Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[crazybabyborg]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Hi Kermit! Where was the blue denim supposed to be in the cage? I'm coloring! 

[AZLady]

Janet, I agree.  I do believe Kyle was naive and trusting, as his youth would indicate.  I also understand his position as a junior member of the crew and an employee of Silvetti.  He does state that Silvetti told him never to mention the cage again.  This implies to me that Kyle may have voiced his concerns about the cage and its contents, after which Silvetti told him to shut up.  Kyle is in the position of very young junior employee on a relatively small boat who cannot, realistically, do what his employer has specifically told him not to do.  However, when did the Persistence arrive back in the US and end its trip?  This would have been when Kyle would no longer be employed by Silvetti or under his orders.  Is this about when Kyle decided he had to speak to PI?  He still should have gone to Beth and the FBI, not PI.

I agree wholeheartedly - but it isn't like PI does not have "family" connections.

True.  As Beth's brother, PI is a family connection, a close connection.

[Kermit]

Janet, I agree.  I do believe Kyle was naive and trusting, as his youth would indicate.  I also understand his position as a junior member of the crew and an employee of Silvetti.  He does state that Silvetti told him never to mention the cage again.  This implies to me that Kyle may have voiced his concerns about the cage and its contents, after which Silvetti told him to shut up.  Kyle is in the position of very young junior employee on a relatively small boat who cannot, realistically, do what his employer has specifically told him not to do.  However, when did the Persistence arrive back in the US and end its trip?  This would have been when Kyle would no longer be employed by Silvetti or under his orders.  Is this about when Kyle decided he had to speak to PI?  He still should have gone to Beth and the FBI, not PI.

I agree wholeheartedly - but it isn't like PI does not have "family" connections.

yes he does and I will testify to the fact that he saw the photos.

[Keepthefaith]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Having issues regarding Dives,the sequence of dives,as well as who dove and at what times??Were there dives we are unaware of?May be redundant questions but your always able to put it together nicely!TIA..

[AZLady]

Janet, I agree.  I do believe Kyle was naive and trusting, as his youth would indicate.  I also understand his position as a junior member of the crew and an employee of Silvetti.  He does state that Silvetti told him never to mention the cage again.  This implies to me that Kyle may have voiced his concerns about the cage and its contents, after which Silvetti told him to shut up.  Kyle is in the position of very young junior employee on a relatively small boat who cannot, realistically, do what his employer has specifically told him not to do.  However, when did the Persistence arrive back in the US and end its trip?  This would have been when Kyle would no longer be employed by Silvetti or under his orders.  Is this about when Kyle decided he had to speak to PI?  He still should have gone to Beth and the FBI, not PI.

I agree wholeheartedly - but it isn't like PI does not have "family" connections.

yes he does and I will testify to the fact that he saw the photos.

Kermit, by "he" I assume you mean Beth's brother (PI).  Correct?  Just clarifying.

[SS]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

And from what I gather, the FBI did not receive a blue denim sample to test.  They received a sample of a fabric similar to Natalee's blouse, correct?

Correct, and reportedly it took Richardson a long time to send the fabric to Quantico for analysis.  I'm sorry, I don't have a link to give you for that.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, this is the highest profile international missing person/murder case certainly in the last decade. Van der Straten has got to be in his mid-to-late 60s. Do you think he's going to throw whatever legacy of his career he has in the toilet and spend the last few years of his life in KIA for money he can't even spend?

 

Dayhiker ... it will never happened.  I contend the consequences have already been negotiated and ... jail time is not on the table.

Tamikosmom had a vision.  It is getting clearer.  Now I see it!!

From a legal perspective Jan van der Straaten pleads "not guilty" to a conflict of interest but ... will concedes that he did botched the investigation within the first ten day ... made the wrong decisions.  The judge will rule in his favor and ... he will walk.

Aruba will attempt to pacify Natalee's familly by apologizing for the incompentence of one of their own who prevented justice from prevailing and ... will assure the family that Jan van der Straaten will never again work in law enforcement again.

Jan van der Straaten with a fatten bank account fades from the Aruban scene.

Case Closed!


Dayhiker ... think about it.  Wrong decisions are made every day by LE that compromise investigations.  Heads may roll but ... there are no legal consequences.

Janet

Janet, I don't disagree that could happen, but why even bring it up? They were ready to close the case, why create a fiasco? That makes zero sense to me.

 

IMO

Apparently ... when Aruba closes the Natalee Holloway case ... the FBI on the request of the family is allowed access to all the case files ... case files which will reveal a coverup from the getgo.

However ... in anticipation ... prior to closing the case ... Aruba is now conceding that one of their own was responsible for preventing justice from prevailing in the first ten days ... ten days when all crucial evidence was destroyed.

The plan is perfect!!!

Janet

+++++++

Growing Frustration in Aruba
Wednesday, July 06, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

ART WOOD: The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005
 
ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: ... There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

[Frank]

It can't end with van der straaten. How the search warrant was not granted for the van der sloot residence widens the loyalty to all things Dutch.

[Anna]

Kermit, If you are still here, who said the remains or DNA was Natalee?  I understand the FBI said the fabric they received was not her blouse but who said the remains were her?

And worse yet, I thought they compared the denim to her blouse and said THAT was not a match.

I have a headache from this!

[AZLady]

Janet, so closing the case and implicating van der Stratten in coverup will explain the lack of any evidence for the FBI to analyze.  All the evidence is destroyed and van der Stratten takes the blame.  He says, so sorry, but my friend and all that--you understand, and then goes on with his life.   That's crap.

[SS]

IMO

Apparently ... when Aruba closes the Natalee Holloway case ... the FBI on the request of the family is allowed access to all the case files ... case files which will reveal a coverup from the getgo.
However ... in anticipation ... prior to closing the case ... Aruba is now conceding that one of their own was responsible for preventing justice from prevailing in the first ten days ... ten days when all crucial evidence was destroyed.

The plan is perfect!!!

Janet




Janet - what if all of the information and evidence was never recorded in the case files.  Didn't one of the H/Ts see a ripped up statement on the desk?  Those photographs are the only solid evidence that we have.

+++++++

[AZLady]

It can't end with van der straaten. How the search warrant was not granted for the van der sloot residence widens the loyalty to all things Dutch.

This is turning into an Aruban-Dutch finger pointing contest.  The Arubans, like Rudy Croes, have wanted to oust the Dutch from Aruba for a long time.  They want them to keep sending money, but don't want them on their island or in their affairs.  Hmm...kind of like having your cake and eating it too.

[Anna]

It can't end with van der straaten. How the search warrant was not granted for the van der sloot residence widens the loyalty to all things Dutch.

Oh, no, Bob Wit has already gone on record saying ALE only asked to search Joran's apartment, not the whole complex.

And I suspect Uncle Jan will just say he only covered up abuse of a corpse, etc.  What's the punishment for that?  Ten hours community service?  Some guy in Netherlands got community service for rape so surely Uncle Jan can get it for obstructing a misdemeanor

[AZLady]

IMO

Apparently ... when Aruba closes the Natalee Holloway case ... the FBI on the request of the family is allowed access to all the case files ... case files which will reveal a coverup from the getgo.
However ... in anticipation ... prior to closing the case ... Aruba is now conceding that one of their own was responsible for preventing justice from prevailing in the first ten days ... ten days when all crucial evidence was destroyed.

The plan is perfect!!!

Janet




Janet - what if all of the information and evidence was never recorded in the case files.  Didn't one of the H/Ts see a ripped up statement on the desk?  Those photographs are the only solid evidence that we have.

+++++++

There are no case files.  There is no evidence.  All was destroyed systematically.  The only thing left to investigate is the coverup--the corruption.

[SS]

Janet, I agree.  I do believe Kyle was naive and trusting, as his youth would indicate.  I also understand his position as a junior member of the crew and an employee of Silvetti.  He does state that Silvetti told him never to mention the cage again.  This implies to me that Kyle may have voiced his concerns about the cage and its contents, after which Silvetti told him to shut up.  Kyle is in the position of very young junior employee on a relatively small boat who cannot, realistically, do what his employer has specifically told him not to do.  However, when did the Persistence arrive back in the US and end its trip?  This would have been when Kyle would no longer be employed by Silvetti or under his orders.  Is this about when Kyle decided he had to speak to PI?  He still should have gone to Beth and the FBI, not PI.

I agree wholeheartedly - but it isn't like PI does not have "family" connections.

yes he does and I will testify to the fact that he saw the photos.

Kermit - what makes you think that Natalee was in the cage.  At this point, I am doubtful, but I am certainly open to some information that could change my mind.

[Kermit]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Hi Kermit! Where was the blue denim supposed to be in the cage? I'm coloring! 

Let me say that is awesome work you just did on that photo.

Kyle said: "
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head,

to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

[AZLady]

Kermit, you said "he" saw the photos.  Is "he" Beth's brother--PI?

[Anna]

Date: Feb 18 2008 - 11:07am

 

Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia.

(For sure translation faults, but on or about what it says is the following)

Ex Head Commissar Bob Wit defends his actions in the Holloway case.

-Willemstad- "I have acted correct procedure wise in the case of Natalee Holloway, The ex Head Commissaris in the affair, Bob Wit tells about the procedures that took place fast in the first days of the investigation. During one week, Mr Wit who's avenue is affiliated with the Court of Justice of the Caribbean, has functioned as a Head Commissar in the case here.

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

The ex Head Commissar also says by having dealt with the case himself the suspicions against Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers is strong.

I had concluded from the dossier there had been various contradictions in their declarations. But that is not enough to succeed in a conviction. In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.

For one thing is, the case itself, Mr Wit says that even after time has passed one can still prosecute the suspects. I have seen often in my work the instant good new information comes up that can throw a new light on a case that was unsolved, so Mr Witt is commenting. The Ministry Public in Aruba has announced this the week that the case here ....of a "crime" is 7 years for murder and 10 years for premeditated murder.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2587.840

[Kermit]

Kermit, If you are still here, who said the remains or DNA was Natalee?  I understand the FBI said the fabric they received was not her blouse but who said the remains were her?

And worse yet, I thought they compared the denim to her blouse and said THAT was not a match.

I have a headache from this!

I know it is confusing.

I just posted the photo that was done by Kyle with measurements and his expertise in underwater ROV videos who took the screenshot and also did the overlay of the photo from Natalee on the beach. It matches where the denim skirt was found. In his own words.

The material sent to the fbi was sent by Aruba. It did not match. NOTHING was ever said about the blue denim material to my knowledge being tested.

[Kermit]

Kermit, you said "he" saw the photos.  Is "he" Beth's brother--PI?

Yes he is.