Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[AZLady]

You know, I'm not going to be satisfied with van der Stratten's admission of a coverup.  Nope, that's just not enough.  I think everyone who was complicit in this depraved crime and coverup needs to go down.  Justice will not be served until they convict:
Joran
Kalpoe Brothers
PVDS
Karin Janssen
Dennis Jacobs
Roy Tromp
Gerald Dompig
Van der Straten
Mariane Croes
Dolph Richardson
Rudy Croes
Hans Mos

This list doesn't even include the flunkies in this whole mess like Arlene and Ruben and Julia and others who deliberately contributed to the coverup, not to mention the people like Guido and the Gottenbos boys, and it goes on.

[Tamikosmom]

So, Natalee's body may have been found in that cage and identified last spring.  However, if so, the family has not announced this for their own reasons.  Perhaps they are convinced that by exposing this coverup, justice will be broader and better served.  Does this seem likely?

I must have missed something.  AZLady ... what source implies that the family is aware that Natalee's remains were identified as being in the cage.

Janet

[crazybabyborg]

So, is it the blue trio (lower left) that was the denim?

[Keepthefaith]

I continue to be very disturbed with what has occurred with the cage,as well as the behavior of Kyle(OE)..Why threaten someone for telling the TRUTH???Guess we'll have to see what Kermit reveals in due time...

[Anna]

You know, I'm not going to be satisfied with van der Stratten's admission of a coverup.  Nope, that's just not enough.  I think everyone who was complicit in this depraved crime and coverup needs to go down.  Justice will not be served until they convict:
Joran
Kalpoe Brothers
PVDS
Karin Janssen
Dennis Jacobs
Roy Tromp
Gerald Dompig
Van der Straten
Mariane Croes
Dolph Richardson
Rudy Croes
Hans Mos

This list doesn't even include the flunkies in this whole mess like Arlene and Ruben and Julia and others who deliberately contributed to the coverup, not to mention the people like Guido and the Gottenbos boys, and it goes on.

Plus the agents of disinfo at the Strategic Command Force for AHATA including Steve Cohen, etc.

[ala_gunslinger]

What has changed?

Hey ya'll.

Gun

Hey gunslinger 

Hey Muffy!

[crazybabyborg]

I have no idea what I think, so I'm just throwing this out based upon Joran's behavior, and for the moment, thinking Natalee's remains were in the cage.

Joran's shoe/shoes seemed to be a big issue to him from the get go. I don't doubt there was something with the shoes/shoes, that he feared.

What if Joran's show was purposefully placed in the cage with Natalee's remains as insurance to keep him quiet? If he told, and if she was found, then they also find the evidence needed to convict Joran.

[SS]

Kermit - I have understood that you gave the photographs of the cage contents to Beth, after Kyle chose not to.  Obviously you have had discussions about the cage contents with Beth and/or the other H/Ts.  Why is Jug so certain that the remains in the cage were not Natalee.  Did they have froensic evaluations done on anything from the cage?

I can only assume because I am not privy to the conversation Jug is having with Idstlou.
I think he is only getting the information that she tells him and I can tell from her posts that she is either confused it on purpose or actually is confused or she might be wanting everyone to focus on anything but that cage. I don't know. I'm just telling the truth of what I know to be.

To me, the photos speak for themselves. How many skeletons in a fish trap fit the measurements of someone missing and a blue denim material found and blue tarp etc.

Thanks, Kermit.  Those measurements are concrete.  They're not an abstract theory.  Some will believe that Natalee was in the cage and some will believe that those were not her remains.  However, those measurements comparing the cage contents to Natalee's actual body are actually the first scientific evidence about anything related to Natalee's disappearance that we have seen in 3 1/2 years.

[texasmom]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Hi Kermit! Where was the blue denim supposed to be in the cage? I'm coloring! 

Let me say that is awesome work you just did on that photo.

Kyle said: "
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head,

to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

bump for CBB to compare

[crazybabyborg]

Where you been gunslinger?? I've missed you!

[Anna]

What has changed?

Hey ya'll.

Gun

Hey gunslinger 

Hey Muffy!

Hey, Gunslinger.

Do you happen to have any Excedrin?  This is just all too much for me, I think.

[AZLady]

Tamikosmom, I draw this conclusion based on Kermit's post below.  If the family saw the photos, and the family read the FBI report, then they know that the Arubans didn't send all the cage evidence to the FBI.  Why cover up and not submit evidence unless it indicates that it is Natalee?  Additionally, the photos and Kyle's explanation of what they show is convincing.

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

[Tamikosmom]

One thought I have on this gal Jalitza
Is the Holiday Inn video showing a gal who looked like Natalee. Beth took a look at the video and discounted it as NOT Natalee..
Was it actually Jalitza on that video ?
Part of an early plan to deceive and then eliminated..
Just a thought.

Edward, I believe the video Beth said was not Natalee was taken in a jewelry store (maybe in a hotel lobby, if I recall).  The video in the Holiday Inn casino of Natalee at the Blackjack table was identified as Natalee, as were videos of her walking into the casino.  Now, which video are you referencing?

The hotel lobby is the video I am referring to. thank you

The way I remember it, Beth said that was NOT Natalee in the Hotel lobby Video.

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 97:  The black and white footage plays.  Suddenly a girl with light hair crosses the threshold of the lobby.  The video is grainy, but clearly shows the lobby entrance of the Holiday Inn.  I ask them to rewind it and play it again.  I recognize her.  I want it to be Natalee, but know it's not.  It's Matt's daughter.  I ask to see it again.  Again.  Again.  Play it once more.  Now again.  More than ten times they rewind the spot on the tape that shows this young woman coming into the hotel and stopping at the front desk to get a key.  I so want it to be my daughter.  Maybe if I look at it enough times I can make it her.  Please!  Play it again.  Slow it down.  Now pause it.  Please, be Natalee, but it isn't.  I already know the second time I see it that it isn't her.  The tapes play out.

[AZLady]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

[SS]

I have no idea what I think, so I'm just throwing this out based upon Joran's behavior, and for the moment, thinking Natalee's remains were in the cage.

Joran's shoe/shoes seemed to be a big issue to him from the get go. I don't doubt there was something with the shoes/shoes, that he feared.

What if Joran's show was purposefully placed in the cage with Natalee's remains as insurance to keep him quiet? If he told, and if she was found, then they also find the evidence needed to convict Joran.

You're right CBB.  The sneaker could be insurance or it could have been hastily thrown in there by Urine, himself, to get rid of it since the other one was in the pond.  Beth heard reports about a bloody sneaker at the Sloot home.  I don't believe that she ever actually saw a sneaker.

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom, I draw this conclusion based on Kermit's post below.  If the family saw the photos, and the family read the FBI report, then they know that the Arubans didn't send all the cage evidence to the FBI.  Why cover up and not submit evidence unless it indicates that it is Natalee?  Additionally, the photos and Kyle's explanation of what they show is convincing.

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

Thanks AZLady

It would be interesting to know when ALL the images came to the attention of the FBI and Natalee's family.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

This i agree with AZ..Still why such resistance to what Kermit is telling us when backed up by facts and not innuendo????

[AZLady]

I don't think Joran or anyone expected the cage to be found or Joran's shoe, if it's in there, to be found, either.  I believe the shoes were tossed into the cage with Natalee's remains because the shoes had her blood all over it.  They felt they had to be disposed of along with her body.  No one thought they would be found.

[Blonde]

I just noticed something....

The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th.  The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.

Something isn't adding up.

Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th.  Who is next to that cage on December 30th?  If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence?  The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage.  This is not what we were told.

They only named Tim T  as one of the divers ,I do not know who the other two were because Kyle would help me name them in my thread.

[SS]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

They had better start scurrying and pointing pretty fast, because this case is scheduled to be closed in three weeks.