Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[Dayhiker]

You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.

Keep the faith!

Dayhiker

You and I had determined from the getgo that Hans Mos was just going through the motions  to pacify Natalee Holloways family when he had Joran, Deepak and Satish rearrested a little over one year ago.  We were told to have faith by those who posted along side of us.  I now comprehend that those who told us to have faith in Hans Mos ... no longer have faith themselves.

I am sticking with my sense of logic on Aruba's agenda to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a close.  Jan vander Straaten will be Aruba's sacrificial lamb whose obstruction in the first ten days implies crucial evidence was destroyed and ... a just investigation is now impossible.  In other words ... "Case Closed!"

If implication does not start and end for Jan van der Straaten ... the domino effect will be so far reaching ... Chevez can just claim Aruba as another one of his conquests as he strives to take over the Carribean.

IMO

Janet

I believe Van der Straten will not go down without a fight, Janet, and he'll drag anybody he can down with him. That opens up a big ole can of worms for a lot of people on Aruba and others like Jannsen who have fled the island.

If the Dutch investigate, which I believe they will be forced to do, Jan will not be the only one that gets looked at. Ben Vocking, Jannsen, Jacobs, the Dutch judges, all need to be looked at.

Holland and Hans are getting smeared big time in the international media. There are so many corruption angles Aruba is getting hit by right now it boggles the mind. Hans' pathethetic strategy to once again closed the case is, once again, being derailed.

The beauty of all this is barrage is: how can they even think about closing the case now?

[Tamikosmom]

SS

=snipped-

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

-snipped-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

In other words ... there was no "our" divers except Tim Trahan.

An undertaking of this magnitude and ... the diving and the collecting of evidence meant to further justice for Natalee Holloway was entrusted to the enemy.  It just not make sense.

Janet

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[klaasend]

FOXNEWS was just talking about OJ Simpsons conviction and they said if OJ can be convicted then Joran van der Sloot might be next. 

[Anna]

Something is really very wrong with all of this.


December 25th - Kyle sees a skull on his screen and Tim Miller confrims that it looks like a skull.

December 29th - the intial five pictures of the cage were taken.  We have seen those pictures and it looks like a skull.

December 30th - ALE is photographed onboard Persistence.  Additional photographs of the cage are taken.  It's clearly a skull and a shoe.

December 30th - There is a dive to examine the cage and not touch anything.  A major network is part oF the operation.  The cage is empty.  Tim Trehen gives a thumbs down to indicate that the cage is empty.

January 7th - ALE bags the contents of the cage and everything is taken away. We've seen the photographs.


THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

Also how could the ALE divers not know they were being photographed as Mos is clearly seen looking at photographs it has taken before the dive on Jan 7?  They had to know it had that ability and so they were likely on camera.  Did ALE ask not to be photographed during their dive or something?

[AZLady]

Kyle clearly stated that there were multiple ROV dives, but on targets other than the cage.  There were THREE ROV dives on the cage and these were on Dec. 29, Dec. 30 and Jan. 7.  The first ROV dive on Dec. 29 was only ROV, no divers.  The second dive on Dec. 30 was ROV filmed and two Aruban divers and Tim Trahan visually inspected cage.  The third dive was ROV filmed and only Aruban divers participated.

[Dayhiker]

Quote:

ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen. They need to bring the whole damned house down, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.

Dayhiker

It is not going to happen!!



Janet,

I agree this seems orchestrated, especially since van der Straten's neice was posting about the ill treatment of "Uncle Jan" just before Rudy threw him under the bus. 

But I believe that this is going to happen.....the house of cards is beginning to crumble.

Rudy, Jan, Paulus, any agreements they had are not going to hold as they have lost control of the situation.  They are in a "checkmate", since Joran's latest statement.  They either have to investigate the human trafficking angle of Natalee's disappearance or produce evidence of a murder......checkmate.  They can do neither. 

This now falls to the Netherlands to investigate the ARUBA DIRTY POLICE. 

I am writing to the Dutch Embassy in Washington DC to demand an investigation into the

Terrorizing of Natalee Holloway and the Holloway Twitty family by the Corrupt Aruban government.

When I think of them holding this family hostage by withholding the information that they have in their possesion, forcing Beth to apologize to the perpetrators, threatening the family with discontinuing any search effort if they misbehaved, it makes my blood boil and amounts to extortion and terrorism.  Either they are holding Natalee's remains hostage, or she has been sold and is alive and in need of assistance.  Which is it?

What these monsters have done for 3 1/2 years amounts to terrorism.  Withholding information regarding the whereabouts of an American Citizen and torturing her family amount to terrrorism in my book, and that's what I'm calling it.

4200 Linnean Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20008
1-877-DUTCHHELP (phone)
1-877-388-2443 (phone)
202-362-3430 (fax)

Hello, Dutch Embassy?  Your fax machine is ringing..........

Helen Back

Well said Helen. From the same folks that brought black slavery to the Caribbean, they now bring you terrorism!

[Dayhiker]

FOXNEWS was just talking about OJ Simpsons conviction and they said if OJ can be convicted then Joran van der Sloot might be next. 

We know how the Dutch system works, Klaas. If they want something bad enough they'll bend the rules to get it.

[Frank]

None of these cowards believe they will be in any sort of legal jeopardy. The blaming and shaming is how they play this game. They did it with Natalee and Beth.

These Dutch who care so much about appearances get more thin-skinned by being made to look bad than caring at all about Natalee and a crime.

Look what they've already told us. The coordination began with the Tourism Board that backed the idea of attacking Natalee and defending Aruba. Steve Cohen is as guilty as Jan van der straaten in participating in a cover up. It was more like a strategy.

But it's out of control now, and the paranoid don't do well in this situation. I think Natalee haunts them literally and Rudy Croes and Joran van der sloot and Paulus are afraid to turn their heads.

If Joran can go free spinning stories, why don't you think Rudy Croes and jan van der straaten can too?

It's like they are playing power games with each other by revealing bits and pieces of what they already know, like little rounds of ammo to hurt each other.

Every day I still am shocked at the fact that no one person has the courage to stand up and risk everything by ending this nightmare. I still am amazed really.

I never believed people could be that totally without soul. They all know what happened. Nothing is beyond reality. I'm still waiting for Paulus to represent the guards in a suit against the Aruba Police Department.

Both the guards and the van der sloots have called the police "fools."

Is that a lie? Are they as Steve Cohen says "confused not corrupt?"

[SS]

SS

I'm just trying to figure out a way that 1 + 1 = 2

Right now, 1 +1 = 3, imo,

We were told very early on about the single sneaker in his closet. I have a tendency to place weight on the very early statements that were made.

So one in the closet, one in the cage and one in the pond make 3.

Unless 2 of them are the same sneaker 

jmo.

The sneaker in the closet was the one Urine was still wearung when seen by the witness.  Beth arrived the next day and put heat on everyone.  The bloody shoe in the Sloot home became evidence and was put in the cage with other evidence like Natalee's skirt.  The shoe in the closet became the shoe in the ocean.

[crazybabyborg]

Thanks for re-posting the pictures, Klaas. Just goes to show you how swift I am. I thought this was the shoe being referred to. 




But I can see the other now. Actually, it almost looks like a pair of shoes.

[johan555]

is this  correct ?

Steve Yuhas is a gay conservative radio and television personality in southern California.

Yuhas is featured in The Unrevealed Time Lies, a documentary film by award winning Dutch filmmaker, Renée Gielen. The documentary was released in Holland in July 2008 and in the United States in September 2008. Yuhas is not alone in this documentary as Natalee Holloway's father agreed to an interview as did justice ministers, former investigators and friends of the Holloway and Twitty family. The feature will be shown on American television and a preview was released that features Yuhas' participation and that of the others



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yuhas

[Tamikosmom]

You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.

Keep the faith!

Dayhiker

You and I had determined from the getgo that Hans Mos was just going through the motions  to pacify Natalee Holloways family when he had Joran, Deepak and Satish rearrested a little over one year ago.  We were told to have faith by those who posted along side of us.  I now comprehend that those who told us to have faith in Hans Mos ... no longer have faith themselves.

I am sticking with my sense of logic on Aruba's agenda to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a close.  Jan vander Straaten will be Aruba's sacrificial lamb whose obstruction in the first ten days implies crucial evidence was destroyed and ... a just investigation is now impossible.  In other words ... "Case Closed!"

If implication does not start and end for Jan van der Straaten ... the domino effect will be so far reaching ... Chevez can just claim Aruba as another one of his conquests as he strives to take over the Carribean.

IMO

Janet

I believe Van der Straten will not go down without a fight, Janet, and he'll drag anybody he can down with him. That opens up a big ole can of worms for a lot of people on Aruba and others like Jannsen who have fled the island.

If the Dutch investigate, which I believe they will be forced to do, Jan will not be the only one that gets looked at. Ben Vocking, Jannsen, Jacobs, the Dutch judges, all need to be looked at.

Holland and Hans are getting smeared big time in the international media. There are so many corruption angles Aruba is getting hit by right now it boggles the mind. Hans' pathethetic strategy to once again closed the case is, once again, being derailed.

The beauty of all this is barrage is: how can they even think about closing the case now?

I agree and ... that is why I suspect that Jan van der Straaten is on board with the Aruban agenda.  Obviously ... he has been compensated to take the fall.  Obviously ... the consequences he will receive for obstructing the investigation has been negotiated.

Think about it Dayhiker.  Do you honestly believe that Rudy Croes would implicate Jan van der Straaten if he thought for one minute that there would be a domino effect?  Hey ... Rudy Croes himself would most likely be one of the dominos in that long line that would fall when the first domino ... the Jan van der Straaten domino is pushed.

IMO

Janet

[AZLady]

I have to ask this:  are these pictures taken directly from the ROV footage or are they the pics shown on Dateline that were taken from the monitor observing the ROV?  I ask because Kyle made a very specific distinction between these, as if there was reason for them to be different.  Does that make sense?

[SS]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

You found ROV pictures dated 12/31 of the cage?  I have not seen these.  If possible, please provide a link.

AZ...No...All I did was make a timeline from all the posts of Kyle's and his blog entries that were posted in the search thread.  I will look again really quickly and see if I got it frm the thread.

I have been working on another timeline and just pulled the ones to do with the Persistence and put in that thread.

OK...Sorry...ROV dives...Will fix it in the timeline...

Mon 31-Dec - 1022hrs
The Persistence spent yesterday performing multiple dives with the ROV. The purpose of the dives is for collecting video of each sonar target. Typically, the sonar target is quickly identified and ruled out from the ROV video. The ROV operations lasted until dusk, where we resumed sonar survey operations through the night. Today, we are performing more ROV dives on targets of potential interest.

Mum- he forgot to mention that divers went down with the ROV.  The ROV is a Remote Observation Vehicle.  It doesn't require a diver to accompany it to the floor of the ocean.  There might have been ROV dives on the 30th as Kyle claims in his diary, but there were also human dives on the 30th because we now have photographs dated 12/30.

[MumInOhio]

SS

I'm just trying to figure out a way that 1 + 1 = 2

Right now, 1 +1 = 3, imo,

We were told very early on about the single sneaker in his closet. I have a tendency to place weight on the very early statements that were made.

So one in the closet, one in the cage and one in the pond make 3.

Unless 2 of them are the same sneaker 

jmo.

The sneaker in the closet was the one Urine was still wearung when seen by the witness.  Beth arrived the next day and put heat on everyone.  The bloody shoe in the Sloot home became evidence and was put in the cage with other evidence like Natalee's skirt.  The shoe in the closet became the shoe in the ocean.

Thank You...Makes sense!

[klaasend]

is this  correct ?

Steve Yuhas is a gay conservative radio and television personality in southern California.

Yuhas is featured in The Unrevealed Time Lies, a documentary film by award winning Dutch filmmaker, Renée Gielen. The documentary was released in Holland in July 2008 and in the United States in September 2008. Yuhas is not alone in this documentary as Natalee Holloway's father agreed to an interview as did justice ministers, former investigators and friends of the Holloway and Twitty family. The feature will be shown on American television and a preview was released that features Yuhas' participation and that of the others



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yuhas

Yes true.  Yuhas jumped on the Natalee had it coming bandwagon early on.  He appears to hate women.

[blah]

Something is really very wrong with all of this.


December 25th - Kyle sees a skull on his screen and Tim Miller confrims that it looks like a skull.

December 29th - the intial five pictures of the cage were taken.  We have seen those pictures and it looks like a skull.

December 30th - ALE is photographed onboard Persistence.  Additional photographs of the cage are taken.  It's clearly a skull and a shoe.

December 30th - There is a dive to examine the cage and not touch anything.  A major network is part oF the operation.  The cage is empty.  Tim Trehen gives a thumbs down to indicate that the cage is empty.

January 7th - ALE bags the contents of the cage and everything is taken away. We've seen the photographs.


THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

Also how could the ALE divers not know they were being photographed as Mos is clearly seen looking at photographs it has taken before the dive on Jan 7?  They had to know it had that ability and so they were likely on camera.  Did ALE ask not to be photographed during their dive or something?

Also, why would they not want to be video taped?
If they were there to collect evidence that was going to be used to convict someone, I would think they would want the whole thing to be video taped so no one could argue the way the evidence was handled or whatever.

[MumInOhio]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

You found ROV pictures dated 12/31 of the cage?  I have not seen these.  If possible, please provide a link.

AZ...No...All I did was make a timeline from all the posts of Kyle's and his blog entries that were posted in the search thread.  I will look again really quickly and see if I got it frm the thread.

I have been working on another timeline and just pulled the ones to do with the Persistence and put in that thread.

OK...Sorry...ROV dives...Will fix it in the timeline...

Mon 31-Dec - 1022hrs
The Persistence spent yesterday performing multiple dives with the ROV. The purpose of the dives is for collecting video of each sonar target. Typically, the sonar target is quickly identified and ruled out from the ROV video. The ROV operations lasted until dusk, where we resumed sonar survey operations through the night. Today, we are performing more ROV dives on targets of potential interest.

Mum- he forgot to mention that divers went down with the ROV.  The ROV is a Remote Observation Vehicle.  It doesn't require a diver to accompany it to the floor of the ocean.  There might have been ROV dives on the 30th as Kyle claims in his diary, but there were also human dives on the 30th because we now have photographs dated 12/30.

SS...The one I had wrong was for 12/31...Just ROV dives it says.

[Frank]

You wouldn't pay van der straaten to take a "fall."

He already has, why would anyone spend any money on "payoffs" anymore with so many guilty parties that are uncontrollable?

I think the recent activity is precisely because the money has dried up. Joran did mention the Kalpoe's suit and his share.

They are desperate and the only commodity they have is the truth about Natalee. I think the tide is turning. It's about who can make money on the truth now.

I bet if we had the one million dollar reward for information it might get interesting.

[sharon]

SS

I'm just trying to figure out a way that 1 + 1 = 2

Right now, 1 +1 = 3, imo,

We were told very early on about the single sneaker in his closet. I have a tendency to place weight on the very early statements that were made.

So one in the closet, one in the cage and one in the pond make 3.

Unless 2 of them are the same sneaker 

jmo.

The sneaker in the closet was the one Urine was still wearung when seen by the witness.  Beth arrived the next day and put heat on everyone.  The bloody shoe in the Sloot home became evidence and was put in the cage with other evidence like Natalee's skirt.  The shoe in the closet became the shoe in the ocean.

Also possible 

Thanks!