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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08  (Read 301856 times)
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Blonde
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« Reply #560 on: December 04, 2008, 03:43:20 PM »

Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   

I never have seen the obituary in Germany ..
Only on the aruba web site obituary..

I do not think it was ever listed in Germany..
Do you have a link please


With deep sympathy we announce the death of:

Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann
17 May 1955 - 18 Jun 2005
 

 

Funeral took place in Germany

http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html
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Blonde
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« Reply #561 on: December 04, 2008, 03:46:12 PM »

Gezz Klaas
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« Reply #562 on: December 04, 2008, 03:46:29 PM »

Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, in other words, a dead witness is no witness.
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Edward
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« Reply #563 on: December 04, 2008, 03:47:07 PM »

The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #564 on: December 04, 2008, 03:47:11 PM »

Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.

I think Paulus testifies to this in one of his statements about visiting the back twice. 

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately 08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30. I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the
tournament.
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Frank
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« Reply #565 on: December 04, 2008, 03:47:12 PM »

Anna,

I may have agreed with you in the past, but things are a little different now. We have Joran broadcast all over the world twice since then.

Now, sex-trafficking/Aruba are on people's minds and as JQK has said, it may be impossible for Aruba to recover as long as this is still going on.

I wish one of these savages would step up and protect the NEXT victim. I mean who will take responsibility when Joran kills again?

We have a moral obligation to do what we can to ensure these savages don't harm anyone else again.

Not one of these adults including Tacopina finds it horrific enough to say for the good of others, that the "sick" joran needs to be put away. It's so depraved.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #566 on: December 04, 2008, 03:47:53 PM »

Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, in other words, a dead witness is no witness.

There is another person that worked at that bank also...Simian.
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Anna
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« Reply #567 on: December 04, 2008, 03:48:12 PM »

Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, that does sound like something Paulus would do.  He would need to verify she was working that day and then could use her name at will as she was not around to dispute it.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #568 on: December 04, 2008, 03:49:36 PM »

Blondie..
The web site you post for Ruth is a funeral home located on the fine isalnd of aruba.
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Anna
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« Reply #569 on: December 04, 2008, 03:51:56 PM »

Anna,

I may have agreed with you in the past, but things are a little different now. We have Joran broadcast all over the world twice since then.

Now, sex-trafficking/Aruba are on people's minds and as JQK has said, it may be impossible for Aruba to recover as long as this is still going on.

I wish one of these savages would step up and protect the NEXT victim. I mean who will take responsibility when Joran kills again?

We have a moral obligation to do what we can to ensure these savages don't harm anyone else again.

Not one of these adults including Tacopina finds it horrific enough to say for the good of others, that the "sick" joran needs to be put away. It's so depraved.



Not sure what part of that you think I disagree with Frank, but whatever.

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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Edward
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« Reply #570 on: December 04, 2008, 03:53:27 PM »


http://www.mementomori.net/06079.html

Listed on the very same web site..
Did PitBull end up in Germany ? 

Anyways..My point remains.. They could have shipped Natalee off the island in a coffin sealed. especially if there is no family at the other end to receive Ruth. The coffin would just be buried.. Her and Natalee together forever.
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Edward
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« Reply #571 on: December 04, 2008, 03:54:38 PM »

Have the coffin dug up and prove it is just Ruth in there.
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« Reply #572 on: December 04, 2008, 03:56:27 PM »

$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #573 on: December 04, 2008, 04:02:41 PM »

Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005 11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Good finds Janet!! Is Beth FINALLY going to receive some vindication??!!

Interesting they are throwing Straaten under the bus.  This could back fire on those that still have much to hide.  I can't wait to see who eats whom in this mess.


I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... he has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where involved that led up to the happenings of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all who are involved in the coverup in the Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

IMO

Janet
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« Reply #574 on: December 04, 2008, 04:04:30 PM »

Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005 11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Good finds Janet!! Is Beth FINALLY going to receive some vindication??!!

Interesting they are throwing Straaten under the bus.  This could back fire on those that still have much to hide.  I can't wait to see who eats whom in this mess.


I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... he has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where involved that led up to the happenings of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all who are involved in the coverup in the Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

IMO

Janet

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« Reply #575 on: December 04, 2008, 04:08:21 PM »

$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Maybe it was a huge money transaction.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #576 on: December 04, 2008, 04:08:30 PM »

Anna,

I may have agreed with you in the past, but things are a little different now. We have Joran broadcast all over the world twice since then.

Now, sex-trafficking/Aruba are on people's minds and as JQK has said, it may be impossible for Aruba to recover as long as this is still going on.

I wish one of these savages would step up and protect the NEXT victim. I mean who will take responsibility when Joran kills again?

We have a moral obligation to do what we can to ensure these savages don't harm anyone else again.

Not one of these adults including Tacopina finds it horrific enough to say for the good of others, that the "sick" joran needs to be put away. It's so depraved.



Frank ... Natalee Holloway's loving stepfather concurs.  It is just a matter of time before another "Natalee" become the victim of Joran van der Sloot.

Janet
______


NANCY GRACE
Remains of Young White Female Found in Reno Field; Natalee Holloway Case Update
Aired February 15, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: Well, Holly, I`ll tell you, it`s very disappointing. But it doesn`t surprise me. I`ll tell you what really made me sick today to be honest with you is to see his U.S. attorney, Joe Tacopina, whoever, who has been kind of hiding for the last week because he didn`t know what was going to happen all of a sudden come on and he`s all over the TV now. And he is just saying, you know, with a smirk on his face, which just it makes me sick.

But, yes, hey I told you so, nothing was going to happen. When he knows Joran is a time bomb just waiting to -- you know, to blow up.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

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« Reply #577 on: December 04, 2008, 04:09:45 PM »

I agree. Paulus has surely told a fib...

10:00 Leave work for CMB (bank). Half hour ride. Arrive at 10:30. Line is too long.
10:30 Leave bank. Half hour ride. Heading back to work? Arrive at 11:00.
3:00 Leave work for CMB (bank). Half hour ride. Arrive at 3:30. Make deposit.
3:30ish Leave bank. Head home to greet children from school.

Two hours of his day dedicated to depositing 500 florins (275 USD). Laughable.

Can anyone picture this conversation:
Paulus: Charles, I have a unique situation on my hands and need your help...
C Croes: What can I do to help? Just say the words...
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« Reply #578 on: December 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM »

$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

I've always felt his bank tale was bogus.  Paulus went to a great bit of detail on his statement.
Was it to explain why he might have been seen in that area?  Or was it proactive to explain why he was out of the office on that day in case he was seen by a witness?   
Why would it be so important for a man to exert that much effort to deposit such a small sum of money?
 
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« Reply #579 on: December 04, 2008, 04:10:04 PM »

$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Exactly Hammer this never made sense to me.  Why make 2 trips to the bank to depost $275? The way Joran was spending money I'd think having cash around the house would be a necessity.  It's BS, the deposit was an excuse to either make another transaction or to speak to someone.
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