Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[Pita]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

And Jug still says it's not Natalee in the trap.

[AZLady]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

This i agree with AZ..Still why such resistance to what Kermit is telling us when backed up by facts and not innuendo????

Were you here in June 2005 when so much "misinformation" was posted that it made your head spin?  It was a deliberate attempt to fuzzy the facts and mislead people following the case on the web.  I don't see much resistance to Kermit's revelations--just a few vocal distractors.  Actually, if you took a vote, you'd see an overwhelming number of people who are considering and discussing Kermit's information, and only a very few who don't like the discussion.

[SS]

I don't think Joran or anyone expected the cage to be found or Joran's shoe, if it's in there, to be found, either.  I believe the shoes were tossed into the cage with Natalee's remains because the shoes had her blood all over it.  They felt they had to be disposed of along with her body.  No one thought they would be found.

I don't think any of them ever dreamed that Persistence would arrive.  Unfortunately, as PI put it, the game was fixed.

[Pita]

I just replaced color, and that really does look like a skull and shoe, to me anyway.

CBB ... you are amazing!

In the name of justice for Natalee Holloway ... ALL ROV images that escaped destruction at the hands of the ALE should have been immediately turned over to the FBI experts to determine what were the contents of that cage.

However ... it is not too late.

Janet

No, it's not too late.  As long as images exist from that exploration, they can be analyzed.

I pray that Kyle has had another change of heart and ... has done what he inititially intended to do ... share ALL the ROV images with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family ... share all his observations and concerns while he was a crew member of the Persistence with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family.

It should be all about justice for Natalee Holloway.  It is all about closure for Natalee Holloways family.  Nothing else!

Janet

He did not have a change of heart and has continued to threaten me for posting at SM.

Kermit, in what ways is he threatening you?

[AZLady]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

And Jug still says it's not Natalee in the trap.

And what is Jug's source of information and how much does he know of the family's knowledge? I dont' want to offend anyone, but Jug is no longer married to Beth and I would assume not privy to the everything the family knows now.

[Pita]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

This i agree with AZ..Still why such resistance to what Kermit is telling us when backed up by facts and not innuendo????

Were you here in June 2005 when so much "misinformation" was posted that it made your head spin?  It was a deliberate attempt to fuzzy the facts and mislead people following the case on the web.  I don't see much resistance to Kermit's revelations--just a few vocal distractors.  Actually, if you took a vote, you'd see an overwhelming number of people who are considering and discussing Kermit's information, and only a very few who don't like the discussion.

Many who don't like the discussion simply aren't posting, I being one of them.

[Keepthefaith]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

The question remains!How does anyone know,who or what the contents of the cage were if they weren't examined Forensicly???And if the contents of the cage are in the hands of the ALE,and or Arubans we'll never know!
And Jug still says it's not Natalee in the trap.

[truthseeker2]

Amy was reported as seen by an American serviceman in a whore house in Barranquilla.  She spoke to him and gave her name, but he didn't report it because he wasn't supposed to be there on his leave.  There is also a photograph that has surfaced from Venezuela that looks very much like Amy.  I don't think Amy is believed to be in the ocean.  I could be wrong.

Do you have a link to the story where Amy Bradley was seen in Barranquilla?

[Blonde]

DECEMBER 30

[johan555]

So, is it the blue trio (lower left) that was the denim?

Maybe it is a shoe yes 

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

This i agree with AZ..Still why such resistance to what Kermit is telling us when backed up by facts and not innuendo????

Were you here in June 2005 when so much "misinformation" was posted that it made your head spin?  It was a deliberate attempt to fuzzy the facts and mislead people following the case on the web.  I don't see much resistance to Kermit's revelations--just a few vocal distractors.  Actually, if you took a vote, you'd see an overwhelming number of people who are considering and discussing Kermit's information, and only a very few who don't like the discussion.

Many who don't like the discussion simply aren't posting, I being one of them.

Why may i ask don't you like the discussion???

[AZLady]

Kermit tells us the family has the photos and knows what Kyle believes they show.  The family also knows the conditions under which this trap was investigated by the Arubans.  The only conclusion I can draw for the silence of the family regarding this is to allow the Arubans to dig themselves even deeper into a cover up of monumental proportions.  Only by trapping the Aruban officials in an undeniable coverup can justice be found.  This is beginning to happen and the rats are pointing fingers and scurrying.

This i agree with AZ..Still why such resistance to what Kermit is telling us when backed up by facts and not innuendo????

Were you here in June 2005 when so much "misinformation" was posted that it made your head spin?  It was a deliberate attempt to fuzzy the facts and mislead people following the case on the web.  I don't see much resistance to Kermit's revelations--just a few vocal distractors.  Actually, if you took a vote, you'd see an overwhelming number of people who are considering and discussing Kermit's information, and only a very few who don't like the discussion.

Many who don't like the discussion simply aren't posting, I being one of them.

Thank you for not distracting from the conversation.

[Pita]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

The question remains!How does anyone know,who or what the contents of the cage were if they weren't examined Forensicly???And if the contents of the cage are in the hands of the ALE,and or Arubans we'll never know!
And Jug still says it's not Natalee in the trap.

I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

[Keepthefaith]

I don't think Joran or anyone expected the cage to be found or Joran's shoe, if it's in there, to be found, either.  I believe the shoes were tossed into the cage with Natalee's remains because the shoes had her blood all over it.  They felt they had to be disposed of along with her body.  No one thought they would be found.

I don't think any of them ever dreamed that Persistence would arrive.  Unfortunately, as PI put it, the game was fixed.

That is rewind and played in my head over and over."It was a superb effort,but the game was fixed"

[AZLady]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

[caesu]

press release Kingdom Cabinet:

it's about the cabinet approving of a Kingdom Law regarding the Justice System Aruba/Antilles and the new countries Curaçao/St.Maarten.
this Law will be send now to the Raad van State - this is a advisory board.
then it will be send together with the Raad van State adivisory to the Parliaments of Aruba/Antilles/Netherlands for a vote on it.

Aruba didn't agree with it as it didn't mention moving the Common Court to Aruba.
but Aruba only has one vote in the Kingdom Cabinet, and the Antilles voted for it because they want to keep the Common Court in Curaçao of course.

both the MEP and AVP want it to be moved to Aruba.
but AVP doesn't want MEP to use it as blackmail.
to me it seems that it's unlikely the Aruban Parliament will have enough support to vote it into law.
they vote will be sometime next year. because it takes time for the Raad van State to prepare the advisory.

interesting bit comes at the end:

Het wetsvoorstel berust op consensus tussen Nederland en de Nederlandse Antillen in verband met de nieuwe staatkundige verhoudingen. Ten aanzien van Aruba berust het op de bevoegdheid bij Rijkswet regels te stellen ter waarborging van de rechtszekerheid. Daarvoor is immers het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie onmisbaar.

The bill relies on consensus between the Netherlands and the Netherlands Antilles concerning the new associations between the countries. With respect to Aruba it rests on the competence of the legal system to guarantee the legal security. For that the common Court of Justice is indispensable

http://www.nieuwsbank.nl/inp/2008/12/05/R294.htm

in fact it is saying the legal system on Aruba isn't functioning properly, so no way the Common Court is going to be relocated there.
that's why Rudy Croes is pissed off.
and to Rudy Croes all Dutchies working for his Justice Department are the reason for Aruba's legal system to not function properly - so he can't have his Common Court, and still he feels Curaçao is ruling over Aruba.
so that's one reason he is now attacking Jan van der Straten.
it's all politics.

i am still trying to find out what this Article 14 Kingdom Law is.
but i suspect this is an error in the Amigoe article.
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50164.php
they might have got the Kingdom Lawbook and the Kingdom Charter'/Statute mixed up.

[crazybabyborg]

My last effort and I don't know how helpful this is. The pics are taken from different angles, so no matter what you do they won't match exactly. I tried to match up the corner bars of the cage and the back bar, regardless of Natalee's image. Kinda weird it fell into place.

[Keepthefaith]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

The question remains!How does anyone know,who or what the contents of the cage were if they weren't examined Forensicly???And if the contents of the cage are in the hands of the ALE,and or Arubans we'll never know!
And Jug still says it's not Natalee in the trap.

I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

The way i see it is not having the contents of the cage is a very BIG problem.I think it has been posted numerous times as to WHY we don't have them.I find it troubling to say the least.Same goes for any and everything regarding the search not being turned over in a timely fashion.That goes straight to someone's character,as well as integrity...........

[SS]

Amy was reported as seen by an American serviceman in a whore house in Barranquilla.  She spoke to him and gave her name, but he didn't report it because he wasn't supposed to be there on his leave.  There is also a photograph that has surfaced from Venezuela that looks very much like Amy.  I don't think Amy is believed to be in the ocean.  I could be wrong.

Do you have a link to the story where Amy Bradley was seen in Barranquilla?

No, I don't, but her family had a very good website set up with lots of information.  If you Google it, I'm sure you will find it if it still exists.

[SS]

DECEMBER 30

Blonde - the photograph of the three divers was taken at 3:38 on the 30th.  Do we have a time stamp on the other cage photographs for the same day?