Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[ldstlou]

Scandi wrote:

Thanks for that Tamikosmom,  Now I understand why Klassend feels so strongly there was a body discovered in the trap.  I wish I knew who our Kermit really is as he/she is definitely a special frog!

 

Can you explain what is so special about a person who asked permission to post portions of a  PRIVATE dialog, was NOT given permission, but posted it anyways? That is special? I think it is wrong. You do all understand that Kyle's posts were part of a DIALOG!! amongst trusted friends..or so it appears to me. I doubt this was Kyle talking to himself...so why just post Kyle's portion? Were there others who agreed, disagreed? And you wonder why I keep harping the "out of context" message...because anytime you take posts out of a dialog...you take it out of context!!!!

I think it is special that Kermit decided to share her information with us.

Can you also tell me what is so special about a person who claims they are being "threatened" not to post any additional info..when they have not been? Hey kermit, I saw the "threatening e-mail". You have posted everything else out of context, why withhold the "threats". Because there weren't any.

If you saw the threatening emails why not share them so we can decided for ourselves.  

IF...lets assume IF these posts Kermit is posting were taken from a private forum, where confidentiality was SACRED!!!!!!!! so that people could discuss the Persistence search and noodle out ideas, information, facts, theories, fears, etc.....a private forum that was DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!   where CONFIDENTIALITY had to be SACRED!!!! would you still consider Kermit so "special"?

Then why are you and others who are posting at this site posting here?  Go to the private site and don't tell us shit because I don't care.  But because Kermit did post it here where we aren't private I say thanks for your thoughts and I will be the judge of what you post.  I will decided for myself what is true and what isn't.

If the posts that Kermit is posting...were SHARED!!! OPENLY!!! not covertly..OPENLY in a P_R_I_V_A_T_E forum...a "think tank" per se, amongst trusted and dedicated people who have spent the last three and a half years dedicated to posting the truth about Aruba and seeking justice for Natalee...would that change your opinions of the information that Kermit is posting at all? Would you then think what was posted was taken out of context. Would you be less likey to question the integrity of Kyle and the members of the Persistence? Would you question then...as I am...Kermit's motives? Is it really the truth she is looking for?

THERE HASN'T BEEN A PERSON ON A FORUM MORE DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE THAN "KLAASEND".  THERE ARE MANY MANY SMART PEOPLE HERE THAT BLOW YOU OUT OF THE WATER.

HOW DARE YOU INSULT ALL THE LOYAL POSTERS AT SM.

I am NOT a member of the private group for your information. I just think it is wrong what kermit is doing and I am expressing my opinion. If you feel you have to attack me go ahead.

And I am expressing mine.  I have kept quite but now it is getting out of hand.  If you are not a member of the private group then someone is feeding you information and you choose to believe them.

ok..then explain to me how I am misinformed? kermit WAS given permission to bring those posts here?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Scandi wrote:

Thanks for that Tamikosmom,  Now I understand why Klassend feels so strongly there was a body discovered in the trap.  I wish I knew who our Kermit really is as he/she is definitely a special frog!

 

Can you explain what is so special about a person who asked permission to post portions of a  PRIVATE dialog, was NOT given permission, but posted it anyways? That is special? I think it is wrong. You do all understand that Kyle's posts were part of a DIALOG!! amongst trusted friends..or so it appears to me. I doubt this was Kyle talking to himself...so why just post Kyle's portion? Were there others who agreed, disagreed? And you wonder why I keep harping the "out of context" message...because anytime you take posts out of a dialog...you take it out of context!!!!

I think it is special that Kermit decided to share her information with us.

Can you also tell me what is so special about a person who claims they are being "threatened" not to post any additional info..when they have not been? Hey kermit, I saw the "threatening e-mail". You have posted everything else out of context, why withhold the "threats". Because there weren't any.

If you saw the threatening emails why not share them so we can decided for ourselves.  

IF...lets assume IF these posts Kermit is posting were taken from a private forum, where confidentiality was SACRED!!!!!!!! so that people could discuss the Persistence search and noodle out ideas, information, facts, theories, fears, etc.....a private forum that was DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!   where CONFIDENTIALITY had to be SACRED!!!! would you still consider Kermit so "special"?

Then why are you and others who are posting at this site posting here?  Go to the private site and don't tell us shit because I don't care.  But because Kermit did post it here where we aren't private I say thanks for your thoughts and I will be the judge of what you post.  I will decided for myself what is true and what isn't.

If the posts that Kermit is posting...were SHARED!!! OPENLY!!! not covertly..OPENLY in a P_R_I_V_A_T_E forum...a "think tank" per se, amongst trusted and dedicated people who have spent the last three and a half years dedicated to posting the truth about Aruba and seeking justice for Natalee...would that change your opinions of the information that Kermit is posting at all? Would you then think what was posted was taken out of context. Would you be less likey to question the integrity of Kyle and the members of the Persistence? Would you question then...as I am...Kermit's motives? Is it really the truth she is looking for?

THERE HASN'T BEEN A PERSON ON A FORUM MORE DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE THAN "KLAASEND".  THERE ARE MANY MANY SMART PEOPLE HERE THAT BLOW YOU OUT OF THE WATER.

HOW DARE YOU INSULT ALL THE LOYAL POSTERS AT SM.

I am NOT a member of the private group for your information. I just think it is wrong what kermit is doing and I am expressing my opinion. If you feel you have to attack me go ahead.

You see it as an attack, but I see it as a rebuttal.  I, personally, don't see how your opinion on what Kermit has posted here has anything to do with Natalee.   If you were not invited to be a member of the so called private forum, then where are you getting your info from???? 

[Blue Moon]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

I totally agree.  Private forum my eye.  If you belong to that private forum take your opinions back to it.  We are simple people here, not part of a clique.  I see what I see and NO ONE can tell me any different.  THERE is a body in that cage.  I HAVE NO IDEA who's it is but all of this secret agent sh$t is starting to wear thin.  Spit it out what you know or take it back to your Private Forum. Something does not add up here about all of this.  Personally, I have a tendency to believe Kermit.  I would like to hear more from Kyle concerning all of these accusations. JMO 

[ldstlou]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

[blah]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

I have looked at the pictures and watched those videos over and over.  I dont think they are human remains.  I think the blue fabric is a baseball hat just as Annna has suggested.  I dont think this cage/trap has anything at all to do with Natalee and I think people who are calling OE and the crew of the Persistance liars and traitors should tone it down just a tad until a time where they have some concrete evidence that they are what they say.  I've been wrong before and could be wrong about this but I just dont see any solid evidence of human remains.

[klaasend]

Kyle is welcome to post a rebuttal here.  Neither Kyle nor Kermit are banned from posting at SM.  They can "duke" it out if they choose to.  Then we can all see both sides.

[ldstlou]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

I totally agree.  Private forum my eye.  If you belong to that private forum take your opinions back to it.  We are simple people here, not part of a clique.  I see what I see and NO ONE can tell me any different.  THERE is a body in that cage.  I HAVE NO IDEA who's it is but all of this secret agent sh$t is starting to wear thin.  Spit it out what you know or take it back to your Private Forum. Something does not add up here about all of this.  Personally, I have a tendency to believe Kermit.  I would like to hear more from Kyle concerning all of these accusations. JMO 

and that is my point exactly. If you decide to break the forum rules, and bring the info from a forum that agreed to keep info confidential, and no one else in the private group is breaking the confidentiality agreement, then how do we know it's the truth? I am not a member, I have no stake in this other than my sense of what is right and wrong. From the moment I read kermits posts, I wondered how she had info that no one else did..and why now is she sharing it. It makes me suspicious of her motives and her intents.

[klaasend]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

I have looked at the pictures and watched those videos over and over.  I dont think they are human remains.  I think the blue fabric is a baseball hat just as Annna has suggested.  I dont think this cage/trap has anything at all to do with Natalee and I think people who are calling OE and the crew of the Persistance liars and traitors should tone it down just a tad until a time where they have some concrete evidence that they are what they say.  I've been wrong before and could be wrong about this but I just dont see any solid evidence of human remains.

Blah - you could very well be right.  It does look as though Kyle was pretty certain there were human remains in the cage though and I'd like to know why he's so certain.

Plus, I don't see most of the members here calling the crew of the Persistence liars and traitors.  We are questioning Kyle and why he seems so certain the trap was important and we are questioning the handling of the evidence found in the trap.

[texasmom]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

You say the information came from a "private forum" that you are not a member of but you KNOW where it came from and the circumstances!  

[San]

Scandi wrote:

Thanks for that Tamikosmom,  Now I understand why Klassend feels so strongly there was a body discovered in the trap.  I wish I knew who our Kermit really is as he/she is definitely a special frog!

 

Can you explain what is so special about a person who asked permission to post portions of a  PRIVATE dialog, was NOT given permission, but posted it anyways? That is special? I think it is wrong. You do all understand that Kyle's posts were part of a DIALOG!! amongst trusted friends..or so it appears to me. I doubt this was Kyle talking to himself...so why just post Kyle's portion? Were there others who agreed, disagreed? And you wonder why I keep harping the "out of context" message...because anytime you take posts out of a dialog...you take it out of context!!!!

I think it is special that Kermit decided to share her information with us.

Can you also tell me what is so special about a person who claims they are being "threatened" not to post any additional info..when they have not been? Hey kermit, I saw the "threatening e-mail". You have posted everything else out of context, why withhold the "threats". Because there weren't any.

If you saw the threatening emails why not share them so we can decided for ourselves.  

IF...lets assume IF these posts Kermit is posting were taken from a private forum, where confidentiality was SACRED!!!!!!!! so that people could discuss the Persistence search and noodle out ideas, information, facts, theories, fears, etc.....a private forum that was DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!   where CONFIDENTIALITY had to be SACRED!!!! would you still consider Kermit so "special"?

Then why are you and others who are posting at this site posting here?  Go to the private site and don't tell us shit because I don't care.  But because Kermit did post it here where we aren't private I say thanks for your thoughts and I will be the judge of what you post.  I will decided for myself what is true and what isn't.

If the posts that Kermit is posting...were SHARED!!! OPENLY!!! not covertly..OPENLY in a P_R_I_V_A_T_E forum...a "think tank" per se, amongst trusted and dedicated people who have spent the last three and a half years dedicated to posting the truth about Aruba and seeking justice for Natalee...would that change your opinions of the information that Kermit is posting at all? Would you then think what was posted was taken out of context. Would you be less likey to question the integrity of Kyle and the members of the Persistence? Would you question then...as I am...Kermit's motives? Is it really the truth she is looking for?

THERE HASN'T BEEN A PERSON ON A FORUM MORE DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE THAN "KLAASEND".  THERE ARE MANY MANY SMART PEOPLE HERE THAT BLOW YOU OUT OF THE WATER.

HOW DARE YOU INSULT ALL THE LOYAL POSTERS AT SM.

I am NOT a member of the private group for your information. I just think it is wrong what kermit is doing and I am expressing my opinion. If you feel you have to attack me go ahead.

And I am expressing mine.  I have kept quite but now it is getting out of hand.  If you are not a member of the private group then someone is feeding you information and you choose to believe them.

ok..then explain to me how I am misinformed? kermit WAS given permission to bring those posts here?

This is the risk you take for joining a private forum.  Nothing is private.

I read what I read and then I make up my own mind.  I do not let people force me to believe their opinions because they believe they have inside information or they know someone and are in communication with someone.

My favorite line on SM that I have seen is this "TRUST ME I KNOW."  They can take those words have shove them because if I don't believe I'm not going to.

We are all in control of our own minds.

[Blonde]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

If their all talking about the private forum that I, kath, kermit and others were in it was a  very long time ago.
 I was not even a Monkey yet.
It also disappeared a long time ago too with all of our work.
 Some of us are still friends now and keep in touch .
This all has nothing to do with Kyle
Sorry just making a point.
 

[ldstlou]

Kyle is welcome to post a rebuttal here.  Neither Kyle nor Kermit are banned from posting at SM.  They can "duke" it out if they choose to.  Then we can all see both sides.

I saw Kyle post why he did not want to discuss this on SM. Because kermit decided to share the info that was not intended to be shared, does not mean Kyle is going to. And frankly I respect that more than what kermit is doing. He posted to us daily while on the search. he answered everyone's questions. For that he is being slandered by kermit. I wouldn't come here and respond after that.

[Helen Back]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

I totally agree.  Private forum my eye.  If you belong to that private forum take your opinions back to it.  We are simple people here, not part of a clique.  I see what I see and NO ONE can tell me any different.  THERE is a body in that cage.  I HAVE NO IDEA who's it is but all of this secret agent sh$t is starting to wear thin.  Spit it out what you know or take it back to your Private Forum. Something does not add up here about all of this.  Personally, I have a tendency to believe Kermit.  I would like to hear more from Kyle concerning all of these accusations. JMO 

and that is my point exactly. If you decide to break the forum rules, and bring the info from a forum that agreed to keep info confidential, and no one else in the private group is breaking the confidentiality agreement, then how do we know it's the truth? I am not a member, I have no stake in this other than my sense of what is right and wrong. From the moment I read kermits posts, I wondered how she had info that no one else did..and why now is she sharing it. It makes me suspicious of her motives and her intents.

I don't know what's going on here, but it seems someone is breaking the "confidentiality agreement" or you wouldn't know where the info came from.

 

[Blue Moon]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

You say the information came from a "private forum" that you are not a member of but you KNOW where it came from and the circumstances!  

And if that private forum has members in it who's only objective is to bring Beth and Natalee down then I am glad I am not a member of that forum.  HOW can a private forum make any difference in this if their members are the likes of Julie Renfro, Reality and so on and so forth.  I have to question their involvement in all of this before I would ever believe anything they said.

[caesu]

caesu

Better keep your antivirus subscription paid up.   

Post any responses...

i will even open up my firewall for that. 
if my system gets attacked and i trace the intruder to a Government computer in Oranjestad i am going to file a complaint for cyber crime. 

that MEP website just allows you to sign up and post blogs. i didn't have to do anything technical.
but i am sure they won't like it when they see it. 

[klaasend]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

If their all talking about the private forum that I, kath, kermit and others were in it was a  very long time ago.
 I was not even a Monkey yet.
It also disappeared a long time ago too with all of our work.
 Some of us are still friends now and keep in touch .
This all has nothing to do with Kyle
Sorry just making a point.
 

Blonde  - no, they aren't talking about the NH.Net site they are talking about the Freebirds forum I think. 

[wreck]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

Then either post YOUR opinion and back it up, or quit whining.

[Helen Back]

caesu

Better keep your antivirus subscription paid up.   

Post any responses...

i will even open up my firewall for that. 
if my system gets attacked and i trace the intruder to a Government computer in Oranjestad i am going to file a complaint for cyber crime. 

that MEP website just allows you to sign up and post blogs. i didn't have to do anything technical.
but i am sure they won't like it when they see it. 

I saw it and I LIKE IT!  Will look forward to the comments.......

 

[ldstlou]

Scandi wrote:

Thanks for that Tamikosmom,  Now I understand why Klassend feels so strongly there was a body discovered in the trap.  I wish I knew who our Kermit really is as he/she is definitely a special frog!

 

Can you explain what is so special about a person who asked permission to post portions of a  PRIVATE dialog, was NOT given permission, but posted it anyways? That is special? I think it is wrong. You do all understand that Kyle's posts were part of a DIALOG!! amongst trusted friends..or so it appears to me. I doubt this was Kyle talking to himself...so why just post Kyle's portion? Were there others who agreed, disagreed? And you wonder why I keep harping the "out of context" message...because anytime you take posts out of a dialog...you take it out of context!!!!

I think it is special that Kermit decided to share her information with us.

Can you also tell me what is so special about a person who claims they are being "threatened" not to post any additional info..when they have not been? Hey kermit, I saw the "threatening e-mail". You have posted everything else out of context, why withhold the "threats". Because there weren't any.

If you saw the threatening emails why not share them so we can decided for ourselves.  

IF...lets assume IF these posts Kermit is posting were taken from a private forum, where confidentiality was SACRED!!!!!!!! so that people could discuss the Persistence search and noodle out ideas, information, facts, theories, fears, etc.....a private forum that was DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!   where CONFIDENTIALITY had to be SACRED!!!! would you still consider Kermit so "special"?

Then why are you and others who are posting at this site posting here?  Go to the private site and don't tell us shit because I don't care.  But because Kermit did post it here where we aren't private I say thanks for your thoughts and I will be the judge of what you post.  I will decided for myself what is true and what isn't.

If the posts that Kermit is posting...were SHARED!!! OPENLY!!! not covertly..OPENLY in a P_R_I_V_A_T_E forum...a "think tank" per se, amongst trusted and dedicated people who have spent the last three and a half years dedicated to posting the truth about Aruba and seeking justice for Natalee...would that change your opinions of the information that Kermit is posting at all? Would you then think what was posted was taken out of context. Would you be less likey to question the integrity of Kyle and the members of the Persistence? Would you question then...as I am...Kermit's motives? Is it really the truth she is looking for?

THERE HASN'T BEEN A PERSON ON A FORUM MORE DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE THAN "KLAASEND".  THERE ARE MANY MANY SMART PEOPLE HERE THAT BLOW YOU OUT OF THE WATER.

HOW DARE YOU INSULT ALL THE LOYAL POSTERS AT SM.

I am NOT a member of the private group for your information. I just think it is wrong what kermit is doing and I am expressing my opinion. If you feel you have to attack me go ahead.

And I am expressing mine.  I have kept quite but now it is getting out of hand.  If you are not a member of the private group then someone is feeding you information and you choose to believe them.

ok..then explain to me how I am misinformed? kermit WAS given permission to bring those posts here?

This is the risk you take for joining a private forum.  Nothing is private.

I read what I read and then I make up my own mind.  I do not let people force me to believe their opinions because they believe they have inside information or they know someone and are in communication with someone.

My favorite line on SM that I have seen is this "TRUST ME I KNOW."  They can take those words have shove them because if I don't believe I'm not going to.

We are all in control of our own minds.

It is a risk San, I agree. But I still say that if the one person who decided to break the confidentiality of the group starts sharing that information, then I would question their motives and intent and that is what I am doing. How can we be sure we are getting the whole story when kermit is the only one who can pick and choose what she wants to share from what was discussed.

[ldstlou]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

Then either post YOUR opinion and back it up, or quit whining.

My whole point is I can't make an educated opinion, I don't have all of the facts and the facts that kermit is bringing over I can't trust knowing how she got them.