Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[klaasend]

[SS]

Hammer - are Kyle's measurements in feet or meters?  The cage could be 7.5 meters x 7.5 meters.

SS - do you have a full picture of the cage handy?  For Hammer?  Was the 7.5x7.5 the size of the one in the ocean or the size of the one at the Fisherman's Huts?

Kyle specified, the one in the water...don't remember him saying it was a different one than the one by the huts.

I think 7.5 x 7.5 is the size of the one from the hut.  They had it replicated before they left the dock for the search, so they would know what to look for on sonar.

[Buckeye]

OE

As for the trap being the one that was reportedly next to the fisherman's huts...I honestly don't know and can't prove that it is or isn't at this point.  I believe early on Dompig referred to the fish trap as being HUGE at one point.  A 5'x 4' trap hardly qualifies as huge.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2673.msg362094#msg362094

[wreck]

Hammer - are Kyle's measurements in feet or meters?  The cage could be 7.5 meters x 7.5 meters.

SS - do you have a full picture of the cage handy?  For Hammer?  Was the 7.5x7.5 the size of the one in the ocean or the size of the one at the Fisherman's Huts?

Only what I just posted.  Maybe this one will help.

9 sections -- "remains" on collapsed door

[Hotshot]

[Tamikosmom]

Here is another post of OE and my reply to it:

493       Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -       on: March 18, 2008, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: oceanexploration on March 18, 2008, 12:22:38 PM
On the issue of Trap recovery:

-After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap.  There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand.  The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

-Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site.

-Jan 9th through 13th I was off the boat and staying at the Holiday Inn for a much-needed break.  I walked up and down the beach many times a day.  On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.  I talked to a wind surfer instructor who claims to be at the beach every day for 8 years.  He said the boat always comes up the shore just south of where we were standing, turns away and heads offshore.  He said it never goes where it was and has never seen it stop.
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day.  I triangulated it's position the best I could using a wrist watch and a few points on land.  It was right on the target location based on the measurements.

-When I returned to the Persistence (14-Jan) there were no more talks about a trap recovery.  When I pressed the issue, I was told "they're no longer interested in the trap or it's recovery".
-I raised the issue again in early February and the response was the same - no interest about the trap and no plans to recover.
I assume one of three scenarios: 1) They genuinely aren't interested in the trap, 2) They are/were interested and will take care of it themselves (or have already done so) and don't want us informed or involved, or 3) They already recovered the trap (or processed the site) and don't want us to know for whatever reason, good or otherwise.
This sums up why WE as monkeys have been very concerned about a recovery operation that did not include the U.S. FBI etc.  No more than we expected and have come to expect from Aruba.  Did you ever go back to the site to see if it was untouched?  Thanks.

Blue Moon - I'm so glad that you posted this.  Knowing what we know now, this is such a crock.  How can he be posting this nonsense when he knows exactly what happened with the trap.  He gave the contents to ALE after "supervising the sampling from the trap".  According to Caps, the trap itself is still there eleven months later.  Why pull it up now - it's empty.

I believe that Kyle is referring to the actual trap ... not the contents.  Apparently ...after the contents were recovered ... the trap was left on the ocean floor.

IMO.

Janet

[Buckeye]

More from OE:

- the "samples" were sent to the FBI by Richardson by his own admission (2nd hand info).


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366374#msg366374

[truthseeker2]

Mice, Klaas!

So, if it's 7.5ft by 7.5 ft with 3 sections each way, each square is aboutn 2' x 3.8 by 2' x 3.8.  Natalee was about 5' 2" or 5' 4".  Right?

[truthseeker2]

LOL.  I meant to say Nice, Klaas.  Not Mice!

[bleachedblack]

Do you like my Christmas avatar with the swinging balls? Thanks to CBB...

[bleachedblack]

LOL oops meant to say BELLS.

[ospainter]

Do you like my Christmas avatar with the swinging balls? Thanks to CBB...

Hi BB,

I do...

OS

[truthseeker2]

Do you like my Christmas avatar with the swinging balls? Thanks to CBB...

::MonkeyLaugh::Dude!!!!

[ospainter]

Do you like my Christmas avatar with the swinging balls? Thanks to CBB...

Hi BB,

I do...

OS

LOL, didn't even see that..

[johan555]

[bleachedblack]

Os, Truthseeker2and all other monkeys......

[the big hammer]

Looks Like 9 Equally-Sized Sections on Cage

Perfect, Klaas.  Thank You.

Now run the math based on kyle's estimated size:

7.5 ft X 12 inches per foot = 90 inches.

9 equally sized squares comprise full cage at 30 inches by 30 inches by 30 inches (2.5 FT X 12 for height).

Looks like each equally sized cage square has 20 net count across -- meaning each are about 1.5 inches across.  Further, look to size of divers as full grown men averaging about 5'10" each in height and compare to 9 squares on the cage.

Yes?

Now -- did Kyle mean METERS or FEET.

Huge difference.  But with divers to scale -- it doesn't look like METERS to me.

.

.

[SS]

Kermit sent this yesterday.  Does it help?

[Tamikosmom]

Aruba
`Rudy Croes a stain on minister's office'
6 Dec, 2008, 14:47 (GMT -04:00)

Oranjestad - The office of minister is a job with responsibilities in a country, but minister of justice Rudy Croes makes a mess of it in recent revelations concerning the Natalee Holloway-case. That is the opinion of Andin Bikker of the opposition party Partido Democracia Real (PDR).

The party leader says that the minister must submit his resignation.

Reason for this are the accusation by Rudy Croes on Thursday nationally and internationally about the leader of the investiigation of the Holloway case, former police chief Jan van der Straten. He allegedly helped his`friend' and then judge in in training, Paul van der Sloot, in the first days of the investigation into missing American girl. This after his son Joran had been pointed to as a suspecte, said minister Croes.

The allegations concerning cronyism and corruption have totally surprised the PDR, Bikker wrote in a press bulletin. How is it possible that minister Rudy Croes comes forward with this after so many years. He publicly admits that he as a minister was perfectly aware of these facts concerning the largest police force investigation that we have known in the history of our country. These serious charges should have an impact on him as he is responsible as minister. This information has also reached the international press, this will cause damage to our country in a time that tourism goes through a difficult time. It now seems to me he better submit his resignation, if not he should be forced to resign the parliament.
According to Bikker the charges of Croes make it also possible that `the Kingdom' intervenes on the basis of Article 43 of the statute.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_50203.php

the Dutch can intervene using Article 43 of the Statute by sending over the National Police Internal Investigations Department to investigate ALE.
Brinkman is already demanding this from the Dutch government.

Protecting Paulus and Joran as well as the tourism industry is where it has been at since May 30, 2005.  It has never been about justice for Natalee Holloway.

 

Janet

Natalee Holloway's Mom: Aruba Investigators 'Not Following Up on Any Leads'
Wednesday, November 19, 2008

HOLLOWAY: ... And you hear all this information coming them, saying that they're following up on every lead. Well, you know, that's just simply not true. They're not following up on any leads.

... Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

[wreck]

Pic #1 is most telling! 1.7 meters = approx 5' +