Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[SS]

How Big Is this Cage/Trap?

If cage was estimated at 7.5 FT by 7.5 FT by 2.5 FT -- can someone get a fix on size of material in bags in order to see if these can be sized to remains?

.

I think those are the estimated measurements for the cage from the huts.  This commercial cage is much larger and requires a crane to lift it.

[caesu]

already posted before by Johan.
but here an article about a Dutch psychic coming over to Aruba to dig in the beach to find Natalee.
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50206.php
but if someone really wants to, i could give a summary. but i don't believe in such things.

[ospainter]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

[klaasend]

caps tols last week that this cage is still there ,maybe they use it for drugs smuggling 

Didn't Caps say it was a post office?  I took that to mean a place to drop off drugs.  Depth of 90 not out of the realm of a skin dive although would be easier/safer with scuba equip.

[klaasend]

already posted before by Johan.
but here an article about a Dutch psychic coming over to Aruba to dig in the beach to find Natalee.
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50206.php
but if someone really wants to, i could give a summary. but i don't believe in such things.

Thanks Caesu - I don't believe it either 

[klaasend]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

[Blonde]

SS
I don't know that Dave has said anything.  Kermit gave the second set of photographs (12/30) to Beth in March (I think) and that would have been when PI learned about them.  According to ldstlou, Hotshot, and others, Jug is saying that nothing was in the cage.  Dave and Robin obviously received the 12/29 photographs from the FBI, because Robin posted them at BFN.  I wonder if it's too big of a stretch to wonder if the reason why the photographs were posted at BFN was to expose a cover up and put pressure on ALE and the Persistence crew?????
Robin posted them in a private site BNH .I think she asked posters NOT to take them out of that site.
Someone did and I'm not sure if Klaas,or Red got them or RU got them first. But they were OUT.

[johan555]

already posted before by Johan.
but here an article about a Dutch psychic coming over to Aruba to dig in the beach to find Natalee.
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50206.php
but if someone really wants to, i could give a summary. but i don't believe in such things.

Thanks Caesu - I don't believe it either 

HUH ? why not ? the  Dutch psychics are the best in the world  !!!!

[klaasend]

Johan - where is Joran?  Is he in Thailand, Manila or the NL?

[caesu]

Aruba
`Rudy Croes a stain on minister's office'
6 Dec, 2008, 14:47 (GMT -04:00)

Oranjestad - The office of minister is a job with responsibilities in a country, but minister of justice Rudy Croes makes a mess of it in recent revelations concerning the Natalee Holloway-case. That is the opinion of Andin Bikker of the opposition party Partido Democracia Real (PDR).

The party leader says that the minister must submit his resignation.
Reason for this are the accusation by Rudy Croes on Thursday nationally and internationally about the leader of the investiigation of the Holloway case, former police chief Jan van der Straten. He allegedly helped his`friend' and then judge in in training, Paul van der Sloot, in the first days of the investigation into missing American girl. This after his son Joran had been pointed to as a suspecte, said minister Croes.
The allegations concerning cronyism and corruption have totally surprised the PDR, Bikker wrote in a press bulletin. How is it possible that minister Rudy Croes comes forward with this after so many years. He publicly admits that he as a minister was perfectly aware of these facts concerning the largest police force investigation that we have known in the history of our country. These serious charges should have an impact on him as he is responsible as minister. This information has also reached the international press, this will cause damage to our country in a time that tourism goes through a difficult time. It now seems to me he better submit his resignation, if not he should be forced to resign the parliament.
According to Bikker the charges of Croes make it also possible that `the Kingdom' intervenes on the basis of Article 43 of the statute.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_50203.php

the Dutch can intervene using Article 43 of the Statute by sending over the National Police Internal Investigations Department to investigate ALE.
Brinkman is already demanding this from the Dutch government.

[Blonde]

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/




You were correct Tim Miller.  There were human remains in that crab trap and even a bunch of monkeys were able to blow up a few pictures to identify a skull and a pelvic bone.

When Tim Miller talked about the day they found the cage,
with the double rainbows and the dolphins leading the ship
out to sea, it was very touching to me.  There is no way
that man did not believe in what he was doing.

I know  

[ospainter]

So you believe they put what appear to be human remains in a cage to make money from TV people??

Hi

The only thing I see in the cage is what could possibly be a skull. is it? I don't know. Could it be yes? was it tested? I don't know, might have missed that report.

Then comes the pics of ziplock bags in a cage.

I am just asking questions.

I don't keep up with all the details like some of you do.

OS

[caesu]

Aruba
`Rudy Croes a stain on minister's office'
6 Dec, 2008, 14:47 (GMT -04:00)

Oranjestad - The office of minister is a job with responsibilities in a country, but minister of justice Rudy Croes makes a mess of it in recent revelations concerning the Natalee Holloway-case. That is the opinion of Andin Bikker of the opposition party Partido Democracia Real (PDR).

The party leader says that the minister must submit his resignation.
Reason for this are the accusation by Rudy Croes on Thursday nationally and internationally about the leader of the investiigation of the Holloway case, former police chief Jan van der Straten. He allegedly helped his`friend' and then judge in in training, Paul van der Sloot, in the first days of the investigation into missing American girl. This after his son Joran had been pointed to as a suspecte, said minister Croes.
The allegations concerning cronyism and corruption have totally surprised the PDR, Bikker wrote in a press bulletin. How is it possible that minister Rudy Croes comes forward with this after so many years. He publicly admits that he as a minister was perfectly aware of these facts concerning the largest police force investigation that we have known in the history of our country. These serious charges should have an impact on him as he is responsible as minister. This information has also reached the international press, this will cause damage to our country in a time that tourism goes through a difficult time. It now seems to me he better submit his resignation, if not he should be forced to resign by the parliament.
According to Bikker the charges of Croes make it also possible that `the Kingdom' intervenes on the basis of Article 43 of the statute.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_50203.php

the Dutch can intervene using Article 43 of the Statute by sending over the National Police Internal Investigations Department to investigate ALE.
Brinkman is already demanding this from the Dutch government.

correction: if not he should be forced to resign by the parliament.

[always 1]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

[johan555]

Johan - where is Joran?  Is he in Thailand, Manila or the NL?

Justice Thailand has confirmed last week that he is still in Thailand.
GBMW told me that

[klaasend]

Johan - where is Joran?  Is he in Thailand, Manila or the NL?

Justice Thailand has confirmed last week that he is still in Thailand.
GBMW told me that

Thanks 

[Blonde]

Do we know which exact image or information Tim was relying on when he told Dave he was 99.9% certain that had found what they were looking for?

We don't have that image and I don't know if one exists unless it's on the ROV footage.  Kyle discovered the cage very early on Christmas morning.  According to Kye, they did some claculations, etc.  Tim then contacted Dave.  Somewhere, in this thread or the last thread Kyle explains what he and Tim did.  I have never seen a photograph, though.  The photographs that were taken on 12/29 were four days after the cage was found.  I don't know how long it took them to send the ROV down for closeups or if the ROV had already been launched.  I don't know if once they launched the ROV it stayed in the water or if they had to relaunch it every day.  It could be possible that the ROV was in the water on 12/25 or maybe Kyle was just reviewing some ROV footage on 12/25.  It could very well be that the photographs on 12/29 were the first ones.


Does anyone have Kyle's description of Tim and him examining the cage for the first time?

The ROV

I  brighten this up, i see something in this cage and maybe this is what Tim Miller saw, when he called Dave?

[Magnolia]

I think this is a human Bone !

Johan you have great eyes.  Now, it's not the radius or the ulna...what is it?

I believe that bone is the femur.  Largest bone in the body.
Hooray for Johan

[SS]

caps tols last week that this cage is still there ,maybe they use it for drugs smuggling 

Didn't Caps say it was a post office?  I took that to mean a place to drop off drugs.  Depth of 90 not out of the realm of a skin dive although would be easier/safer with scuba equip.

Yes Klaas, he did say that.  He says that the cage is used to transfer drugs from South America to Aruba where they are then sent on to Holland.  Ecstacy is then sent back from Holland to Aruba to the cage and back to South America.

[johan555]