Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[crazybabyborg]

SS.From watching that again does Tim Miller not say "Bullsh$T" to the "NO" sign.Correct me if i'm wrong!

I thought it was the F bomb.

[Keepthefaith]

SS.From watching that again does Tim Miller not say "Bullsh$T" to the "NO" sign.Correct me if i'm wrong!

I thought it was the F bomb.

Watch it again CBB!Sounds like Two syllables.I could be wrong.More opinions anyone??

[AZLady]

The cage is never clearly viewed during the Dateline dive, and Dateline bleeped out something Tim Miller said. 

[Magnolia]

Kermit said that Tim was not involved.

[AZLady]

I would sure love to ask Tim Miller his assessment of the dive and recovery.  Tim is an honest man, a straight-shooter, and he would not be involved in any cover-up.  Never.  This is why, IMO, they sent him away for a week in January during the recovery.

[Keepthefaith]

The cage is never clearly viewed during the Dateline dive, and Dateline bleeped out something Tim Miller said. 

Listen to it AZlady and let me know what you think??TIA

[SS]

SS - that's not 13 minutes it's 4 minutes later.  15:39 vs. 15:43

Thanks Klaas - and I'm an educator. 

Will some-one please show me the January 2008 date?...TIA

January 7th

[SS]

Kermit said that Tim was not involved.

Yes, Kermit did say that.

[MumInOhio]

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -  on: March 03, 2008, 08:34:25 PM
 
To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

[AZLady]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581
You can view the scene where the divers signal at the link above.  I enlarged the screen to full screen.  When you do this, you can clearly read Tim Miller's lips--he says "Bullshit."  No doubt about it.  Tim doesn't believe the signal and says it is bullshit.

[MumInOhio]

SS - that's not 13 minutes it's 4 minutes later.  15:39 vs. 15:43

Thanks Klaas - and I'm an educator. 

Will some-one please show me the January 2008 date?...TIA

January 7th

SS...With Tim? Please!

[Tamikosmom]

Remember Tim thought it was a skull at first and it was not until much later that he knew it wasn't.  He even told Dave how positive he was and then he and Dave were contacted by Marco to come to Nicaragua, etc.  So his being there on that date doesn't implicate Tim Miller in anything!

No.  I think Tim Miller was deceived.  I believe Tim was a pawn in an endeavor that was never about justice for Natalee Holloway ... a pawn used to raise fund for this endeavor through his well known credible organization call Texas Equusearch.

Once Tim Miller observed the ROV image and ... was convinced there was a skull in that cage ... damage control was where it was at.  As Kyle stated in an email to Kermit ... Tim was now a liability.

Janet

______

Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."

[AZLady]

I believe Dateline edited the video to create the outcome they were told to create.

[Bladerunner]

Here is a sequence of screenshots I captured of the cage video/photos, if someone can pull them over that would be great.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2664.360

[always 1]

Why is the floor of the cage discolored like there was a firm body (not just bones) left there?????

[SS]

SS - that's not 13 minutes it's 4 minutes later.  15:39 vs. 15:43

Thanks Klaas - and I'm an educator. 

Will some-one please show me the January 2008 date?...TIA

January 7th

SS...With Tim? Please!

I think that's Blonde's photograph.  The January 7th cage shots are all that I have.

[AZLady]

Remember Tim thought it was a skull at first and it was not until much later that he knew it wasn't.  He even told Dave how positive he was and then he and Dave were contacted by Marco to come to Nicaragua, etc.  So his being there on that date doesn't implicate Tim Miller in anything!

No.  I think Tim Miller was deceived.  I believe Tim was a pawn in an endeavor that was never about justice for Natalee Holloway ... a pawn used to raise fund for this endeavor through his well known credible organization call Texas Equusearch.

Once Tim Miller observed the ROV image and ... was convinced there was a skull in that cage ... damage control was where it was at.  As Kyle stated in an email to Kermit ... Tim was now a liability.

Janet

______

Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."

Absolutely.  Tim knew what he saw in the cage.  The diver's signal was bullshit and Tim said that.  He was then sent away from Aruba while the Aruban's cleared the cage of all evidence. 

However, just because we have discovered this today doesn't mean that Tim and the family didn't know this months ago.  I still think they figured it out, but probably after it was too late to recover Natalee's remains.  But they know.  And they have the evidence that Aruba continues to cover up 3 1/2 years later.  They will get justice.  They may not be able to take Natalee home, but she will have justice.

[SS]

I believe Dateline edited the video to create the outcome they were told to create.

I don't think Dateline had to edit anything.  I think they were using a copy of the ROV footage which never showed the left side of the cage.

[klaasend]

Here is a sequence of screenshots I captured of the cage video/photos, if someone can pull them over that would be great.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2664.360

Here are all the screen shots/photos of the cage in chronological order.

I believe the last photo here shows the divers retrieving items from the cage. If you watch the film it is clearer as the camera is panning to the right and blurs the screen capture. It appears there is a lot of cloudiness coming from the ocean floor, which is something you can see in other parts fo the video. And I agree with others, the white item on the top of the cage--whatever it was, was collected.

*If this post is something we shouldn't get into I appologize and just delete it*


12/29/07 - 17:32


12/29/07 - 17:41


12/29/07 - 17:47


12/29/07 - 17:56a


12/29/07 - 17:56b


12/29/07 - 17:57a


12/29/07 - 17:57b


12/29/07 - 17:57c


12/29/07 - 17:57d

12/29/07 - 17:58



Day 12/30/07


12/30/07 - 15:38a


12/30/07 - 15:38b


12/30/07 - 15:39


12/30/07 - 15:43

[truthseeker2]

DECEMBER 30

Blonde - the photograph of the three divers was taken at 3:38 on the 30th.  Do we have a time stamp on the other cage photographs for the same day?

Yes I did these screen shots myself





All here http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.20

The ROV is controlled from someone onboard the ship.  Is it my imagination or is the angle of the camera on the ROV being set so the lens does not pan on the left side of the cage where the reamins, shoe, and skirt are located?

On the ship it's a Slanted Screen this is NOT Tim Miller hand  but he was on the ship


VIDEO http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581

Oh My God, Blonde.  The timestamp next to Tim Millers hand shows 13 minutes later.  Tim was reported to be off the ship on June 7th when the cage contents were taken by ALE, but he was onbaord during this film sequence.  Please someone, say it isn't so.

NOT TIM'S HAND BUT TIM WAS STANDING NEXT TO THE GUY WHO POINTED

How can the camera shooting the pic at 15:40 (showing the possible remains in the cage) be the same camera that took the pic at 15:39 showing the thumbs down and at 15:43 (where the man's hand is pointing to the screen) showing what appears to be the divers heading back?

Could that camera have swung away from the divers and around to the left side of the cage and taken that pic in 60 seconds?