Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[Pita]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

[Keepthefaith]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

[Tamikosmom]

IMO

Apparently ... when Aruba closes the Natalee Holloway case ... the FBI on the request of the family is allowed access to all the case files ... case files which will reveal a coverup from the getgo.
However ... in anticipation ... prior to closing the case ... Aruba is now conceding that one of their own was responsible for preventing justice from prevailing in the first ten days ... ten days when all crucial evidence was destroyed.

The plan is perfect!!!

Janet




Janet - what if all of the information and evidence was never recorded in the case files.  Didn't one of the H/Ts see a ripped up statement on the desk?  Those photographs are the only solid evidence that we have.

+++++++

SS ... there are witnesses that can testify that it was obvious that the ALE was disregarding all evidence within the first ten days that would implicate Joran, Deepak, Satish or Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

++++++

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005

TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


'Scarborough Country' for August 11
updated 6:33 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 12, 2005

JUG TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: ... but when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925176/


'Scarborough Country' for Oct. 21st
updated 1:46 p.m. PT, Sun., Oct. 23, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men.  They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning. And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9796403/from/RL.2/

[Anna]

The story has gone international with UPI picking it up.  This came from Moldovia of all places.


The Aruban justice minister charged Thursday that the police commissioner stalled an investigation into a U.S. teen's disappearance.

The minister, Rudy Croes, said the commissioner, Jan van der Straten, was concerned because the lead suspect was the son of a friend, Radio Netherlands reported.

Natalee Holloway came to Aruba with other members of the senior class at a high school in the suburbs of Birmingham, Ala., on a class trip in 2005. She vanished after leaving a bar.

Joran van der Sloot has been arrested twice in the case and released both times. In December 2007, the prosecutor said there was not enough evidence to charge anyone and declared the case closed.

Aruba, a former colony of the Netherlands, is a separate country under the Dutch crown. Croes also accused Dutch officials of not giving adequate support to the investigation in Aruba.

Paulus van der Sloot, Joran's father, was working for the Justice Ministry at the time of Holloway's disappearance.

Copyright 2008 by United Press International


Publication date: 05 December 2008   

Source: UPI-1-20081205-00474400-bc-aruba-holloway.xml

[Pita]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

[Edward]

Amy was reported as seen by an American serviceman in a whore house in Barranquilla.  She spoke to him and gave her name, but he didn't report it because he wasn't supposed to be there on his leave.  There is also a photograph that has surfaced from Venezuela that looks very much like Amy.  I don't think Amy is believed to be in the ocean.  I could be wrong.

Do you have a link to the story where Amy Bradley was seen in Barranquilla?

No, I don't, but her family had a very good website set up with lots of information.  If you Google it, I'm sure you will find it if it still exists.

The officer sighted her in a brothel on the island of Curacao.
Not Barranquilla Colombia

Barranquilla Colombia is where I found the club Frog Legs that had photos of a girl that looked like Natalee and those photos were viewed by Beth who discounted it as Not Natalee.

Here is a web site for Amy Bradley
http://wherearethey.bravepages.com/cases/anf001.html

[Dana]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

yes well said

[Keepthefaith]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

I think the Monkey's have wonderful inquisitive minds."Slanderous".Only if it's not TRUE!Sure we'll know in time.That's if OE,as well as the crew of the Persistence feel their being slandered??I for one will hear what Kermit has to say with an open-mind!As long as it is Logical to me!

[Dana]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

yes well said

if they did it would not say much for the fbi, my money is with them

[Keepthefaith]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

yes well said

if they did it would not say much for the fbi, my money is with them

Time will tell won't it!

[SS]

Amy was reported as seen by an American serviceman in a whore house in Barranquilla.  She spoke to him and gave her name, but he didn't report it because he wasn't supposed to be there on his leave.  There is also a photograph that has surfaced from Venezuela that looks very much like Amy.  I don't think Amy is believed to be in the ocean.  I could be wrong.

Do you have a link to the story where Amy Bradley was seen in Barranquilla?

No, I don't, but her family had a very good website set up with lots of information.  If you Google it, I'm sure you will find it if it still exists.

The officer sighted her in a brothel on the island of Curacao.
Not Barranquilla Colombia

Barranquilla Colombia is where I found the club Frog Legs that had photos of a girl that looked like Natalee and those photos were viewed by Beth who discounted it as Not Natalee.

Here is a web site for Amy Bradley
http://wherearethey.bravepages.com/cases/anf001.html

Edward - thanks for the Curacao correction.

[Dana]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

yes well said

if they did it would not say much for the fbi, my money is with them

Time will tell won't it!

it sure will

[Hotshot]

Hotshot - where are you getting the information about the divers peeking in on the 30th, but not touching anything? We all saw it on TV.  I don't recall reading that anywhere.  Could you please give us the links?  Obviously there were two dives, and it appears that two, not one dive was filmed.

12/15/2007-Persistence arrived Aruba
12/18/2008-Persistence began search
12/24/2007-Located trap
12/25/2007-Tim Miller-Looks like a skull-Dateline video
12/26/2007-Persistence calibrations completed
12/29/2007-Dive Series of Persistence
12/29/2008-Dives-Thumbs Down per Dateline video
12/30/2008-Dives-Thumbs Down? Per transcript. Mos etc on board
12/31/2007-Multiple Dives

There is something that doesn't make sense.  If an American diver went down on the 30th and peeked into the without touching anything, and he gave a thumbs down signal indicating that nothing was in the cage, then why did ALE return on the 7th to clean the cage of something that wasn't there on the 30th?  Thats my question also  It was also explained to us that it wasn't a thumbs down sign, but rather an indication of low oxygen.  I remember that also

Ya know, I really do want to believe the Americans involved in all of this and I would like to be able to agree with everything that you are reporting that Jug says.  Why is it though that Kermit's photographs keep giving us different information and why do we keep finding discrepanices in all of the Persistence information?  I am starting to get really annoyed by the inconsistencies that keep appearing.

Was the photograph of Eduardo Mansur standing on the deck with the Tims taken on December 30th?  Was he one of the divers in the photograph dated 12/30?  I was to believe he was.
[/quote]Lets all not forget that there was a boat that got stranded out somewhere, and they had the Persistence go out and try to rescue them.  Who knows what went on there.  That took a few hours also.  If I recall correctly they never found the boat.  Who set that one up?

[AZLady]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

How in the world did you twist a discussion about recently released pictures into an allegation that the Monkeys think they have more information than the FBI?     Now that is some serious spin there.  I've been known to jump from topic to topic on occasion, but this just a canyon-sized leap you made there.

[Blonde]

The war between Van der Stratten and Croes was probably a while in the making.  Maybe Croes decided that the only way to close this case was to offer a scapegoat.  But, this particular accusation against Van der Stratten also covers the Minister of Justice with the same mud because he is/was the ultimate party responsible for the actions of the police.  That is what puzzle me here.  I'm beginning to think that Croes knows he's going down, and he's going to take the rest of them with him. 

 
Next up bring Karin Jannsen into the corruption loop. She knew the evidence, she had to agree on delaying the arrest of J2K, she would have had to sign off on the security guards' arrest. It's now time to bring her fat ass into the spotlight.

It would really be nice to see Vo(king) , Smit, and Wit, start talking.  This whole thing can really get interesting fast.... Hmmm, Dompig would be a good one to bring in also.

The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.

Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.

Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry.

King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”

And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King. Exclamation

[Pita]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

How in the world did you twist a discussion about recently released pictures into an allegation that the Monkeys think they have more information than the FBI?     Now that is some serious spin there.  I've been known to jump from topic to topic on occasion, but this just a canyon-sized leap you made there.

See this is exactly why I haven't commented on the discussion.  Anybody who goes against the norm here either twists words or spins.  Carry on.

[SS]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

yes well said

And all this time, I thought they were getting their information from us.   

[Dana]

Pita wrote:
I agree.  I wasn't aware OE is a forensic scientist.  Much of what I have seen seems to be based on his theories, with the exception of the pictures that he provided.

Of course OE is not a forensic scientist.  The theory is based on the FBI report, what is seen in the pictures that indicates the FBI did not receive all the contents of the cage, and OE's observations and experiences while onboard the Persistence.    This is pretty convincing.

I am not yet convinced that was Natalee in the case, especially after reading ldstlou's comments from Jug.   Also, do we know what the full FBI report contained or did Mos only reveal a part of it?  Many questions still remain unanswered.  I'm not ready to say the crew of the Persistence were involved in an intentional coverup.  That would be slanderous to say the least. 

For you.What are those questions??

I'm not going to get into those questions.  It doesn't matter.  All I will say is do people honestly think that a public internet forum has more information than the FBI who have/are investigating this case? 

yes well said

And all this time, I thought they were getting their information from us.   

i think we would be all surprised
cable news and msm poach a great deal here though

[Edward]

Pita ..You always keep me grounded with correct information..   
I love it when you set me straight..

[Blonde]

SS

=snipped-

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

-snipped-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/