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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08  (Read 67175 times)
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cajun miracle
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« Reply #200 on: December 04, 2008, 12:03:27 AM »

I have a feeling that Kyle was peddling more than just the
few pictures that we have seen.  Those few would not
be worth showing to the people he said he spoke with.

Yep Magnolia. I agree.
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« Reply #201 on: December 04, 2008, 12:03:28 AM »


Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet



I think you're right Janet, and with our tax system, non-profit work would have greatly reduced the amount of corporate taxes that would have normally been paid.  So, they saved a lot of money by doing the search and so in effect, they paid themselves.  I also remember, though, that in one of his arguments with Kermit, Kyle said that he did donate part or all of his work and that the search actually cost him an additional $15,000.  I can't begin to explain how he would come up with that.  Perhaps Kyle was also reducing his personal income taxes by working for a non-profit effort or by doing work "in kind".  I have no idea on that one.
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« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 12:07:37 AM »

I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
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« Reply #203 on: December 04, 2008, 12:10:04 AM »

There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!

 

A picture is beginning to emerge regarding the players in "fixed game" and ... I do not like it.

Janet




Eduardo Mansur is the founder of Aruba Search and Rescue, a dive team.  There are pictures of Eduardo standing with Tim Trahan and Tim Miller on the Persistence.  I just don't know how far back they are.
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billb
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« Reply #204 on: December 04, 2008, 12:10:17 AM »

There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.
Does seem staged. But for what purpose?

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!
If it was staged.....why?
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« Reply #205 on: December 04, 2008, 12:12:35 AM »

This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 12:16:45 AM by CBB » Logged

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« Reply #206 on: December 04, 2008, 12:15:41 AM »

On the video, it says evidence from the trap was given to the FBI.

It doesn't say when or by whom.
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #207 on: December 04, 2008, 12:17:13 AM »

Kyle has videos on YouTube of the search. I just watched 2 of them, but there are more................

Before I go through them all, has anybody else done this?

I've watched them...they are the same as seen on the Persistence site.
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« Reply #208 on: December 04, 2008, 12:17:47 AM »

I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
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« Reply #209 on: December 04, 2008, 12:18:19 AM »

Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...
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« Reply #210 on: December 04, 2008, 12:18:50 AM »

I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?
If Kyle was still a "pawn" at that time, they would have to go through the motions of "making a concerted effort". Kyle said that Silvetti destroyed "everything Natalee" from the Persistence when he arrived home.

I think the process was gradual but ... I believe Kyle had clued into what was going on concerning collusion between Silvetti and the ALE when he realized that the Arubans were fully in charge of the chain of custody regarding the contents of the cage.

In the beginning ... I contend that Kyle was naive and ... truly believed that the joint Persistence/ALE search for the remains of Natalee Holloway was a mutual effort.

Janet

++++++


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM


Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857
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« Reply #211 on: December 04, 2008, 12:18:52 AM »

This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

The above video is from the MSNBC story. I don't know who was filming.
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« Reply #212 on: December 04, 2008, 12:20:07 AM »

I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.

I'll look as silly as you want me as long as Natalee is brought home to rest in peace.I think Monkey's spend there time wisely.
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« Reply #213 on: December 04, 2008, 12:22:32 AM »

Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...

Hotshot - I'm so baffled by all of this, I really don't know which way to turn.  That's why I haven't been contributing much.
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« Reply #214 on: December 04, 2008, 12:22:59 AM »


Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet



I think you're right Janet, and with our tax system, non-profit work would have greatly reduced the amount of corporate taxes that would have normally been paid.  So, they saved a lot of money by doing the search and so in effect, they paid themselves.  I also remember, though, that in one of his arguments with Kermit, Kyle said that he did donate part or all of his work and that the search actually cost him an additional $15,000.  I can't begin to explain how he would come up with that.  Perhaps Kyle was also reducing his personal income taxes by working for a non-profit effort or by doing work "in kind".  I have no idea on that one.

No idea.  No one has provided any evidence that John Silvetti made money on the search for Natalee Holloway.  Can someone explain how that happened?

I do recall reading (Kyle wrote somewhere) that John and Louis donated the resources needed to fund the search from their own pockets.  IIRC, the search was made for a fraction of what it would have cost a commercial venture.  This was due in part by the generous contributions of many involved - time & other resources.

Somehow, I don't equate donating time and effort with 'reducing personal income taxes'.  I do a lot of volunteer work and it has NEVER reduced my income taxes.

What is a lot of money?  How much is that for the sale of some video?

Has anyone ever been able to FORCE ALE to provide any answers?  Provide good answers about any piece of evidence in this case?  Does anyone think Silvetti is a miracle worker and has that ability and refused to use it during the search for Natalee and the cage contents?
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« Reply #215 on: December 04, 2008, 12:24:15 AM »

This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

The footage of Dave tugs at the heart.  Why would someone do that?  If that was an elaborate scheme to get Tim away from Aruba...then these people are more disgusting than could have ever been imagined.
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« Reply #216 on: December 04, 2008, 12:25:14 AM »

Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...

Hotshot - I'm so baffled by all of this, I really don't know which way to turn.  That's why I haven't been contributing much.

Well, Darn, Klaas! You know more about this case than anyone I know of! How am I supposed to cut to the chase without asking you and getting an answer, hmmmmm?

Figure it out real quick, won't you? 

And then post your answer, of course!
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« Reply #217 on: December 04, 2008, 12:25:40 AM »


Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet



I think you're right Janet, and with our tax system, non-profit work would have greatly reduced the amount of corporate taxes that would have normally been paid.  So, they saved a lot of money by doing the search and so in effect, they paid themselves.  I also remember, though, that in one of his arguments with Kermit, Kyle said that he did donate part or all of his work and that the search actually cost him an additional $15,000.  I can't begin to explain how he would come up with that.  Perhaps Kyle was also reducing his personal income taxes by working for a non-profit effort or by doing work "in kind".  I have no idea on that one.

No idea.  No one has provided any evidence that John Silvetti made money on the search for Natalee Holloway.  Can someone explain how that happened?

I do recall reading (Kyle wrote somewhere) that John and Louis donated the resources needed to fund the search from their own pockets.  IIRC, the search was made for a fraction of what it would have cost a commercial venture.  This was due in part by the generous contributions of many involved - time & other resources.

Somehow, I don't equate donating time and effort with 'reducing personal income taxes'.  I do a lot of volunteer work and it has NEVER reduced my income taxes.

What is a lot of money?  How much is that for the sale of some video?

Has anyone ever been able to FORCE ALE to provide any answers?  Provide good answers about any piece of evidence in this case?  Does anyone think Silvetti is a miracle worker and has that ability and refused to use it during the search for Natalee and the cage contents?


If i'm correct i think the question being posed is how are you donating all this time and money if your going broke??Correct me if i'm wrong..Very good questions..
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« Reply #218 on: December 04, 2008, 12:25:58 AM »

I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.
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« Reply #219 on: December 04, 2008, 12:26:47 AM »

There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!

 

A picture is beginning to emerge regarding the players in "fixed game" and ... I do not like it.

Janet




Eduardo Mansur is the founder of Aruba Search and Rescue, a dive team.  There are pictures of Eduardo standing with Tim Trahan and Tim Miller on the Persistence.  I just don't know how far back they are.

They should be in the photo bucket of the poster.  Who posted them?
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
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