of wrongdoing.

Blame the searchers and insinuate there was some kind of searcher conspiracy / coverup with regards to their efforts to find Natalee.  

Why aren't these same people demanding action from Aruba on this latest coverup / conspiracy?  Why focus only on the searchers?

Were the distractions attempts to recover body parts that were dumped years ago?  Maybe a piece in the pond, moko, SA, and who knows how many other places.  Divert & divide.  No body parts / no case.  How many body parts would be needed to make a case that she is dead, she ain't coming back no more?  How many body parts to make a case that Joran was the last one seen with her?  Anyone see Natalee after the Kalpoes dropper JVDS and NH off (anywhere)?  

If she's been in that easy to find location for years, why didn't Aruba find her with the F-16's?  Has the F-16 data been made public?  I'm thinking the use of that data may have shortened the identification of all those targets.  IMHO, many targets remain.

Aruba is an island surrounded by water.  How many are still out there in Aruba?  How many will continue to wash up bone by bone on Aruban beaches?  Was Natalee the tip of the iceberg?

What is Aruba doing to fight corruption on the island?  It doesn't do any good to talk about crime, coverups, and corruption if you choose to remain silent and do nothing to fix it or work to make it better.  I think restoring paradise may take a while, but it is a worthy goal for any community.  

Is there a special US State Department (or the like) warning for tourists going to countries known to engage in human trafficking, drug related killings/rapes/murders, related corruption/coverup, or are just dangerous?  There are at least three missing - Amy Bradley, Max DeVries, & Natalee Holloway.

In my "simple brain" that should scare the pants off Aruba.  How many times can one person confess to horrible things and keep walking free?  How many times can a nation blame the family or say it was insurance fraud?  Who wants to vacation in such a place?  I'd rather go to a place known for it's warm weather, great beaches, and hospitality.    

Look at the efforts to find Marlies van der Kouwe and return her to family.  Will there ever be resolution for the family of Natalee Holloway?

I have hopes that whatever is going on, even if I do not know the details, will result in peace for Natalees family and friends.

just my humble opinions

[Rob]

HIGHER UPS

Is all so apparent to me that van der Straaten and others in th polis force recovered Natalee. I've been yammerin' about this for over three years. I know I sound like a broken record, really I do.

This case was always about more than Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes. It was always about the corrupt dirty police.

Now where the heck is Natalee? Give her back and were one in the blink of an eye. They repair their image and we all move on.

[MumInOhio]

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I will ask the question...

If all this that has been posted since November 13th - Kermit's post - is so sensitive and can harm the investigation, why wasn't it been stopped?

[wreck]

Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..

I don't either.
Yes, I have thought Natalee was found by the Persistence back in late December. As far as disagreeing with Hotshot -- I don't ever remember that until VERY recently. From the time I made my feelings known early in the year -- I have pretty much kept quiet. I believed that the FBI and the family knew very well (and had the evidence). I thought they were merely setting a snare for the guilty. Kermit's posts woke me up! It appears now that the FBI was NOT given EVERYTHING until very recently. That is where I am troubled. As for CAPS, I really don't have much of an opinion -- I don't read Shango. He may very well be on to useful evidence that ties EVERYTHING together -- I don't know. The whole timing issue of Tim Miller being lured off the Persistence has me worried. I hope the "pond" is not another diversion.

[Blonde]

Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?

Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose.

[ldstlou]

We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?

CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

I hope someone finds the pics. Maybe it will finally put an end to slamming the men and women of the Persistance who worked so hard to find Natalee and sacrificed so much.

Lisa I have always respected  your opinion and posts, but we are all entitled to our own.  This is mine, subject to change, as new information arises.

Kyle’s own posts have what has started the scrutiny…Below is a classic example.  From reading his posts I found he lurked constantly, probably still is.
 
If you read the thread that Texasmom posted the link to on page 24 of the previous thread you will see posts that some smart Monkeys commented on Kyle’s change of demeanor in his posts.  This was IMO when he started asking case related questions, mentioned seeing the Kalpoes, and “we met with Patrick”.  He also mentions that he was on the East coast trying to sell some photos around the time of the Dateline show.

He also mentions on at least 4 occasions that things are going to get interesting! Also mentions the pond being “searched”, back in February…Did he misspeak, again…or is it one of the things referred to below.

Granted we each take different things from these posts, but if Kyle is as clever as he thinks he is, he should have found another means of communication other than an open forum. Private emails and phone calls are two things that come to mind…heck by his own admissions he was in the States…ALE couldn’t track him…maybe the FBI…LOL


Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
on: March 03, 2008, 01:12:57 PM OE

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

Mum, you know I totally respect you and your opinon too. We're Buckeye fans!! You know we rock!! lol

I don't have any problem at all either with exploring every avenue in Natalee's case. Have we ever in our lives seen a conspiracy since JFK? And there IS a cover up and there was a conspiracy to hind the facts and the truth. As Aruba implodes upon itself, and the rats start ratting each other out..so to speak..Beth, Dave Jug, Jug's friends, the Monkeys, we will finally be vindicated!! I was so excited about this mornings article!! The truth is finally coming out.

What bothers me, is keeping a fair playing field. We have always kept our integrity in the search for the truth unlike Aruba and another board we all know of..(hint RU)

I went to Jug about the allegations, he said no way!! It ticked him off it was even being discussed. I asked if I had permission to quote him, he agreed. When I did, I was attacked..and really...so was Jug with comments like.."since when does Jug speak for Beth". Not everyone has to agree, but if Jug says "No way" I believe him...no need to attack the messenger.

The other thing that really bothers me is private e-mails being posted publicaly without permission. I was taught here...cause ya know I didn't know the rules when I started!!! lol...that private e-mails and im's were not to be posted. In addition, we really don't know the context of those private coorespondences. This is what makes me most suspect and upset about the theory. Does that make sense?

[Blonde]

This one?

Yes Klaas, thank you so much, that's it.  Do you also have the one of the recent family wedding where he was wearing a grey suit?

Remember Kyle did not want to give his name.


oceanexploration
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 211
           Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #623 on: Today at 04:00:07 PM »   Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

Quote from: SS on November 19, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.620

[ldstlou]

Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..

I agree with your sentiments keepthefaith!

Here are the things that sound like some people that have tried to derail the case -

Blame the family for derailing the investigation and it's failure to find Natalee.  

Blame the family and insinuate there was some kind of family conspiracy / coverup with regards to Natalee, her friends, famililies, and her reason for being in Aruba.

Link the family to AmSouth, metals, and other financial involvement.  Insinuate that they were involved in some kind of wrongdoing.

Blame the searchers and insinuate there was some kind of searcher conspiracy / coverup with regards to their efforts to find Natalee.  

Why aren't these same people demanding action from Aruba on this latest coverup / conspiracy?  Why focus only on the searchers?

Were the distractions attempts to recover body parts that were dumped years ago?  Maybe a piece in the pond, moko, SA, and who knows how many other places.  Divert & divide.  No body parts / no case.  How many body parts would be needed to make a case that she is dead, she ain't coming back no more?  How many body parts to make a case that Joran was the last one seen with her?  Anyone see Natalee after the Kalpoes dropper JVDS and NH off (anywhere)?  

If she's been in that easy to find location for years, why didn't Aruba find her with the F-16's?  Has the F-16 data been made public?  I'm thinking the use of that data may have shortened the identification of all those targets.  IMHO, many targets remain.

Aruba is an island surrounded by water.  How many are still out there in Aruba?  How many will continue to wash up bone by bone on Aruban beaches?  Was Natalee the tip of the iceberg?

What is Aruba doing to fight corruption on the island?  It doesn't do any good to talk about crime, coverups, and corruption if you choose to remain silent and do nothing to fix it or work to make it better.  I think restoring paradise may take a while, but it is a worthy goal for any community.  

Is there a special US State Department (or the like) warning for tourists going to countries known to engage in human trafficking, drug related killings/rapes/murders, related corruption/coverup, or are just dangerous?  There are at least three missing - Amy Bradley, Max DeVries, & Natalee Holloway.

In my "simple brain" that should scare the pants off Aruba.  How many times can one person confess to horrible things and keep walking free?  How many times can a nation blame the family or say it was insurance fraud?  Who wants to vacation in such a place?  I'd rather go to a place known for it's warm weather, great beaches, and hospitality.    

Look at the efforts to find Marlies van der Kouwe and return her to family.  Will there ever be resolution for the family of Natalee Holloway?

I have hopes that whatever is going on, even if I do not know the details, will result in peace for Natalees family and friends.

just my humble opinions

wow Whiskeygirl...great post!!!

[ldstlou]

Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?

Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose.

Do you want my opinion?  I can give it to you but you probably already know it is.
I think the biggest point is we don't know! This was supposed to be "proof" that Beth agreed...I say Really? It gave me more questions than it did proof and that is why I called Jug.

[Magnolia]

Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?

Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose.

Blonde, I think if you read Hotshot's post carefully, those are just Hotshot's
opinions.  I believe that Beth would contact Red if she was upset about
Kermit's post.
I admitted several pages back that I posted the question about Kyle's
baby.  It was my way of saying Can we believe anything he says?
I was very disappointed in Kyle.  I had believed in him.

[Blonde]

 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.

 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  

To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

Well with so many smart monkeys it wouldn't be had to find this out.
Did Kyle have a baby?
Did Kyle name her Natalee?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kyle Kingman’s Experience
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager
Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
(Oil & Energy industry)

October 2008 — Present (3 months)

Manager
Kingman Geophysical Solutions
(Oil & Energy industry)

May 2004 — October 2008 (4 years 6 months)
-snipped-


http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[MumInOhio]

Lisa...Perfect sense...I have tried to read it all and did read all your posts to Kermit.

Lots of posts have made sense on both sides...Really not sure what to think!

Kyle's posts have me really confused.

[the big hammer]

Statement Issued On Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Police head hindered Holloway investigation


Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island’s Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate’s disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.
________________________________________________________________

Very clear and unmistakeable accusation here, provided with corroborated attribution and pointing directly to a named individual -- in this case former Aruba polis chief Jan van der Stratten.

This represents REAL movement in this case, and should leave door open for charges which we have talked about here for years:

Obstruction of Justice
Failure to Perform
Police and Judicial Misconduct.

With a statement like this out there now, it appears that an investigation into a coverup MUST be done.

See the link to Greta wire (if this has been posted earlier -- apologies).

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

.
 

[ldstlou]

HIGHER UPS

Is all so apparent to me that van der Straaten and others in th polis force recovered Natalee. I've been yammerin' about this for over three years. I know I sound like a broken record, really I do.

This case was always about more than Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes. It was always about the corrupt dirty police.

Now where the heck is Natalee? Give her back and were one in the blink of an eye. They repair their image and we all move on.

I agree too Rob!!! within that first week...or was it the 10th of June? No way they would have been so confident from the get-go with the cover-up unless they had Natalee early on. We have always suspected Natalee was found early, and then disposed of permanetly.

[Lala'sMom]

Finally!!  I was thinking everyone was going to gloss over one of the most important things that Greta got from Joran in her interview....the implication of polis in this case!!  Joran names two police officers that looked the other way and claims they were paid by Paulus to do so and we have spent days on cage contents that at this point in time can never be proven were ever there without jeopardizing other things in the works.