Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[Lifesong]

I think this is a human Bone !

Whoa!!!!  Ok, now I am really confused.....You are showing the leg bone which is the largest bone in the human body in a ziplock bag???   (Where is Wreck when I need him???) Are all those things in the cage that bIG????  How big is a 18 year human skulll???  What is the discoloration on the bottom of the cage?????  We when first saw the cage, there was a skull and a shoe, where are they in the ziplock picture????   I am the size of a 10 year old child, my leg bone is 15 in long.....it will not fit in a zip lock bag!!!

A-1  - they are not regular ziplock bags.  They are huge evidence bags that just happen to zip shut at the top.   

Oh my gosh, are you kidding, well Im going to crawl to the back of the cage and hope Wreck doesn't read this.........................

More bones

Ok - 2 things:

1.  The top picture with the time stamp - I believe that could be the shoulder blade bone (scapula?) in the front bag on the left - matches the bone of the same shape shown in the inset - this would, I think, make the bone Johan has pointed out originally one of the arm bones.  Makes sense...

2.  Compare the front bag on the right in both of the pictures above.  This is why I do not think the material is a policeman's cap/hat whatever.  In the pic on top, it does appear the material is wrapped around the pelvic/hip bone.  In the pic on the bottom, it looks like the water has pushed the bag forward showing the other side of it, this being the biological stain Kyle was describing resulting from organic materials left on the material when it was placed there.

Now - where is the skull?  I count 4 bags, is this right?

[bleachedblack]

Oh now I see the bone you are pointing out. IMO still to thin to be the femur, and femur does not have < on the end of it. Ball and socket on one end........

[SS]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

It was done so that Kyle could calculate and compare the remains in the trap to Natalee.  He superimposed her photograph from earlier in the day over the remains and did some mathematical calculations.  I have always been convinced that Natalee was on land, but these calculations really have me thinking.
*********

From Kermit

Kyle said: "
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head,

to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.
Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

So did OE perform this overlay of Natalee based on that pic?  The one taken at 15:40 on 12/30...that would have been captured while the divers were in the water giving a thumbs down signal?  The shot made at 15:40 that nobody seemed to see on the monitors of the Persistence?  I thought when Tim called Dave he used that same terminology of "99.9% sure".  No?

Is someone monkeying around with the Monkeys?

TruthSeeker you are right!  According to what Kyle has said, Tim did see his overlay and calculations.  Oh, my God.


Look toward the rear of the photograph above.  Does this answer your earlier question about the cage?

[truthseeker2]

I am sooooo spitting mad, I had to share it with you guys.  I just spoke to (2) of the people who used to hang with Joran.  Told them the good news about all that is happening right there in their back yard.  They have not heard of it, nor do they care...... All the (2) can think of is those (2) B--chs, who wrote that book, and those 2 crazies that came to aruba (psycics), and Beths timeline.  They don't have FOX news, and all Aruba has brainwashed them with the stuff they want them to hear.  They don't want to follow the case, nor do they want to know the outcome.  Just as long as it comes to an end.  I have talked to these people for almost 2 years now, and they just don't want to talk about anything about Natalee.  Boy are they all going to get a big surprise when all this comes to light.....They really thought it was an insurance scam, on our part.... I am sending klaas the whole chat.  She can do what she wants with it.

Hotshot - you can't honestly believe that they would care?  Personally, I think several of Joran's friends know exactly what happened and that includes people like Kawish Misier and Andres dos Santos.

Klaas, I agree.  Especially about Andres dos Santos.  There are people on that island that know exactly what happened and their are in addition to Poppa Sloot.

[Blonde]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

 I think Kermit told me to show that Natalee would fit in the cage Kermit help.  

[johan555]

i think these are arm bones nr 21

[klaasend]

Good to see you, Ospainter.   All reasonable questions....were the photos a set up, too, in your opinion?

Hi 2NJSons_Mom,

Good to see you too.

It does seem convenient that you see what could be a skull, then a bed of sand below it that is hiding all this evidence that shows up in pics.

Then the evidence just happens to fit a pic of Natalee on the beach.

Amazing to me that not one news organization would touch it..Powerful stuff if true.

I guess we have to wait and see, like everything else in this case.


OS

OS

What's bothering me is the photo that Kyle supplied with Natalee superimposed.  For what purpose was that photo done? 

Hi Klaas,

Nice to see you.

It makes no sense to me. Like Natalee would be found in the same exact position as she was standing alive on the beach. OK!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish he would get his butt back here and explain just that if nothing else, if indeed he is the one that did it.

I just don't know. I am getting a headache, don't know how you do it..

OS

It appears there were human remains in that trap, the question is whos?  Why would Kyle go to such lengths to make it appear to be Natalee's remains?  Was it Natalee?  Was it someone else?  Will we ever know?

I know..I don't know how I do it either 

[truthseeker2]

So did OE perform this overlay of Natalee based on that pic?  The one taken at 15:40 on 12/30...that would have been captured while the divers were in the water giving a thumbs down signal?  The shot made at 15:40 that nobody seemed to see on the monitors of the Persistence?  I thought when Tim called Dave he used that same terminology of "99.9% sure".  No?

Is someone monkeying around with the Monkeys?

TruthSeeker you are right!  According to what Kyle has said, Tim did see his overlay and calculations.  Oh, my God.


Look toward the rear of the photograph above.  Does this answer your earlier question about the cage?

Which photo.  (there are quite a few photos above.  And what do YOU see at the rear of the photo?)

[johan555]

Johan - In the photograph that you just posted, there are some objects further back in the cage.  Does anything back there look like human remains?  Maybe this cage is a drug post office and a cemetery.

i will have a look ,the problem is that the pics are low res and small only 60 kb

[always 1]

In the one picture, it looks like a reflection of a skelton.

[WhiskeyGirl]

I think this is a human Bone !

Johan you have great eyes.  Now, it's not the radius or the ulna...what is it?

I believe that bone is the femur.  Largest bone in the body.
Hooray for Johan

I wonder why a bone would show up as just white in this picture?  Where is the biomatter covering the bone?  Algae?  Ocean beasties?  

In some ways, it looks more like a crescent wrench reflecting in the water.  I think ocean currents, water, and other optic influences may make it look a little bent.

I still wonder why the baggies were piled up in the trap.  Why weren't they taken out when filled?  What's the point of taking a picture of them piled up like that?

[wreck]

In the one picture, it looks like a reflection of a skelton.

This one???

[Lifesong]

This has been nagging at me since Kermit posted these pics...

Wouldn't actual evidence photos be layed out either 1) in the positions they were found in the cage; or 2) in a row so that the contents can be seen?

Why group up the bags so the pics don't even show the contents of all of the bags?

I get that there are more pictures we don't have, but this 'grouping' bothers me.

Kermit - do you have more pictures from Kyle that you can not or have not posted?

Kyle - I'm sure you're keeping up with this - why get these pics to the family and not one taken from the rover that actually shows the evidence? 

[klaasend]

Wreck 

[SS]

So did OE perform this overlay of Natalee based on that pic?  The one taken at 15:40 on 12/30...that would have been captured while the divers were in the water giving a thumbs down signal?  The shot made at 15:40 that nobody seemed to see on the monitors of the Persistence?  I thought when Tim called Dave he used that same terminology of "99.9% sure".  No?

Is someone monkeying around with the Monkeys?

TruthSeeker you are right!  According to what Kyle has said, Tim did see his overlay and calculations.  Oh, my God.


Look toward the rear of the photograph above.  Does this answer your earlier question about the cage?

Which photo.  (there are quite a few photos above.  And what do YOU see at the rear of the photo?)

This one.  It doesn't look like there's an opening at the rear of the cage.  Is this what you were asking?

[always 1]

Phone call Wreck.

[Tamikosmom]

Do we know which exact image or information Tim was relying on when he told Dave he was 99.9% certain that had found what they were looking for?

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

[the big hammer]

With Kyle's estimate, the cage is 7.5 feet (80 inches) wide.  I count about 20 little squares across. That would make each square about 4 inches square.

Right: 7.5 FT X 7.5 FT X 2.5 FT

I count 21 squares.  But I think we are seeing only 1/2 the cage in that view and the actual size across is 40-42 squares.

Klaas, can you re-post the view of the cage so the entire thing is visible -- need to get a sense of dimensions and scale.

Thanks.

.

[truthseeker2]

I think this is a human Bone !

Johan you have great eyes.  Now, it's not the radius or the ulna...what is it?

I believe that bone is the femur.  Largest bone in the body.
Hooray for Johan

I wonder why a bone would show up as just white in this picture?  Where is the biomatter covering the bone?  Algae?  Ocean beasties?  

In some ways, it looks more like a crescent wrench reflecting in the water.  I think ocean currents, water, and other optic influences may make it look a little bent.

I still wonder why the baggies were piled up in the trap.  Why weren't they taken out when filled?  What's the point of taking a picture of them piled up like that?

It looks as though it could be the reflection from whatever type of light is being used while the video is being shot.

[WhiskeyGirl]

With Kyle's estimate, the cage is 7.5 feet (80 inches) wide.  I count about 20 little squares across. That would make each square about 4 inches square.

Are there any shots of the cage with a known object inside?  A ruler?  

Like when someone puts a penny next to an object to show it's size?