Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[sharon]

Well, SS, this is confusing, isn't it?  Joran's one bloody sneaker was in his room.  However, the second sneaker can't be both in the cage and in the pond.  I do see the picture of a similar sneaker in the cage, but I have not seen a picture of the sneaker that was supposed to be recovered from the pond.  So, if I have to choose, I believe what I see in the picture of the cage.  If other evidence is provided, then I might change my mind, but this is what I see now.

 

If that is a sneaker in the trap -- it was discovered by kyle on 12/24, divers saw on 12/30, and it was probably in one of the 'baggies' photographed in the 1/7 dive. And possibly retreived -- somewhere between the 7th and the siting of the Panter above the dive site by Kyle on the 13-14 Jan.

What was the date that the sneaker supposedly was found in the pond? Feb '08? Mar '08???

When did the Persistence team search the pond?


Is it possible that the 'shoe' moved from the cage to the pond??? That they shoe in the cage became the shoe in the pond??

I think Aruba has made me suspicious of everything. lol.

Now I know it's REALLY time for me to back away from the keyboard and get back to work.

[AZLady]

Klye stated: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

I don't think Kyle could state it any more plainly.  Destroy evidence.  Who doesn't understand that?  It's not just Kermit's conclusions from pics and posts.  Kyle said it--plain as day, right up front.  What would need to be destroyed if not Natalee's remains and evidence of her murder?

[SS]

I just noticed something....

The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th.  The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.

Something isn't adding up.

Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th.  Who is next to that cage on December 30th?  If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence?  The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage.  This is not what we were told.

GREAT CATCH!!!

That was the dive on the 30th.....they only peered into the cage, and did the thumbs down.  Tim Trahan was one of the divers.  Who is to say nothing was taken??  We don't know, we were not there....  The dive on Jan 7th was done after TM, and Dave were lured off.  Yes we were told there was 2 dives..... That one, and the one where ALE took and bagged evidence. "that was filmed".

Hotshot - where are you getting the information about the divers peeking in on the 30th, but not touching anything?  I don't recall reading that anywhere.  Could you please give us the links?  Obviously there were two dives, and it appears that two, not one dive was filmed.

There is something that doesn't make sense.  If an American diver went down on the 30th and peeked into the without touching anything, and he gave a thumbs down signal indicating that nothing was in the cage, then why did ALE return on the 7th to clean the cage of something that wasn't there on the 30th?  It was also explained to us that it wasn't a thumbs down sign, but rather an indication of low oxygen.

Ya know, I really do want to believe the Americans involved in all of this and I would like to be able to agree with everything that you are reporting that Jug says.  Why is it though that Kermit's photographs keep giving us different information and why do we keep finding discrepanices in all of the Persistence information?  I am starting to get really annoyed by the inconsistencies that keep appearing.

Was the photograph of Eduardo Mansur standing on the deck with the Tims taken on December 30th?  Was he one of the divers in the photograph dated 12/30?

[Tamikosmom]

ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen. They need to bring the whole damned house down, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.

Dayhiker

It is not going to happen!!

I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... Straaten has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation in the first ten days and ... allowing all crucial evidence required to bring the suspects to justice to be destroyed.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where  involved in the events that led up to the happenings  of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all those within the Dutch/Aruba administration who are involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

Janet

You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.

Keep the faith!

Dayhiker

You and I had determined from the getgo that Hans Mos was just going through the motions  to pacify Natalee Holloways family when he had Joran, Deepak and Satish rearrested a little over one year ago.  We were told to have faith by those who posted along side of us.  I now comprehend that those who told us to have faith in Hans Mos ... no longer have faith themselves.

I am sticking with my sense of logic on Aruba's agenda to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a close.  Jan vander Straaten will be Aruba's sacrificial lamb whose obstruction in the first ten days implies crucial evidence was destroyed and ... a just investigation is now impossible.  In other words ... "Case Closed!"

If implication does not start and end for Jan van der Straaten ... the domino effect will be so far reaching ... Chevez can just claim Aruba as another one of his conquests as he strives to take over the Carribean.

IMO

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

SS

=snipped-

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

-snipped-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[AZLady]

This post by Kyle clearly explains the three dive videos.  Kyle also qualifies the Dateline footage as not being the recorded ROV footage.  This is interesting to me and may have some significance.  Perhaps what we've seen on Dateline as the ROV initial inspection was edited to specifically not show all of the trap's contents.

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 02:47:47 PM »   Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

[Helen Back]

Quote:

ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen. They need to bring the whole damned house down, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.

Dayhiker

It is not going to happen!!



Janet,

I agree this seems orchestrated, especially since van der Straten's neice was posting about the ill treatment of "Uncle Jan" just before Rudy threw him under the bus. 

But I believe that this is going to happen.....the house of cards is beginning to crumble.

Rudy, Jan, Paulus, any agreements they had are not going to hold as they have lost control of the situation.  They are in a "checkmate", since Joran's latest statement.  They either have to investigate the human trafficking angle of Natalee's disappearance or produce evidence of a murder......checkmate.  They can do neither. 

This now falls to the Netherlands to investigate the ARUBA DIRTY POLICE. 

I am writing to the Dutch Embassy in Washington DC to demand an investigation into the

Terrorizing of Natalee Holloway and the Holloway Twitty family by the Corrupt Aruban government.

When I think of them holding this family hostage by withholding the information that they have in their possesion, forcing Beth to apologize to the perpetrators, threatening the family with discontinuing any search effort if they misbehaved, it makes my blood boil and amounts to extortion and terrorism.  Either they are holding Natalee's remains hostage, or she has been sold and is alive and in need of assistance.  Which is it?

What these monsters have done for 3 1/2 years amounts to terrorism.  Withholding information regarding the whereabouts of an American Citizen and torturing her family amount to terrrorism in my book, and that's what I'm calling it.

4200 Linnean Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20008
1-877-DUTCHHELP (phone)
1-877-388-2443 (phone)
202-362-3430 (fax)

Hello, Dutch Embassy?  Your fax machine is ringing..........

Helen Back

[MumInOhio]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

[AZLady]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

You found ROV pictures dated 12/31 of the cage?  I have not seen these.  If possible, please provide a link.

[SS]

Well, SS, this is confusing, isn't it?  Joran's one bloody sneaker was in his room.  However, the second sneaker can't be both in the cage and in the pond.  I do see the picture of a similar sneaker in the cage, but I have not seen a picture of the sneaker that was supposed to be recovered from the pond.  So, if I have to choose, I believe what I see in the picture of the cage.  If other evidence is provided, then I might change my mind, but this is what I see now.

 

If that is a sneaker in the trap -- it was discovered by kyle on 12/24, divers saw on 12/30, and it was probably in one of the 'baggies' photographed in the 1/7 dive. And possibly retreived -- somewhere between the 7th and the siting of the Panter above the dive site by Kyle on the 13-14 Jan.

What was the date that the sneaker supposedly was found in the pond? Feb '08? Mar '08???

When did the Persistence team search the pond?


Is it possible that the 'shoe' moved from the cage to the pond??? That they shoe in the cage became the shoe in the pond??

I think Aruba has made me suspicious of everything. lol.

Now I know it's REALLY time for me to back away from the keyboard and get back to work.

The shoe in the pond would be the shoe that Urine was missing when he was seen by the witness.  It would have been found in March of 08.  The shoe in the cage would be the show that Urine was wearing when the witness saw him.  It would have been put in the cage in June 0f 2005 and photographed in Dec. of 2007.  1+1=2

[Tamikosmom]

The following is the second updated compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »

Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »

Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »

May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

[MumInOhio]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

You found ROV pictures dated 12/31 of the cage?  I have not seen these.  If possible, please provide a link.

AZ...No...All I did was make a timeline from all the posts of Kyle's and his blog entries that were posted in the search thread.  I will look again really quickly and see if I got it frm the thread.

I have been working on another timeline and just pulled the ones to do with the Persistence and put in that thread.

[sharon]

SS

I'm just trying to figure out a way that 1 + 1 = 2

Right now, 1 +1 = 3, imo,

We were told very early on about the single sneaker in his closet. I have a tendency to place weight on the very early statements that were made.

So one in the closet, one in the cage and one in the pond make 3.

Unless 2 of them are the same sneaker 

jmo.

[Helen Back]

ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen. They need to bring the whole damned house down, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.

Dayhiker

It is not going to happen!!

I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... Straaten has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation in the first ten days and ... allowing all crucial evidence required to bring the suspects to justice to be destroyed.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where  involved in the events that led up to the happenings  of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all those within the Dutch/Aruba administration who are involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

Janet

You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.

Keep the faith!

Dayhiker

You and I had determined from the getgo that Hans Mos was just going through the motions  to pacify Natalee Holloways family when he had Joran, Deepak and Satish rearrested a little over one year ago.  We were told to have faith by those who posted along side of us. I now comprehend that those who told us to have faith in Hans Mos ... no longer have faith themselves.

I am sticking with my sense of logic on Aruba's agenda to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a close.  Jan vander Straaten will be Aruba's sacrificial lamb whose obstruction in the first ten days implies crucial evidence was destroyed and ... a just investigation is now impossible.  In other words ... "Case Closed!"

If implication does not start and end for Jan van der Straaten ... the domino effect will be so far reaching ... Chevez can just claim Aruba as another one of his conquests as he strives to take over the Carribean.

IMO

Janet

Janet,

Do you really mean this?  I, for one, had great faith in Hans Mos when he first arrived on the island.  He came out with guns blazing.  I believe he is very smart, and he made very strong statements about the evidence.

Then his attitude did a complete 180.

I think that is when he got the memo........this case was never meant to be solved.

Either that, or I am completely wrong about his intentions in the beginning, but I don't think so.

I have not lost faith in myself or the things I believe in, and I never will.  I believe in many things I cannot see or prove.  That's what faith is.

[wreck]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

I think Kyle DID mention several dives -- but he ALSO stated once that there were NO between the 29th and the 7th! (just another contradiction!)

[MumInOhio]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

You found ROV pictures dated 12/31 of the cage?  I have not seen these.  If possible, please provide a link.

AZ...No...All I did was make a timeline from all the posts of Kyle's and his blog entries that were posted in the search thread.  I will look again really quickly and see if I got it frm the thread.

I have been working on another timeline and just pulled the ones to do with the Persistence and put in that thread.

OK...Sorry...ROV dives...Will fix it in the timeline...

Mon 31-Dec - 1022hrs
The Persistence spent yesterday performing multiple dives with the ROV. The purpose of the dives is for collecting video of each sonar target. Typically, the sonar target is quickly identified and ruled out from the ROV video. The ROV operations lasted until dusk, where we resumed sonar survey operations through the night. Today, we are performing more ROV dives on targets of potential interest.

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

My point is simple.

Everyone, for the most part, concedes that Kermit is telling the truth. Kermit has asserted that remains of NH were found in the cage.

Other posters acknowledge speaking to the family of NH, as it pertains to Kermits assertions, and report back that they (the family) believe Kermit's assertions to be off base, and out in left field.

My point is: How can they both be right? Remains of NH were either found in the cage or they were not. Plain and simple.

If there are reasons beyond me for concealing the truth of the cage search, then shame on me. Was only asking a question, which seemed logical to me.

That was a fair question. I have to go back to CBB's great post. She was POSITIVE based on evidence that the blonde hair was Natalee's. I have always said I truly believe Kermit 110% believes that Natalee was found. Was she? We don't know for sure...no one can say 100% for sure yes or no...we weren't there. I can say 100% sure, Natalee's family does not have her remains..and Natalee's family does not BELIEVE...because they were not there either..but they do not believe she was found in that cage.

#43 on: Today at 10:31:10 AM   ldstlou
I am done. When in the heck did I say NOT to focus on something???!!! Let me reiterate!!!! kermit is saying in one breath the family has Natalee's body and is hiding that fact from the world. In another breath that the ALE has her body and Kyle was complicit in that cover up. I am saying BULLSHIT to both!!!! Why am I saying bullshit? Because I asked Jug and gave you his answer...and you know I asked him Klaas. Now the references that I am a liar...and the family is lying...and I simply STATING!!!! what Jug asked me to convey to you all this morning...to pray and focus on van der straaten!!! I never once said what to discuss or not to discuss...with all due respect
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.40


Let me help you understand so that you do not mis-interpret what I have said to Jug or anyone else.

Beth was told between Christmas and New Years eve they found something and she thought it was going to be Natalee.
This was Tim Miller who saw a skull.
He called and the family. THEN the VISUAL ONLY DIVE was said to be not Natalee.
Later, Tim was ushered off the boat by John Silvetti.
And ARUBA ONLY divers went down on JANUARY 7th. The ROV was filming them.
They had no idea that these photos existed. Jug didn't know. Beth didn't know. Dave didn't know. Tim Miller didn't know.

1. I never, ever said that the family has Natalee's body

2. Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

3. Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

4. Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."


5. Now you may or may not trust, believe, or interpret the information. But, I am going to expose more soon.

Thanx for your clarification on topics regarding the cage,as well as your continued posts!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Well I came up with 12/31 multiple dives from somewhere in all of Kyles posts and his notes in Blonde's thread...And I am not going back to find it...

You found ROV pictures dated 12/31 of the cage?  I have not seen these.  If possible, please provide a link.

No pics, just a post by Kyle.

Mon 31-Dec - 1022hrs
The Persistence spent yesterday performing multiple dives with the ROV. The purpose of the dives is for collecting video of each sonar target. Typically, the sonar target is quickly identified and ruled out from the ROV video. The ROV operations lasted until dusk, where we resumed sonar survey operations through the night. Today, we are performing more ROV dives on targets of potential interest.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-01-02T11%3A01%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=9

[Anna]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

My point is simple.

Everyone, for the most part, concedes that Kermit is telling the truth. Kermit has asserted that remains of NH were found in the cage.

Other posters acknowledge speaking to the family of NH, as it pertains to Kermits assertions, and report back that they (the family) believe Kermit's assertions to be off base, and out in left field.

My point is: How can they both be right? Remains of NH were either found in the cage or they were not. Plain and simple.

If there are reasons beyond me for concealing the truth of the cage search, then shame on me. Was only asking a question, which seemed logical to me.

That was a fair question. I have to go back to CBB's great post. She was POSITIVE based on evidence that the blonde hair was Natalee's. I have always said I truly believe Kermit 110% believes that Natalee was found. Was she? We don't know for sure...no one can say 100% for sure yes or no...we weren't there. I can say 100% sure, Natalee's family does not have her remains..and Natalee's family does not BELIEVE...because they were not there either..but they do not believe she was found in that cage.

#43 on: Today at 10:31:10 AM   ldstlou
I am done. When in the heck did I say NOT to focus on something???!!! Let me reiterate!!!! kermit is saying in one breath the family has Natalee's body and is hiding that fact from the world. In another breath that the ALE has her body and Kyle was complicit in that cover up. I am saying BULLSHIT to both!!!! Why am I saying bullshit? Because I asked Jug and gave you his answer...and you know I asked him Klaas. Now the references that I am a liar...and the family is lying...and I simply STATING!!!! what Jug asked me to convey to you all this morning...to pray and focus on van der straaten!!! I never once said what to discuss or not to discuss...with all due respect
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.40


Let me help you understand so that you do not mis-interpret what I have said to Jug or anyone else.

Beth was told between Christmas and New Years eve they found something and she thought it was going to be Natalee.
This was Tim Miller who saw a skull.
He called and the family. THEN the VISUAL ONLY DIVE was said to be not Natalee.
Later, Tim was ushered off the boat by John Silvetti.
And ARUBA ONLY divers went down on JANUARY 7th. The ROV was filming them.
They had no idea that these photos existed. Jug didn't know. Beth didn't know. Dave didn't know. Tim Miller didn't know.

1. I never, ever said that the family has Natalee's body

2. Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

3. Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

4. Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."


5. Now you may or may not trust, believe, or interpret the information. But, I am going to expose more soon.

Thank you, Kermit, for answering this question:

1. I never, ever said that the family has Natalee's body

That really threw me for a loop as I could not recall your ever having said this and it certainly changes the entire concept of what you have been saying.

I certainly hope the family has not been told that SM is accusing them of this!  That would be horrible.   

Was even thinking of offering you a juicy fly to respond but maybe someone else already has one.  Too cold today for any in my area. 

Anna

[SS]

Something is really very wrong with all of this.


December 25th - Kyle sees a skull on his screen and Tim Miller confrims that it looks like a skull.

December 29th - the intial five pictures of the cage were taken.  We have seen those pictures and it looks like a skull.

December 30th - ALE is photographed onboard Persistence.  Additional photographs of the cage are taken.  It's clearly a skull and a shoe.

December 30th - There is a dive to examine the cage and not touch anything.  A major network is part oF the operation.  The cage is empty.  Tim Trehen gives a thumbs down to indicate that the cage is empty.

January 7th - ALE bags the contents of the cage and everything is taken away. We've seen the photographs.


THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE