Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[SS]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

A-1  - they are not regular ziplock bags.  They are huge evidence bags that just happen to zip shut at the top.   

[Blonde]

And another thing, there must have been an agreement with Aruba to have that GIS mapping done. Before anyone got in the boat. Another country could not come into Canadian coastal waters and do that ( map the ocean floor ) without the express permission of the Canadian government. Unless it was a Canadian company that
sub contracted the job. And they would still need permission to do the mapping.   

I have a very strong suspicion that there is a very wealthy Aruban partner.  According to Caps, an American can't own a business in Aruba without a partner and as of May, Mr. Silvetti was planning to open an office in Aruba.

I do not think they let Jossy in on the fact of finding the remains.
But then again....his son was one of the divers.  However,
he was not suited up on the Dateline photos when they  show
Tim Traham all suited up to dive.  I am disagreeing with myself.

He wasn't suited up BUT three men were in that water.
   Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation. ...

[SS]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

It was done so that Kyle could calculate and compare the remains in the trap to Natalee.  He superimposed her photograph from earlier in the day over the remains and did some mathematical calculations.  I have always been convinced that Natalee was on land, but these calculations really have me thinking.
*********

From Kermit

Kyle said: "
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head,

to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

[Hotshot]

I am sooooo spitting mad, I had to share it with you guys.  I just spoke to (2) of the people who used to hang with Joran.  Told them the good news about all that is happening right there in their back yard.  They have not heard of it, nor do they care...... All the (2) can think of is those (2) B--chs, who wrote that book, and those 2 crazies that came to aruba (psycics), and Beths timeline.  They don't have FOX news, and all Aruba has brainwashed them with the stuff they want them to hear.  They don't want to follow the case, nor do they want to know the outcome.  Just as long as it comes to an end.  I have talked to these people for almost 2 years now, and they just don't want to talk about anything about Natalee.  Boy are they all going to get a big surprise when all this comes to light.....They really thought it was an insurance scam, on our part.... I am sending klaas the whole chat.  She can do what she wants with it.

[Buckeye]

johan

If that's a scapula, in front of your outlined bone, then that bone looks pretty small.  If it is a bone, the end and size looks more like a possible ulna bone.

[Blonde]

Where did Kermit say that Eduardo Mansur was one of the divers?  I would like to read that again if anyone has a link.  TIA

TM - if I recall it went like this.....
Kyle wouldn't identify the diver as Eduardo
We compared pictures of Eduardo onboard with the life vest and from the family wedding
I finally asked Kermit if it was Eduardo
I can't remember where it is right now
The same thing happened with identifying John Silvetti
Kyle said he came onboard with the Arubans
We continued to compared photographs
I asked Kermit and Kermit said Yes

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.40

[always 1]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

A-1  - they are not regular ziplock bags.  They are huge evidence bags that just happen to zip shut at the top.   

Oh my gosh, are you kidding, well Im going to crawl to the back of the cage and hope Wreck doesn't read this.........................

[WhiskeyGirl]

And another thing, there must have been an agreement with Aruba to have that GIS mapping done. Before anyone got in the boat. Another country could not come into Canadian coastal waters and do that ( map the ocean floor ) without the express permission of the Canadian government. Unless it was a Canadian company that
sub contracted the job. And they would still need permission to do the mapping.   

I have a very strong suspicion that there is a very wealthy Aruban partner.  According to Caps, an American can't own a business in Aruba without a partner and as of May, Mr. Silvetti was planning to open an office in Aruba.

I do not think they let Jossy in on the fact of finding the remains.
But then again....his son was one of the divers.  However,
he was not suited up on the Dateline photos when they  show
Tim Traham all suited up to dive.  I am disagreeing with myself.

I think he knows everything, Mags.  Eduardo is the founder of Aruba Search and Rescue.  Even if he wasn't suited up in those pictures, Kermit says he was one of the divers.  Jossy is also good buds with Silvetti.  They are doing all of those witness polygraphs and stuff together.  My question is why is Silvetti so invested in the current witnesses after he handed the cage contents off to ALE?  Silvetti was even part of that meeting in September with Caps, Jossy, the witness, and as one monkey seems to have learned - de Vries.  Unfortunately, Mos wouldn't meet with them, they all went home, and Jossy published his first two Diario articles.  Jossy and Silvetti know each other very well.

What is Jossy's motivation?  Hmmm...he lives on the island.  His family lives on the island.  His children and grandchildren live on the island.  He has a business on the island.  He has a real interest in seeing this case solved.  What profit is there for him to continue to see Aruba suffer economically? 

Is Jossy a father?  Could Natalee Holloway have been one of his daughters or granddaughters?

Why is Silvetti so interesting searching for Natalee Holloway?  Might he have the same interest as thousands of others?  Finding Natalee Holloway?  Restoring her to her family?  Justice?

Is Mr. Silvetti a father?  Does he have a family he cares about?  Maybe his interest is something simple like 'compassion'.  His reasons, like mine, are my own.

From what I've seen during the many year Natalee has been missing, I like Jossy, I like John Silvetti, and the thousands of others that have come together on Aruba, on the internet, and in many other places.  I stand with the girl.

Do I need to know what motivates any one person?  No.  I stand with the girl and all those like her. 

When there is a focus, I believe the road(s) travelled are not as important at the end destination, even if we don't know exactly where we're going 100% of the time, we stop and rest, and some of us travel a different path.

just my humble opinions

[johan555]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

A-1  - they are not regular ziplock bags.  They are huge evidence bags that just happen to zip shut at the top.   

Oh my gosh, are you kidding, well Im going to crawl to the back of the cage and hope Wreck doesn't read this.........................

More bones

[SS]

And another thing, there must have been an agreement with Aruba to have that GIS mapping done. Before anyone got in the boat. Another country could not come into Canadian coastal waters and do that ( map the ocean floor ) without the express permission of the Canadian government. Unless it was a Canadian company that
sub contracted the job. And they would still need permission to do the mapping.   

I have a very strong suspicion that there is a very wealthy Aruban partner.  According to Caps, an American can't own a business in Aruba without a partner and as of May, Mr. Silvetti was planning to open an office in Aruba.

I do not think they let Jossy in on the fact of finding the remains.
But then again....his son was one of the divers.  However,
he was not suited up on the Dateline photos when they  show
Tim Traham all suited up to dive.  I am disagreeing with myself.

He wasn't suited up BUT three men were in that water.
   Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation. ...

Even if he didn't dive for the Dateline documentary on the 30th, it doesn't mean that he didn't dive on January 7th. 

[Magnolia]

Where did Kermit say that Eduardo Mansur was one of the divers?  I would like to read that again if anyone has a link.  TIA

TM - if I recall it went like this.....
Kyle wouldn't identify the diver as Eduardo
We compared pictures of Eduardo onboard with the life vest and from the family wedding
I finally asked Kermit if it was Eduardo
I can't remember where it is right now
The same thing happened with identifying John Silvetti
Kyle said he came onboard with the Arubans
We continued to compared photographs
I asked Kermit and Kermit said Yes

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.40

And Kyle kept insisting that the man in the red shirt was not
John Silvetti.....but it was.

[always 1]

So, the cage looks like it is placed the same way, but those are different bags right?????

[ospainter]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

Hi Klaas,

Nice to see you.

It makes no sense to me. Like Natalee would be found in the same exact position as she was standing alive on the beach. OK!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish he would get his butt back here and explain just that if nothing else, if indeed he is the one that did it.

I just don't know. I am getting a headache, don't know how you do it..

OS

[Buckeye]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

A-1  - they are not regular ziplock bags.  They are huge evidence bags that just happen to zip shut at the top.   

Oh my gosh, are you kidding, well Im going to crawl to the back of the cage and hope Wreck doesn't read this.........................

More bones

maybe ribs

[wreck]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

A-1  - they are not regular ziplock bags.  They are huge evidence bags that just happen to zip shut at the top.   

Oh my gosh, are you kidding, well Im going to crawl to the back of the cage and hope Wreck doesn't read this.........................

[truthseeker2]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

It was done so that Kyle could calculate and compare the remains in the trap to Natalee.  He superimposed her photograph from earlier in the day over the remains and did some mathematical calculations.  I have always been convinced that Natalee was on land, but these calculations really have me thinking.
*********

From Kermit

Kyle said: "
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head,

to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.
Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

So did OE perform this overlay of Natalee based on that pic?  The one taken at 15:40 on 12/30...that would have been captured while the divers were in the water giving a thumbs down signal?  The shot made at 15:40 that nobody seemed to see on the monitors of the Persistence?  I thought when Tim called Dave he used that same terminology of "99.9% sure".  No?

Is someone monkeying around with the Monkeys?

[bleachedblack]

I think this is a human Bone !

Johan you have great eyes.  Now, it's not the radius or the ulna...what is it?

I believe that bone is the femur.  Largest bone in the body.
Hooray for Johan

I must be confused...but that bone with the arrow pointing to it is round(ish) like a skull (which is what I think it is, not long like a femur.

[klaasend]

I am sooooo spitting mad, I had to share it with you guys.  I just spoke to (2) of the people who used to hang with Joran.  Told them the good news about all that is happening right there in their back yard.  They have not heard of it, nor do they care...... All the (2) can think of is those (2) B--chs, who wrote that book, and those 2 crazies that came to aruba (psycics), and Beths timeline.  They don't have FOX news, and all Aruba has brainwashed them with the stuff they want them to hear.  They don't want to follow the case, nor do they want to know the outcome.  Just as long as it comes to an end.  I have talked to these people for almost 2 years now, and they just don't want to talk about anything about Natalee.  Boy are they all going to get a big surprise when all this comes to light.....They really thought it was an insurance scam, on our part.... I am sending klaas the whole chat.  She can do what she wants with it.

Hotshot - you can't honestly believe that they would care?  Personally, I think several of Joran's friends know exactly what happened and that includes people like Kawish Misier and Andres dos Santos.

[SS]

Johan - In the photograph that you just posted, there are some objects further back in the cage.  Does anything back there look like human remains?  Maybe this cage is a drug post office and a cemetery.

[Buckeye]

With Kyle's estimate, the cage is 7.5 feet (80 inches) wide.  I count about 20 little squares across. That would make each square about 4 inches square.