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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08  (Read 275565 times)
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AZLady
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« Reply #480 on: December 05, 2008, 08:13:44 PM »

I believe Dateline edited the video to create the outcome they were told to create.




I don't think Dateline had to edit anything.  I think they were using a copy of the ROV footage which never showed the left side of the cage.
But the editing and final version of the Dateline show had to be directed by someone working with the head of this expedition.  The reactions and actions of the people in the show were explained by the audio script that was written with input by the person in charge of this.  John Silvetti.
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SS
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« Reply #481 on: December 05, 2008, 08:15:05 PM »

Remember Tim thought it was a skull at first and it was not until much later that he knew it wasn't.  He even told Dave how positive he was and then he and Dave were contacted by Marco to come to Nicaragua, etc.  So his being there on that date doesn't implicate Tim Miller in anything!



No.  I think Tim Miller was deceived.  I believe Tim was a pawn in an endeavor that was never about justice for Natalee Holloway ... a pawn used to raise fund for this endeavor through his well known credible organization call Texas Equusearch.

Once Tim Miller observed the ROV image and ... was convinced there was a skull in that cage ... damage control was where it was at.  As Kyle stated in an email to Kermit ... Tim was now a liability.


Janet

______

Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008


And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."


Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007


COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."




Janet, I really want to believe that you are correct.
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #482 on: December 05, 2008, 08:15:42 PM »

Just for accuracy, I didn't enlarge the colored skull pic. All I did was replace the 100% overall green as best I could with 15% white white mixed in (replacing 100% color green with an 85% green and 15% white mixture). I did that so the green wouldn't mix quite as much with the colors I wanted to replace. I did that for the whole area of the picture containing the shoe and skull. You'll see the rectangle in the big picture.

Then I ran a 10% blue/90% transparent over the stripes on the shoe. On the skull, I ran a 10% tan and 90% transparent over it. The transparent allows the details of the object to come through.

I did crop it, but saved the whole pic as well. Here's both:





The crop is exactly the same size as in the original.

I didn't try to replace the green with a white component before I started when I wanted to make the trio of spots in the lower left blue, and it wanted to turn pink because of the blend.
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AZLady
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« Reply #483 on: December 05, 2008, 08:17:07 PM »

Louis Shaeffer or John Silvetti or both. 
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #484 on: December 05, 2008, 08:17:29 PM »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581
You can view the scene where the divers signal at the link above.  I enlarged the screen to full screen.  When you do this, you can clearly read Tim Miller's lips--he says "Bullshit."  No doubt about it.  Tim doesn't believe the signal and says it is bullshit.

Thanx Azlady."The Game is Fixed".Tim Miller says "Bullshit".Interesting stuff..
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Frank
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« Reply #485 on: December 05, 2008, 08:18:37 PM »

Big Hammer,

Wow what a delicious post. I feel like I'm eating steak when I read it.

thanks
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AZLady
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« Reply #486 on: December 05, 2008, 08:21:14 PM »

I have to turn off this computer now.  It's been a long day.  I have a lot to think about.  God bless Beth, Dave, Natalee and everyone who loves her.

Later, Monkeys.
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #487 on: December 05, 2008, 08:22:40 PM »

I have to turn off this computer now.  It's been a long day.  I have a lot to think about.  God bless Beth, Dave, Natalee and everyone who loves her.

Later, Monkeys.

Good night AZLady. 
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #488 on: December 05, 2008, 08:23:37 PM »

I have to turn off this computer now.  It's been a long day.  I have a lot to think about.  God bless Beth, Dave, Natalee and everyone who loves her.

Later, Monkeys.

Thanx for all the input..
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« Reply #489 on: December 05, 2008, 08:24:30 PM »

Just for accuracy, I didn't enlarge the colored skull pic. All I did was replace the 100% overall green as best I could with 15% white white mixed in (replacing 100% color green with an 85% green and 15% white mixture). I did that so the green wouldn't mix quite as much with the colors I wanted to replace. I did that for the whole area of the picture containing the shoe and skull. You'll see the rectangle in the big picture.

Then I ran a 10% blue/90% transparent over the stripes on the shoe. On the skull, I ran a 10% tan and 90% transparent over it. The transparent allows the details of the object to come through.

I did crop it, but saved the whole pic as well. Here's both:





The crop is exactly the same size as in the original.

I didn't try to replace the green with a white component before I started when I wanted to make the trio of spots in the lower left blue, and it wanted to turn pink because of the blend.



CBB - you completely lost me with the explanation, but whatever you did, it looks great.  Thanks so much.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #490 on: December 05, 2008, 08:25:08 PM »

Remember Tim thought it was a skull at first and it was not until much later that he knew it wasn't.  He even told Dave how positive he was and then he and Dave were contacted by Marco to come to Nicaragua, etc.  So his being there on that date doesn't implicate Tim Miller in anything!



No.  I think Tim Miller was deceived.  I believe Tim was a pawn in an endeavor that was never about justice for Natalee Holloway ... a pawn used to raise fund for this endeavor through his well known credible organization call Texas Equusearch.

Once Tim Miller observed the ROV image and ... was convinced there was a skull in that cage ... damage control was where it was at.  As Kyle stated in an email to Kermit ... Tim was now a liability.


Janet

______

Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008


And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."


Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007


COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."

Janet, I really want to believe that you are correct.

SS ... I am a believer in Tim Miller.  He has a good heart.  However ... based on the Natalee Holloway case and the Caylee Marie case ... I have come to realize that this kind man has difficulties decerning the good guys from the bad guys in his associations in regard to justice for the victim.

In the Natalee Holloway case ... Tim has known from very early on the corrupt investigation that the Aruban "powers that be" were not after justice for Natalee Holloway.  He should never have allowed his name or the TES name to be associated with a joint venture where he knew that one of the parties had a conflict of interest.

IMO

Janet

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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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« Reply #491 on: December 05, 2008, 08:25:52 PM »

I just replaced color, and that really does look like a skull and shoe, to me anyway.





This is going to be very graphic, but it is one reason why I think that the remains might not have been Natalee, but rather Jalitza or someone else.  Jalitza's body had been prepared for burial which means that she was likely embalmed with her body tissues chemically preserved.  Her body would have been able to be moved, in tact.  Natalee was murdered, possibly dismembered, and reportedly moved several times in the Aruban heat before a final disposal.  Her body would have deteriorated in several days to a point where she would have been difficult to move.  Her body tissue would have started to decay and liquefy.  As with Caylee Anthony, there was certainly insect damage from maggots and beetles.  Insects can devour a human body in just several days.  After just a day or two, it would have been very difficult to move Natalee onboard a boat and then deposit her on the floor of a fish cage unless she was in a closed container.  It would have been like carrying a huge bag of spaghetti.  Her skin would have fallen off with just a touch.  The odor would have been unbearable. It would have been too difficult to put Natalee in that cage unless it was done very shortly after she died.
What if she were still in a bag or tarp as we have seen in the ARU-BAY videos?
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wreck
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« Reply #492 on: December 05, 2008, 08:26:04 PM »

This stinks to high heaven!
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johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #493 on: December 05, 2008, 08:26:56 PM »












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MumInOhio
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« Reply #494 on: December 05, 2008, 08:28:02 PM »

DECEMBER 30






Blonde - the photograph of the three divers was taken at 3:38 on the 30th.  Do we have a time stamp on the other cage photographs for the same day?

Yes I did these screen shots myself





All here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.20




The ROV is controlled from someone onboard the ship.  Is it my imagination or is the angle of the camera on the ROV being set so the lens does not pan on the left side of the cage where the reamins, shoe, and skirt are located?
On the ship it's a Slanted Screen this is NOT Tim Miller hand  but he was on the ship


VIDEO http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581




Oh My God, Blonde.  The timestamp next to Tim Millers hand shows 13 minutes later.  Tim was reported to be off the ship on June 7th when the cage contents were taken by ALE, but he was onbaord during this film sequence.  Please someone, say it isn't so.



NOT TIM'S HAND BUT TIM WAS STANDING NEXT TO THE GUY WHO POINTED


How can the camera shooting the pic at 15:40 (showing the possible remains in the cage) be the same camera that took the pic at 15:39 showing the thumbs down and at 15:43 (where the man's hand is pointing to the screen) showing what appears to be the divers heading back?

Could that camera have swung away from the divers and around to the left side of the cage and taken that pic in 60 seconds?


Thanks...12/30/2007

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08  on: November 20, 2008, 08:22:14 PM 

Quote from: Altruist on November 20, 2008, 08:12:12 PM

Blonde, trying to get Kyle to look at your wonderful work in process http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0, so hopefully he will have some time & be willing to identify who he can so that would take those identifications as addressed & put to rest as fact.  Kyle was there & young enough to have a decent memory of those persons & identify who he does not know, as well.  Any chance that Red could ask Tim Miller to review these photo's as well??????????????????????  Tim Miller may have been on board those days that Kyle was not.

Funny story, tried to view google images when we first started trying to identify Reply 10 of http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0 & found one photo that looked interesting when I clicked on the photo to show true size guess who's work it was Klaas's creation, who had been copying idiots heads onto bodies in the photo's, laughed til it hurt.

Quote Kyle
Tim Miller was never on the Persistence while I was not on board.  He stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.
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Frank
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« Reply #495 on: December 05, 2008, 08:28:40 PM »

A Sea Change In The Caribbean

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, December 05, 2008 4:20 PM PT

The Hemisphere: A Russian warship passes through the Panama Canal for the first time since World War II. Is it a mere annoyance or the beginning of a challenge in America's backyard?


Once, the Panama Canal was considered a triumph of American technology and a symbol of American power. Today it's a waterway managed by a Chinese company with links to the People's Liberation Army through which Russian warships pass.

Last Wednesday, Russian Navy spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo announced that the 554-foot guided missile destroyer Admiral Chabanenko would transit the Panama Canal and arrive at Panama's Pacific port of Balboa for a six-day visit after carrying out naval exercises with the Venezuelan Navy in the Caribbean dubbed "Venrus 2008."

"The only time such an event took place was in 1944 during the Second World War, when four Russian submarines passed through" the canal to help in the battle against Nazi Germany, the Russian embassy in Panama said in a statement.

In his announcement, Capt. Dygalo made a point of referring to the naval base the ship will visit by its former American name — Rodman. Rodman naval base was the naval hub for all U.S. naval activities in the water around South America. It was turned over to Panama in 1999.

The Chabanenko participated in maneuvers that included an air defense exercise in which a Venezuelan Sukhoi jet fighter simulated an attack on vessels that included three Venezuelan frigates, such as the F-21 "Mariscal Sucre," and an exercise to spot, pursue and detain an enemy vessel.

In that exercise, the commander of the Russian squadron captained a Venezuelan frigate while Venezuelan Rear Admiral Louis Morales acted as captain of the nuclear-powered Kirov-class heavy missile cruiser Peter the Great.

It is one of the largest and most powerful warships in the world. It is armed with 20 SS-N-19 "Shipwreck" long-range anti-ship missiles and 500 surface-to-air missiles. She and her sister ships were sailing in an area where nine out of every 14 barrels of imported oil, even some Alaskan oil, must transit. At last report, it showed very little rust.

U.S. officials have openly mocked the show of force, saying the Russian fleet is a shadow of its former self. "Are they accompanied by tugboats this time?" U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack joked to reporters in Washington.

That may be true, but it is also true we no longer have President Reagan's 600-ship navy. We have very capable ships, but not nearly enough to meet our commitments stretching from the Taiwan Strait to the Persian Gulf and beyond.

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy decided to re-form the Fourth Fleet, disbanded in 1953, to patrol the Caribbean. But retired Rear Admiral Joseph Callo has called the Fourth Fleet "mostly a paper command, with tangible military assets to be added 'as needed.'" Our currently undersized and shrinking navy would have to draw from critical areas such as the Middle East and the Western Pacific.

Venezuela is using money from its oil exports to the U.S. to buy significant amounts of Russian weaponry, nearly $4 billion worth, including 100,000 AK-103 and AK-104 assault rifles, a dozen Mi-17 military helicopters and 24 SU-30MK fighter jets.

It is also negotiating a multibillion-dollar, multiyear contract to buy four Kilo-class diesel submarines and four state-of-the-art Amur submarines.

A potential threat is also building in the skies. Venezuela is expanding its small air force, and on Sept. 10 a pair of supersonic and nuclear-capable Russian Tu-160 "Blackjack" bombers landed in Venezuela, ostensibly to conduct patrols over neutral waters in the Caribbean and the Pacific. They were escorted by U.S. aircraft all the way, but the potential presence of Russian bombers in the Caribbean if that phone rings at 3 a.m. seriously complicates things.

Last year, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov announced that Russia was embarking on a five-year military modernization plan costing $189 billion. According to Jane's Sentinel Country Risk Assessments, the new and improved Russian navy will eventually include up to six new nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.

The Russians are great chess players, a game of patience and strategy, and they've just moved their queen.
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #496 on: December 05, 2008, 08:28:59 PM »

This stinks to high heaven!

When you get a chance Wreck.Watch the Dive video from dateline and give your opinion on what Tim Miller says??AzLady has a link a page or two back.Look forward to your input..TIA
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #497 on: December 05, 2008, 08:29:30 PM »

I have to turn off this computer now.  It's been a long day.  I have a lot to think about.  God bless Beth, Dave, Natalee and everyone who loves her.

Later, Monkeys.

AZLady

GOOD NIGHT!

Janet
5:30 PM PT
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
crazybabyborg
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« Reply #498 on: December 05, 2008, 08:29:53 PM »

 

LOL@SOS!

It's hard to believe I can loose somebody on anything technical, but, it only takes making several hundred avatars to discover some tricks!

The point is, I know when you distort something on photoshop. I didn't distort anything. I didn't sharpen, blur, add to or take anything away from the shapes or details. I just colored and made sure that the details of what I colored remained intact. 
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Frank
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« Reply #499 on: December 05, 2008, 08:31:03 PM »

Jossy Mansur on Dana tonight.

And Joe Tacopina?

I hope they get on together, now that would be interesting.
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