Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[ldstlou]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

Then either post YOUR opinion and back it up, or quit whining.

My whole point is I can't make an educated opinion, I don't have all of the facts and the facts that kermit is bringing over I can't trust knowing how she got them.

I will state one opinion I firmly believe. From what I have read from kermit's posts, as a result of the actions of the aruban authorities, Kyle walked away from that search with a lot of unanswered questions, just the same as us. He is not some culprit in a conspiracy to cover up the discovery of Natalee.

He withheld evidence of a crime scene.

THATS MY VIEW AS WELL

according to whom?

I'm sure Rob won't mind my answering your question about withholding evidence of a crime as illegal.
It's a law in the United States of America.
Maybe not in Aruba I don't know.

here's the slander imho kermit...I asked you a question...WHO withheld information? Are you saying Kyle? If you are..I am calling bullshit!!! I asked Jug, he said no way. Many have asked you if you discussed this with Beth, I have yet to see a straight answer. So please...tell me...did you discuss with Beth your belief that Kyle withheld evidence..what was her response?

[Helen Back]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

could be though that it is a no win situation for him and so he has chosen not to advance it.

Lisa, this is not about winning or losing THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH - NO MATTER WHERE IT LEADS

Rob, I don't have a problem with the truth. I want it as bad as anyone else here. I am just saying, it appears to me that kermit was privy to some information that the rest of us did not have access to. She chose to bring it to SM. I am not saying that is bad!!! No one better to investigate than the Monkeys. It's here and it's being discussed. but kermit doesn't have to bash kyle in the process!! It appears kyle gave her access to that info to begim with!!

Bottom line...kermit did not not "uncover" some great big conspiracy, she brought over information that was being discussed elsewhere. lets call a spade a spade is all I am saying. No need to tear apart Kyle to do that.

Please give it a rest.......You've made Your point....We have more important things to discuss without all of this hoopla....going on.....I mean this in the nicest way.....Seriously......

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

Once again, how do you know this?  I did not know this.

[Rob]

DEAR KERMIT,

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION.

SAN

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

Then either post YOUR opinion and back it up, or quit whining.

My whole point is I can't make an educated opinion, I don't have all of the facts and the facts that kermit is bringing over I can't trust knowing how she got them.

I will state one opinion I firmly believe. From what I have read from kermit's posts, as a result of the actions of the aruban authorities, Kyle walked away from that search with a lot of unanswered questions, just the same as us. He is not some culprit in a conspiracy to cover up the discovery of Natalee.

He withheld evidence of a crime scene.

THATS MY VIEW AS WELL

according to whom?

Lisa, according to ME.

[klaasend]

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

But did they share?  Did they give the proper samples to the FBI? 

[snoopy]

Kermit

Kyle stated that he was involved in the "sampling of the evidence".  Does that mean he actually physically seen the evidence or that he viewed it from the ROV monitor because in another statement it was said that the Aruban divers had their own boat.

Could you clarify this for us if you can since Kyle won't come back and answer some legitimate questions.

TIA

[Kermit]

Kermit
Who are the criminals here?  I am still confused...

Please help me understand this...you claim Kyle withheld evidence in a criminal case?  Right?  Can he not be prosecuted for that?  Have you turned him to the FBI for doing this?

Thanks.

I know that you are not confused, with all due respect, however, because I am on the hotseat by your group, I'll post it again:

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Explanation: Kyle gave the 6 photos that were posted on the Internet at BNH and leaked to SM, at which time Kyle accused Red of doing something wrong.

[Blue Moon]

Thanks for that Tamikosmom,  Now I understand why Klassend feels so strongly there was a body discovered in the trap.  I wish I knew who our Kermit really is as he/she is definitely a special frog!   

Thanks Red for the reminder about D-Day.  I graduated from HS in '62 and had several friends whose fathers were right there in the mix.  My dad was building roads in the Phillipines with the Army Corps of Engineers.  We owe each and every soldier a great debt of gratitude for what they have done for our freedom.  xox

Hello Scandi,

I do not consider nor proport I am special.
I have, however, been involved in cases exposing criminals all the way to the White House.
Nothing special about me, just expose the truth.

Kermit can you tell us who the experts are?  johann asked earlier.

[San]

Here is another opinion of mine Kyle can come here and defend himself until he is red in the face and i still won't believe him.

[Pita]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

My question is if the pictures and information was SO SENSITIVE to the FBI why would Kyle post them on the INTERNET in the first place.  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.

I have a thought on all of this and it's contrary to what most feel.  JMO based on what I have been reading here....

Due to jurisdiction and cover-up issues, I'm assuming the FBI was not "invited" to participate in this water search and Kyle knew this.  Kyle had his suspicions of corruption within the ALE himself.  He covertly took pictures of the evidence within the trap with the ROV in the event of a cover-up.

At some point he must have been invited to this "private site", the Freebirds, I guess, which he thought was a confidential place to discuss information.  He shared his suspicions of the pictures with people there he came to trust who knew more about the history of this case than he did.  He was trying to put the pictures in perspective to figure out what his next move would be.  Until he came to a conclusion, he didn't share the pics with the family or the FBI.

With regard to a so called documentary, maybe they thought it was their only alternative to reveal what was found in the trap.  It might be the only way to bring evidence forward without the authorities involved, just like DeVries did.  The FBI couldn't get involved; they weren't invited so any information coming through them couldn't be used.   Klye couldn't go through the ALE, they covered up the evidence.  I can't imagine his frustration at this point.

It saddens me to read his trust was broken, especially among people he felt he could trust enough to share this information with.  Was it the right thing to do, obviously not.  Kyle is young and has many life's lessons to learn, this being one of them. 
 
My hope is that putting Kyle's information on an open forum hasn't hurt the case in anyway.   

We need to remain focused and stop the infighting.  We are all here for the same purpose.....to find answers for Natalee and her family.

[ldstlou]

Kermit
Who are the criminals here?  I am still confused...

Please help me understand this...you claim Kyle withheld evidence in a criminal case?  Right?  Can he not be prosecuted for that?  Have you turned him to the FBI for doing this?

Thanks.

I know that you are not confused, with all due respect, however, because I am on the hotseat by your group, I'll post it again:

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Explanation: Kyle gave the 6 photos that were posted on the Internet at BNH and leaked to SM, at which time Kyle accused Red of doing something wrong.

Kermit, it appears to me that Kyle staed he did not turn over any info to the FBI after a certain date. Was he withholding info? Can you just answer that yes or no. Did you discuss this with Beth? Is she in agreement with you?

One more question. The info you are bringing to SM that was uncovered by you. Were others aware of this info? Do THEY agree that Kyle withheld info from the FBI?

[texasmom]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

could be though that it is a no win situation for him and so he has chosen not to advance it.

Lisa, this is not about winning or losing THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH - NO MATTER WHERE IT LEADS

Rob, I don't have a problem with the truth. I want it as bad as anyone else here. I am just saying, it appears to me that kermit was privy to some information that the rest of us did not have access to. She chose to bring it to SM. I am not saying that is bad!!! No one better to investigate than the Monkeys. It's here and it's being discussed. but kermit doesn't have to bash kyle in the process!! It appears kyle gave her access to that info to begim with!!

Bottom line...kermit did not not "uncover" some great big conspiracy, she brought over information that was being discussed elsewhere. lets call a spade a spade is all I am saying. No need to tear apart Kyle to do that.

Please give it a rest.......You've made Your point....We have more important things to discuss without all of this hoopla....going on.....I mean this in the nicest way.....Seriously......

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

I wasn't aware of the Aruban authorities hiring the Persistence to search for Natalee, or of any funding that the Aruban authorities provided for this search for Natalee.  If the Persistence mission was only intended to provide every find from the mission to the Aruban authorities, we should have all been aware of that!  We should not have been ASKED what they should do with what they found!  They obviously didn't care what our responses were to that question, because if they indeed let them leave with every bit of evidence from that cage; that was the intent from the beginning.  If it wasn't what made them decide that was the RIGHT thing to do?  Free meals and drinks at Hooters, free lodging?  I want to know what made them decide to trust giving ALL of the evidence to the Aruban authorities!  I still hope I find out they didn't, when and if anyone decides we might have some kind of right to know this!

[Lifesong]

A question for ldstlou:

Since you are not a member of this private forum, how you know that this is where the info/pictures are from?

Give us a straight answer and at least back up something you are saying.

TIA

[ldstlou]

Here is another opinion of mine Kyle can come here and defend himself until he is red in the face and i still won't believe him.

Most likely why he doesn't

[Blue Moon]

Kermit
Who are the criminals here?  I am still confused...

Please help me understand this...you claim Kyle withheld evidence in a criminal case?  Right?  Can he not be prosecuted for that?  Have you turned him to the FBI for doing this?

Thanks.

I know that you are not confused, with all due respect, however, because I am on the hotseat by your group, I'll post it again:

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Explanation: Kyle gave the 6 photos that were posted on the Internet at BNH and leaked to SM, at which time Kyle accused Red of doing something wrong.

Is this group Natalee's Freebirds?  Is Kyle a member of that group?  Lala's are you a member of that group?  Thanks.

[Rob]

Here is another opinion of mine Kyle can come here and defend himself until he is red in the face and i still won't believe him.

YEP

[ldstlou]

A question for ldstlou:

Since you are not a member of this private forum, how you know that this is where the info/pictures are from?

Give us a straight answer and at least back up something you are saying.

TIA

You know what, when I agree not to share information that people have asked me not to share, I don't.

Why don't you ask Kermit where she got them? She knows.

[Kermit]

Kermit

Kyle stated that he was involved in the "sampling of the evidence".  Does that mean he actually physically seen the evidence or that he viewed it from the ROV monitor because in another statement it was said that the Aruban divers had their own boat.

Could you clarify this for us if you can since Kyle won't come back and answer some legitimate questions.

TIA

Hi Snoopy,

It is my understanding that according to Kyle, ONLY the ARUBAN divers took the evidence from the trap and they dove from their boat and returned to their boat with that evidence. No one on board the Persistence had that evidence that we can clearly see in the plastic bags. Kyle's expertise stated that it looked like blue denim in one of the bags and that it clearly moved with the current, indicating that it was material.

[klaasend]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

My question is if the pictures and information was SO SENSITIVE to the FBI why would Kyle post them on the INTERNET in the first place.  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.

I have a thought on all of this and it's contrary to what most feel.  JMO based on what I have been reading here....

Due to jurisdiction and cover-up issues, I'm assuming the FBI was not "invited" to participate in this water search and Kyle knew this.  Kyle had his suspicions of corruption within the ALE himself.  He covertly took pictures of the evidence within the trap with the ROV in the event of a cover-up.

At some point he must have been invited to this "private site", the Freebirds, I guess, which he thought was a confidential place to discuss information.  He shared his suspicions of the pictures with people there he came to trust who knew more about the history of this case than he did.  He was trying to put the pictures in perspective to figure out what his next move would be.  Until he came to a conclusion, he didn't share the pics with the family or the FBI.

With regard to a so called documentary, maybe they thought it was their only alternative to reveal what was found in the trap.  It might be the only way to bring evidence forward without the authorities involved, just like DeVries did.  The FBI couldn't get involved; they weren't invited so any information coming through them couldn't be used.   Klye couldn't go through the ALE, they covered up the evidence.  I can't imagine his frustration at this point.

It saddens me to read his trust was broken, especially among people he felt he could trust enough to share this information with.  Was it the right thing to do, obviously not.  Kyle is young and has many life's lessons to learn, this being one of them. 
 
My hope is that putting Kyle's information on an open forum hasn't hurt the case in anyway.   

We need to remain focused and stop the infighting.  We are all here for the same purpose.....to find answers for Natalee and her family.

Pita - I would agree with you that Kyle is young and has many life's lessons to learn if he hadn't been warned in the VERY BEGINNING.

Kyle is highly intelligent but if he's that naive then he has NO BUSINESS dealing with sensitive information because he has NO CLUE.

[crazybabyborg]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

[Kermit]

A question for ldstlou:

Since you are not a member of this private forum, how you know that this is where the info/pictures are from?

Give us a straight answer and at least back up something you are saying.

TIA

Yes I do know.

And I will not be a part of a cover-up, withholding of evidence illegally, or lying as a witness.



You know what, when I agree not to share information that people have asked me not to share, I don't.

Why don't you ask Kermit where she got them? She knows.