Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[Helen Back]

For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???

Yes

Well, GOOD.  I'm glad that is settled.

Thanks, Wreck, for cutting right to the chase.
 

[wreck]

For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???

Yes

Amen to that too!



Hotshot - there has been a lot of discord in the cage for the past few weeks.  You have mentioned that you know of people who are upset and sick about it.  I know many monkeys who are also upset about it all.  There have been many accusations and many denials, but only one source seems to be providing any documentation to support claims.  Perhaps, the time has come for you to share what you know with the rest of us.  As a group, we have spent hours, days, months, and years trying to make sense of Natalee's disappearance.  It's disheartening to know that there are monkeys among us that have answers to the questions that are frustrating us.  Since you do personally know those who were in charge of the Persistence venture, perhaps now is the time to enlighten the rest of us.

[Tamikosmom]

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______

Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

[Kermit]

Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

Hotshot - do you know John Silvetti personally?

Hotshot - How do you know this information?

Hotshot to Kyle:
 Hi there, and good to see you here at the SM site.  It was me who sent that cryptic message to your blog, sorry about all that.  Its just one of the things that we dealt with here early on in the case.  It looked to be someone in the know.  You can take it down if you wish, I just thought it might be of some help.  But once again, I praise the work you guys are doing, and wish I could be there myself to help with the search.  My prayers are with all of you for a great outcome.  Hey, remember, there really are pirates out there!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2429.msg315194#msg315194

Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240



Hotshot -
 You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.

BUT then
Hotshot agrees with what Kermit has posted:
the persistance did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

[Frank]

Rudy Croes is a politician, and they go with the way the wind blows and hopefully are a little ahead of the wind.

Rudy may be reading the tea leaves and wants to premptively get ahead of what's coming. I don't think this is a giant coordinated conspiracy. It is a lot of sewn together CYA's but if someone in Holland is interested, no doubt people in Aruba don't want to be on the wrong end of someone's wrath.

And that changes and could be changing. If Rudy Croes backs off, it's because whoever holds sway at the moment, is asking him to. If not, maybe the Aruba budget has been moved to someone else's P&L.

[Kermit]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

[Keepthefaith]

All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable???

what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form

I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??

well th check made is done and no way out...they got to prosecute. This will not be done by Hans Mos...If he love his Job and safe his skin, he got to prosecute otherwise Paters will step in and clean the mess

Is this a new prosecuter??Do the contents of the cage hold any bearing to this case to your knowledge??

if they want to safe the Dutch court and for what they represent in high court in Den Haige, this prosecuter got to start cleaning up the Mess. The cat is out of the bag of the Minister of justice....lol, How is he going to say that it did not happend....Rudy want his court in Aruba and not part of this new central court.

Thanx.Starting to understand the Judicial aspect a little better!As we've been going along there has been lots of converstaion back and forth regarding the contents of the Persistence,the pictures,as well as the contents of the cage.I have went back and forth regarding what has transpired.To your knowledge does the anything involving that cage,and or contents have anything to do with Natalee's case.If you are unable to answer that is understood.As Hotshot has told me i must wait and see.LOL.I'm Keepingthefaith Hotshot;).I've also been wondering about the other 2 witnesses and when we'll hear of them..TIA.If you can answer...

Keepthefaith

Not sure if you read Caps????

[Elaine]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Thanks Kermit!

[Lifesong]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Then it is my most fervent prayer that she was surreptiously retrieved and brought home to a quiet, long overdue, private memorial service with the ones who knew and loved her, that 'dummy' evidence was placed in the cage for ALE to retrieve and hide/destroy while filmed by the ROV as part of a sting set up by the FBI, turned over to the state dept., now negotiating for the corruption to be exposed.

Best possible resolution at this point.  Let the ones who covered up uncover and all involved in both the crimes and coverups be brought to justice.

That's my prayer.  It's not at all what I believe to be true.

[Keepthefaith]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Thank you for answering so many questions when one is raised!I don't think a Monkey can ask for anything more.

[johan555]

Kermit
Are the underwater photos made by proffesionals ?

[Kermit]

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______

Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

Thank you Janet.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." 1 John 4:1



ARUBA - GIVE US NATALEE BACK!

[Kermit]

Kermit
Are the underwater photos made by proffesionals ?

It was the ROV filming and screenshots made from that video tape.

[Kermit]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Thank you for answering so many questions when one is raised!I don't think a Monkey can ask for anything more.

You are most welcome.

I felt that everyone deserved the respect that we all gave to Natalee and her family to know the truth.

[blah]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

What experts??

[Magnolia]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

You are a good frog and I appreciate you very much.

[SS]

Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Kermit - can you please tell us who the experts are?

[Buckeye]

A few thoughts:

Anna: Enjoyed the review of the police union postings.  My favorite was their threatening to strike , if inspector Angela was brought over to review them.  I believe there is a prosecutor Angela, on Aruba currently.

Janet: Don't forget Beth's comment regarding Pesc??? (The AHATA guy that wound up in Palm Beach) shaking his head yes regarding a cover up.

EuroRobert and Caesu: Thanks so much for the Dutch postings and political updates.

When Paulus was discussed, regarding talking with the boys, in the "first few days", he discussed the law regarding criminal charges.  There is a Dutch phrase that starts with a W...I forget...but...if your kid only dropped a girl, at the beach, I doubt the discussion would be regarding the "W" Dutch word.

I know noone and don't know who I believe or what my final opinion is...but IIRC, Kermit never said he was posting Beth's emails.  I never read anything about Beth until someone accused Kermit.  Beth's name was brought up by the accuser.  Might want to be more careful.

Don't know what I think of Silvetti, et al...however:
Tax laws do not permit writing off of time.  Expenses can be written off when donated to a legal non profit (needs a special number.. 503c??)...I suppose the expenses could have been written as a donation to TES, but not just to search for Natalee.  Now, if there could also be a business use of the ship, etc, I believe the expenses could be written off as unreimbursed business expenses.  Tax law is sticky.  Personally, I would attempt to establish a "business" reason for the trip to try and recoup expenses...even if my main purpose was "charitable"...but that's me...

[Anna]

I thought the only information we ever had from any experts was that the fabric didn't match Natalee's blouse.


Quote:









Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.


FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Click here for photos from the case.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar in the Aruban capital of Oranjestad with a Dutch college student and two Surinamese brothers. Extensive searches have found no trace of her.

Earlier this month, judges rejected an attempt to arrest the Dutch student, Joran Van der Sloot, for a third time in her disappearance. He was released due to insufficient evidence the first two times he was arrested.

Aruban prosecutors had sought to detain him based on hidden-camera recordings captured by a Dutch TV crime show. In the video, Van der Sloot said Holloway collapsed on the beach after they left the bar and he called a friend to dump her body at sea.

Van der Sloot has said he was lying when he made those statement and insists he had no involvement in her death.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html


Fabric found in Aruban crab trap doesn't match Holloway's clothing
Posted by Birmingham News February 26, 2008 3:26 PM

Fabric found in a crab trap off the Aruban coast doesn't match a blouse worn by Natalee Holloway when she disappeared, officials said today.

The fabric was recovered by a dive crew last month and tested by the FBI, which was holding fabric samples matching Holloway's top, according to a release from the Aruban prosecutor's office.

Holloway, then 18, disappeared in May of 2005 on a trip to Aruba with fellow graduates of Mountain Brook High School. Soon afterward, her family circulated a picture of her taken at the beach with friends on her last night wearing a blue, green and white halter top.

The news is just the latest blow to what had been a renewed effort to solve the case. Earlier this month, a Dutch appeals court refused to let Aruban prosecutors re-arrest their chief suspect on the basis of an undercover television video. Joran van der Sloot had told a friend in the video that he watched Holloway die on the beach and asked a friend to dispose of her body in the water.

Hannah Wolfson
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/02/fabric_found_in_aruban_crab_tr.html

[johan555]

Kermit
I do not understand the following:
Because you told that someone want to sell the pics to a magazine, but i think that is impossible
I've seen the underwater photos and  they are terrible ,low resolution and unsharp  etc .
Maybe they have some with a better quality ,do you have them and can you post them ?

Proffesional photographers use always a special (PS)correction program  for underwater pics .

it works like this :