Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[SS]

Well, SS, this is confusing, isn't it?  Joran's one bloody sneaker was in his room.  However, the second sneaker can't be both in the cage and in the pond.  I do see the picture of a similar sneaker in the cage, but I have not seen a picture of the sneaker that was supposed to be recovered from the pond.  So, if I have to choose, I believe what I see in the picture of the cage.  If other evidence is provided, then I might change my mind, but this is what I see now.

AZ - the witness saw Urine with one sneaker after he had just reportedly lost one in the pond.  If a bloody sneaker was found, as Beth was told, that would be the sneaker that he was wearing when the witness saw him.  My thought is that the bloody sneaker was later taken by the Edlers and added to other evidence like the denim skirt that was put in the cage.  The cage photographs were taken on December 29th and the sneaker is there in the picture.  Manserat Pond wasn't drained until March.  Caps claims a sneaker was found.  ALE has the pond evidence, I believe.  We need Caps to clarify that.  If we had the sneaker from the cage and the sneaker from Manserat, we could nail ALE with the cover up.  If we could prove that the sneaker in the cage did belong to Urine, we could prove a cover up involving the cage.  This is why I have been asking about a right show or left shoe in the cage and whether the witness specified a missing right shoe or left shoe.

[AZLady]

Janet, I agree.  The choice is to sacrifice van der Stratten and PVDS or to flush the island down the toilet, basically giving up any of their independence and clearing out the whole lot of them.  This won't happen, so van der Stratten is taking the hit.  However, my guess is that we should watch in future for a fattening of Uncle Jan's bank account.

[Hotshot]

The war between Van der Stratten and Croes was probably a while in the making.  Maybe Croes decided that the only way to close this case was to offer a scapegoat.  But, this particular accusation against Van der Stratten also covers the Minister of Justice with the same mud because he is/was the ultimate party responsible for the actions of the police.  That is what puzzle me here.  I'm beginning to think that Croes knows he's going down, and he's going to take the rest of them with him. 

 
Next up bring Karin Jannsen into the corruption loop. She knew the evidence, she had to agree on delaying the arrest of J2K, she would have had to sign off on the security guards' arrest. It's now time to bring her fat ass into the spotlight.

It would really be nice to see Vo(king) , Smit, and Wit, start talking.  This whole thing can really get interesting fast.... Hmmm, Dompig would be a good one to bring in also.

[Tamikosmom]

Buckshot,

Good advice. While I think the cage story is important, it's more important to go back to the beginning.

In fact, I think more focus should be on the van der sloot house.

Jan van der straaten "saw" the evidence, meaning, I believe, that he saw Natalee.

Karin Janssen and Jan van der straaten gave Paulus 10 days. This alone is so incredibly sickening.

IMO Frank they've got enough to arrest Van der Straten RIGHT NOW for obstruction of justice. There are two eye witness accounts of Jan saying he couldn't arrest his best friend's son. They need to haul Straten in and let him start spilling the beans and then the house of cards will start to crumble.

Dayhiker

If Beth and Jug had it all figured out within 72 hours ... Jan Van der Straaten most certainly did.

Janet

______

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005

TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/

[Magnolia]

In the middle diving picture above, the diver is using a camera
it seems.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, I agree.  The choice is to sacrifice van der Stratten and PVDS or to flush the island down the toilet, basically giving up any of their independence and clearing out the whole lot of them.  This won't happen, so van der Stratten is taking the hit.  However, my guess is that we should watch in future for a fattening of Uncle Jan's bank account.

AZLady ... I agree 100%.

Janet

[MumInOhio]

OK...Dive capabilities...Saved it without the link...I think he was saying the Arubans didn't have the dive capabilities.

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -

Quote from: ala_gunslinger on March 18, 2008, 12:27:48 PM

Do you remember the name of the coast guard vessel?

Quote Kyle..
No I don't know it, but there's only one that patrold the waters to my knowledge. 

I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site during the dates in question when I returned to Aruba.  I showed why I was curious and it was solid enough to provoke a response from Adolpho Richardson or Hans Mos (I can't remember and am not sure because I got the response 2nd hand). The response was remarkable and simply: "we do not have dive capability".  This odd response raised a few questions in my mind.

[AZLady]

In the middle diving picture above, the diver is using a camera
it seems.

I can't really tell from the pic, but I would logically believe the divers had at least one camera with them.  After all, this was the initial dive in which they were to closer investigate the cage and contents.  This had to be documented, thus a camera had to be used.  Probably a high res underwater camera that could take quite detailed pics under those conditions.

[SS]

I just noticed something....

The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th.  The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.

Something isn't adding up.

Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th.  Who is next to that cage on December 30th?  If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence?  The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage.  This is not what we were told.

[Frank]

I really disagree, I don't think van der straaten would agree to be a lamb anywhere. They've already admitted what they've done, many times.

Nobody wants to touch this case, and until somebody with passion or power, just one person, decides to honestly put an end to this, they can tell all the stories they want and it won't matter.

Aruba is to Holland what Joran is to Paulus, and you can see how well the "protection" is going.

[Dayhiker]

ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen. They need to bring the whole damned house down, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.

Dayhiker

It is not going to happen!!

I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... Straaten has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation in the first ten days and ... allowing all crucial evidence required to bring the suspects to justice to be destroyed.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where  involved in the events that led up to the happenings  of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all those within the Dutch/Aruba administration who are involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

Janet

You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.

Keep the faith!

[MumInOhio]

OK... Thanks Kyle


Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
on: March 19, 2008, 03:21:31 PM

After the Jan 7th dive, I was scheduled to take a short break on land, staying at the Holiday Inn between Jan 9th and returning to the Persistence on Jan 14th.  I had been working steadily since Dec 15th and needed a break.  It was a coincidence I was around to be walking the beach to observe what I saw with the vessel at or near the site on the 11th and 12th of Jan.  I don't know for certain if there is anything to it.  When asked if they were diving the site, they replied: "we don't have dive capabilities".

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
on: March 19, 2008, 04:21:47 PM
The Coast Guard is not the same as the Aruba police dive division.  It seemed very odd to be told they don't have dive capabilities, especially after they told us it would take about 10-14 days to get a Dutch forensic team on site.  This was 12 and 13 days later.  Coincidence perhaps? 

Janet, you aren't even a bad dream, let alone a nightmare.  We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

[AZLady]

OK...Dive capabilities...Saved it without the link...I think he was saying the Arubans didn't have the dive capabilities.

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -

Quote from: ala_gunslinger on March 18, 2008, 12:27:48 PM

Do you remember the name of the coast guard vessel?

Quote Kyle..
No I don't know it, but there's only one that patrold the waters to my knowledge. 

I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site during the dates in question when I returned to Aruba.  I showed why I was curious and it was solid enough to provoke a response from Adolpho Richardson or Hans Mos (I can't remember and am not sure because I got the response 2nd hand). The response was remarkable and simply: "we do not have dive capability".  This odd response raised a few questions in my mind.

I would hope it raised a few questions.   I, as a lowly internet *******, question the meaning of the phrase "dive capability" as regards any boat in Aruba (an island where diving is a popular pastime).  As an oceanographer, I'm sure OE was more than skeptical when told the Dutch Coast Guard didn't have "dive capabilities."  That's just more than ludicrous--it's like talking in another language.

[wreck]

I don't know,--- there just seems to be so much "hopping" right now. Something is is not quite right.
-- Joran is spouting off -- implicating himself (but short of murder)
-- The whole Persistence "veracity" issues.
-- Revelations about Tim Miller (and Dave) being lured off during the sea cage episode
-- The corresponding appearance of "caps" on the scene
-- Revelations of new "witnesses"
-- Rudy Croes blaming Van Der Stratten
-- Kelley back on Greta with requests for arrests
-- Kermit's revelations backed with pictures and e-mails (yet being castigated)

I just have a gut feeling Aruba is STILL trying to manipulate the outcome.
 

[blah]

OK...Dive capabilities...Saved it without the link...I think he was saying the Arubans didn't have the dive capabilities.

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -

Quote from: ala_gunslinger on March 18, 2008, 12:27:48 PM

Do you remember the name of the coast guard vessel?

Quote Kyle..
No I don't know it, but there's only one that patrold the waters to my knowledge. 

I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site during the dates in question when I returned to Aruba.  I showed why I was curious and it was solid enough to provoke a response from Adolpho Richardson or Hans Mos (I can't remember and am not sure because I got the response 2nd hand). The response was remarkable and simply: "we do not have dive capability".  This odd response raised a few questions in my mind.

This idiot would probably also like us to believe that a police force that exists on an island nation does not have swimming capabilities or boat driving capabilities

[wreck]

I just noticed something....

The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th.  The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.

Something isn't adding up.

Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th.  Who is next to that cage on December 30th?  If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence?  The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage.  This is not what we were told.

GREAT CATCH!!!

[blah]

Aruba is a nation of liars.  There does not exist one person on that shit hole that is capable of speaking the truth about anything.

[Magnolia]

I just noticed something....

The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th.  The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.

Something isn't adding up.

Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th.  Who is next to that cage on December 30th?  If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence?  The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage.  This is not what we were told.

I noticed the date too, SS.

[Anna]

Janet, I agree.  The choice is to sacrifice van der Stratten and PVDS or to flush the island down the toilet, basically giving up any of their independence and clearing out the whole lot of them.  This won't happen, so van der Stratten is taking the hit.  However, my guess is that we should watch in future for a fattening of Uncle Jan's bank account.

AZLady ... I agree 100%.

Janet

Uncle Jan was pretty well ready to retire in July after Natalee disappeared but you will recall that all this changed with her disappearance and he stayed on in spite of Rudy Croes replacing him with Dompig.

How did he do this?  See my post yesterday of the letter from Eric Zaandam president of the police union stating flatly that the police union will NEVER co-operate in ANY investigation of its own.  That is why I posted that and why I think it very vital to any discussion of vd Straten.  That is how he was right back in even after Rudy replaced him with Dompig who immediately said a confession had been made, etc.

He also stated among other things that no one was going to come in and investigate him even after he left office.  How could he be so sure of this?  So with his impeding retirement anyway, perhaps he is thinking to supplement it in this manner by agreeing to take the fall.  Doubtful anything would actually be done to him anyway as I have readof rape case getting community service in The Netherlands, I kid you not.

[Dayhiker]

I really disagree, I don't think van der straaten would agree to be a lamb anywhere. They've already admitted what they've done, many times.

Nobody wants to touch this case, and until somebody with passion or power, just one person, decides to honestly put an end to this, they can tell all the stories they want and it won't matter.

Aruba is to Holland what Joran is to Paulus, and you can see how well the "protection" is going.

I agree Frank. There is no reason Van der Straten would agree to being smeared internationally as the corrupt lead investigator who covered up the Natalee Holloway case and who could end up in prison. Makes no sense. From what we read, Rudy was responding to Straten calling the police in Aruba corrupt. I hope the all keep talking, tell us more!

All Monkeys be proud. What we've been hammering for 3 1/2 years is now coming to light!