Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[Tamikosmom]

This post of Kermit doesn't give dates for the quotes attributed to Kyle, except the last one.  Reading the current comments about the dive photos, the one about Tim being a liability stuck out this morning.  Strange considering he'd been instrumental in getting the project started.  Was it because he saw something in that cage, or something other?

(of course the other quotes could be pulled apart, as well, but I just had that 'liability' on my mind)

Tim Miller was a liability because he had already seen the ROV image of the cage prior to the dive to retrieve the contents and ... was convinced he saw a skull ... 99% convinced.

In the beginning ... Tim Miller/TES was an asset in regards to raising funds for the endeavor that ... in actuality ... had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.  It had everything to do with a search and destroy mission to further the Aruban coverup that began on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... Tim Miller and Kyle were pawns in a "game that was fixed" before it had even begun..

IMO

Janet

+++++++


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

[truthseeker2]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

[SS]

This post of Kermit doesn't give dates for the quotes attributed to Kyle, except the last one.  Reading the current comments about the dive photos, the one about Tim being a liability stuck out this morning.  Strange considering he'd been instrumental in getting the project started.  Was it because he saw something in that cage, or something other?

(of course the other quotes could be pulled apart, as well, but I just had that 'liability' on my mind)

Tim Miller was a liability because he had already seen the ROV image of the cage prior to the dive to retrieve the contents and ... was convinced he saw a skull ... 99% convinced.

In the beginning ... Tim Miller/TES was an asset in regards to raising funds for the endeavor that ... in actuality ... had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.  It had everything to do with a search and destroy mission to further the Aruban coverup that began on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... Tim Miller and Kyle were pawns in a "game that was fixed" before it had even begun..

IMO

Janet

+++++++


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

[Tamikosmom]

This post of Kermit doesn't give dates for the quotes attributed to Kyle, except the last one.  Reading the current comments about the dive photos, the one about Tim being a liability stuck out this morning.  Strange considering he'd been instrumental in getting the project started.  Was it because he saw something in that cage, or something other?

(of course the other quotes could be pulled apart, as well, but I just had that 'liability' on my mind)

I believe that Tim Miller was brought into the Persistence undertaking after Louis Shaeffer  contacted Dave Holloway.

Considering there were no TES volunteers involved ... I tend to think that Tim Miller (TES)  was "used" by Louis Shaeffer and/or John Silvetti as an end to a means ... the means to raise funds for an "Aruban" endeavor that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.

IMO

Janet
_______


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

[klaasend]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

IMO it's all a chess game and I don't think for a minute JQK believes Natalee is alive nor do I believe he thinks she was sold.

[Magnolia]

Just a possibility here......
I don't think Dateline sent more than one or two cameramen.
The piece was put together back in NY.
The cameraman was sent off with Tim and Dave to find Marcos
due to footage we have seen.
Could it be that the Persistence Crew sent the ROV footage
to NY after the cameramen were back in NY to edit the piece
and only sent what they wanted them to see?

[truthseeker2]

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

I understand why you say that, but...if Tim was so sure why would he leave and go to Nicarauga to meet Marcos in an effort to locate a body that he believed he had already found?

[truthseeker2]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

IMO it's all a chess game and I don't think for a minute JQK believes Natalee is alive nor do I believe he thinks she was sold.

Well...Okay.  I think I will leave all options open ... for now.

[Tamikosmom]

This post of Kermit doesn't give dates for the quotes attributed to Kyle, except the last one.  Reading the current comments about the dive photos, the one about Tim being a liability stuck out this morning.  Strange considering he'd been instrumental in getting the project started.  Was it because he saw something in that cage, or something other?

(of course the other quotes could be pulled apart, as well, but I just had that 'liability' on my mind)

Tim Miller was a liability because he had already seen the ROV image of the cage prior to the dive to retrieve the contents and ... was convinced he saw a skull ... 99% convinced.

In the beginning ... Tim Miller/TES was an asset in regards to raising funds for the endeavor that ... in actuality ... had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.  It had everything to do with a search and destroy mission to further the Aruban coverup that began on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... Tim Miller and Kyle were pawns in a "game that was fixed" before it had even begun..

IMO

Janet

+++++++


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

SS ... Tim Miller has been forthright and open regarding what he is sure he observed in that footage.  I have not read anything that implies that Tim is in possession of that footage.  Until the images appeared on the internet ... Tim would have no proof regarding what he claims he saw.  However ... her now has affirmation.

Kermit claims that the Dave, Beth and the FBI are now in possession of all the ROV images.

Janet

_______


Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

[wreck]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

I heard that too. I can only surmize JQK was posturing to at least put pressure on Aruba (knowing full well - they BOTH know she is dead.) They could not "ignore" the possibility she is alive - thus forcing their hand! (Does that make sense?  )

[SS]

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

I understand why you say that, but...if Tim was so sure why would he leave and go to Nicarauga to meet Marcos in an effort to locate a body that he believed he had already found?

Probably because the cage contents had been downplayed to him and he had no forensic evidence.  The Nicaragua story was played up as big.  It even involved the embassy in Nicaragua.  I think Tim was going after every possible lead.

[wreck]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

IMO it's all a chess game and I don't think for a minute JQK believes Natalee is alive nor do I believe he thinks she was sold.

Klaas said it better than me -- I AGREE!!

[can]

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

I understand why you say that, but...if Tim was so sure why would he leave and go to Nicarauga to meet Marcos in an effort to locate a body that he believed he had already found?

I think that is an excellent question and sure would like to know the answer.
Is it possible that Dave really wanted to pursue this ...um lead...  wanted Tim with him...and Tim didn't want to say No to Dave. 
Possibly after that false lead, Tim consolidated the 99/9% opinion formed
after seeing the images in the cage and spoke to Dave further...
How does Dave feel about all of this...anyone know?

[SS]

This post of Kermit doesn't give dates for the quotes attributed to Kyle, except the last one.  Reading the current comments about the dive photos, the one about Tim being a liability stuck out this morning.  Strange considering he'd been instrumental in getting the project started.  Was it because he saw something in that cage, or something other?

(of course the other quotes could be pulled apart, as well, but I just had that 'liability' on my mind)

Tim Miller was a liability because he had already seen the ROV image of the cage prior to the dive to retrieve the contents and ... was convinced he saw a skull ... 99% convinced.

In the beginning ... Tim Miller/TES was an asset in regards to raising funds for the endeavor that ... in actuality ... had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.  It had everything to do with a search and destroy mission to further the Aruban coverup that began on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... Tim Miller and Kyle were pawns in a "game that was fixed" before it had even begun..

IMO

Janet

+++++++


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

SS ... Tim Miller has been forthright and open regarding what he is sure he observed in that footage.  I have not read anything that implies that Tim is in possession of that footage.  Until the images appeared on the internet ... Tim would have no proof regarding what he claims he saw.  However ... her now has affirmation.

Kermit claims that the Dave, Beth and the FBI are now in possession of all the ROV images.

Janet

_______


Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

My apologies Janet.  Those are my lousy typing/editing skills.  Instead of "her had the film" it should have said "he had seen the film".  I know that Tim doesn't have the ROV footage.  Thank you for catching that.

[can]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

I heard that too. I can only surmize JQK was posturing to at least put pressure on Aruba (knowing full well - they BOTH know she is dead.) They could not "ignore" the possibility she is alive - thus forcing their hand! (Does that make sense?  )

It sure does, and I agree.  It's all about putting pressure on Aruba prior to the possible closing of the case.

[wreck]

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

I understand why you say that, but...if Tim was so sure why would he leave and go to Nicarauga to meet Marcos in an effort to locate a body that he believed he had already found?

I think that is an excellent question and sure would like to know the answer.
Is it possible that Dave really wanted to pursue this ...um lead...  wanted Tim with him...and Tim didn't want to say No to Dave. 
Possibly after that false lead, Tim consolidated the 99/9% opinion formed
after seeing the images in the cage and spoke to Dave further...
How does Dave feel about all of this...anyone know?

In hind-sight or retrospect, I wonder what Tim thinks TODAY. As Red will testify -- Tim isn't going to tell anyone publicly what he thinks. 

[Tamikosmom]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

IMO it's all a chess game and I don't think for a minute JQK believes Natalee is alive nor do I believe he thinks she was sold.

Neither do I.  John Q. Kelly is not letting Joran van der Sloot to easily fade from the limelight once again just because he claims another one of his stories regarding the happenings on the the morning of May 30, 2005 is a lie.  Everytime Joran or Aruba makes another attempt to cover up the truth ... the family of Natalee Holloways is forced once again onto the roller coaster from H---.

Janet

++++

John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
December 4, 2007

KELLY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.

<snipped>

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[texasmom]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

IMO it's all a chess game and I don't think for a minute JQK believes Natalee is alive nor do I believe he thinks she was sold.

Klaas said it better than me -- I AGREE!!

I agree with both of you!  

[truthseeker2]

Remember the interview on Greta with John Q. Kelly when the statement of the FBI was released on the fabric testing?  John Q. was very disheartened and he said at that time that Natalee's remains were NO longer recoverable.  Guess he knew then that everything went to the ALE and it would never be seen again.

In the last two minutes of Kelly's last interview with Greta does it sound as though Kelly may be thinking that Natalee is still alive?

http://tinyurl.com/5lsnfr

I heard that too. I can only surmize JQK was posturing to at least put pressure on Aruba (knowing full well - they BOTH know she is dead.) They could not "ignore" the possibility she is alive - thus forcing their hand! (Does that make sense?  )

Sure, Wreck. That can make sense, but it's not a definite.  I'm sorry if I'm ruffling any feathers here. 

I am an Analyst, by trade, for a fortune 100 company and it is second nature for me to question everything.  That's how we make things work...by validating our decisions with verifiable facts.  Yes, we do develop based on possibilities, but once the process begins we 'verify' more often than we 'suppose'.  What I have seen posted here over the last several days has not really verified anything for me yet.

For instance, in discussing the image at 15:40, we still do not how that image came to be.  Two ROV's or one?  Did it appear on the monitor or not?  Who, back on the ship saw it and when did they see it?  Tim Miller is sure it's Natalee, yet he leaves to go talk to man who says HE buried her somewhere else.  Why would he do that?  These are just a few of the questions that cannot be answered now.  Until they are...my second nature kicks in as says don't eliminate any possibility.

[SS]

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

I understand why you say that, but...if Tim was so sure why would he leave and go to Nicarauga to meet Marcos in an effort to locate a body that he believed he had already found?

I think that is an excellent question and sure would like to know the answer.
Is it possible that Dave really wanted to pursue this ...um lead...  wanted Tim with him...and Tim didn't want to say No to Dave. 
Possibly after that false lead, Tim consolidated the 99/9% opinion formed
after seeing the images in the cage and spoke to Dave further...
How does Dave feel about all of this...anyone know?

I don't know that Dave has said anything.  Kermit gave the second set of photographs (12/30) to Beth in March (I think) and that would have been when PI learned about them.  According to ldstlou, Hotshot, and others, Jug is saying that nothing was in the cage.  Dave and Robin obviously received the 12/29 photographs from the FBI, because Robin posted them at BFN.  I wonder if it's too big of a stretch to wonder if the reason why the photographs were posted at BFN was to expose a cover up and put pressure on ALE and the Persistence crew?????