Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[Kermit]

Kermit says........
I highhandedly exposed the Aruba Cover-up!
You are trying to turn it into Kyle has been bashed!
common sense goes a long ways.

The only thing you have done is make hate and discontent IMO.  Those who are behind you, have alot to think about.  For what I know, "first hand" and what they don't, they'd be amazed on how you spewed only the half answers of what YOU want to be heard.  You have done nothing.  Go ahead and smear my name if it makes you feel good.......  Christian my ass.

I missed this comment Hotshot. Thanks for responding.

So this is all about your ego Kermit, just what I thought.

One more time, did you tell Beth that Kyle was withholding info from her, what was her response.

Did you call the FBI? What was their response?

Please go back and re-read the posts for your answers.

Your assumptions that I exposed the truth for my ego is wrong and offensive.
But I'll take your personally attacks at me with a grain of salt because I know you're miss-informed.

[ldstlou]

Pita  I understand what you are saying, but in this particular case nothing should have been kept from Beth.  She has proven time and time again that she can keep quiet and not reveal information that would have hurt the case.

This is really what angered me the most was that Beth was not informed completely about every little detail.  She had a right to know, and she should have been trusted.  I'm afraid that the decisions that were made were done for monitary gain.

If Kyle would come back here and explain his side I would listen.  I took the blinders off many years ago.

I would also like to say that I applaud the work the Freebirds have done.  They have done some amazing work.

What I don't understand is why the Persistence search had to be so secretive.  I don't see why that was necessary.  We already knew that Aruba wouldn't do the right thing.

It is my opinion that some motives were not honorable.

Why was there even a question about giving all of the information to Beth?

Why wasn't ALL of the information given to the FBI immediately?  Why?

It's time to take the gloves off and reveal what is known.  I truly don't believe at this point that any information revealed will prevent justice.

Snoopy, I have asked and asked Kermit, if she went to Beth and said I believe this info is being withheld. I have asked what Beth's response was to Kermit.

Did you discuss this with Beth kermit?

[San]

One more question Kermit.

Did YOU dicuss with Beth, your concerns that Kyle was withholding evidence from the family.
What was her response?

Lisa you are trying to get Kermit to answer questions so you can ask Jug to ask Beth if this happened.
 
Stop it already.

San I am asking legitimate questions!!!
If Kermit believes Kyle was withholding info, I would think Beth was the first person she would go to. I just want to know if she did and if Beth agreed?

How about we ask a bunch questions for Kyle and you can ask him to answer them for us.

I'm sure he won't mind.

[ldstlou]

Kermit says........
I highhandedly exposed the Aruba Cover-up!
You are trying to turn it into Kyle has been bashed!
common sense goes a long ways.

The only thing you have done is make hate and discontent IMO.  Those who are behind you, have alot to think about.  For what I know, "first hand" and what they don't, they'd be amazed on how you spewed only the half answers of what YOU want to be heard.  You have done nothing.  Go ahead and smear my name if it makes you feel good.......  Christian my ass.

I missed this comment Hotshot. Thanks for responding.

So this is all about your ego Kermit, just what I thought.

One more time, did you tell Beth that Kyle was withholding info from her, what was her response.

Did you call the FBI? What was their response?

Please go back and re-read the posts for your answers.

Your assumptions that I exposed the truth for my ego is wrong and offensive.
But I'll take your personally attacks at me with a grain of salt because I know you're miss-informed.

Can you save me the time and just tell me again?

[snoopy]

Kermit

Kyle stated that he was involved in the "sampling of the evidence".  Does that mean he actually physically seen the evidence or that he viewed it from the ROV monitor because in another statement it was said that the Aruban divers had their own boat.

Could you clarify this for us if you can since Kyle won't come back and answer some legitimate questions.

TIA

Hi Snoopy,

It is my understanding that according to Kyle, ONLY the ARUBAN divers took the evidence from the trap and they dove from their boat and returned to their boat with that evidence. No one on board the Persistence had that evidence that we can clearly see in the plastic bags. Kyle's expertise stated that it looked like blue denim in one of the bags and that it clearly moved with the current, indicating that it was material.

Thank you Kermit.  That's what I thought but was confused by the "sampling" part.

[Tamikosmom]

There appears to be some kind of power struggle going on.  I'd really like to know how others that were members of the "private" forum feel about Kermit's posts.  Seems there are some that are feeling betrayed by Kyle and others that feel betrayed by Kermit.  Personally, I don't know what to believe.

About the cage and the pics.  It looks to me that there very wll may have been human remains in that cage, who's remains I don't know.  What happened to the evidence from the cage I don't know.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  Information always leaks out, people always get mad.  That is why we have no private areas at SM.

The original ROV images ... the six that Kyle sent to the FBI and ... then passed on to Dave Holloway were posted in a private internet forum by his wife.  However ... the ROV images did not remain there.  As Klaas said, "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM".  Falling outs occur all the time and ... private no longer is private.

The recently ROV images that the Aruban were not given an opportunity to destroy ... images that were not among the six that Kyle originally sent to the FBI .. were sent in an email to Kermit by Kyle.  Also ... Kyle shared his concerns and observations with Kermit in email communications ... concerns and observations which implied that everything taking place aboad the Persistence was not about justice for Natalee Holloway.

Apparently ... according to Kermit ... once the search has ended ... Kyle's initial intentions were honorable.  He intended to share everything shared with Kermit ... observations, concerns and unrevealed ROV images ... with the FBI and the family of Natalee Holloway.  At this point in time ...  Kermit was quiet regarding all the Kyle had shared with him.

However ... somewhere along the line Kyle had a change of heart and ... rather than contacting the FBI and Natalee's family with his concerns, observations and ROV images ... he made the decision to make a deal by contacting major networks.  He would not back down and ... this is why ... rather than being a party to the apparent Persistance coverup ... Kermit contacted the FBI ... Natalee's family and shared his knowledge.  Only then did he post all her had been privied to by Kyle on the SM forum.

I for one am thankful.  I made a one time substantial donation through TES very early on to the planned search endeavor.  I believe that entitles me to be informed if maybe ... just maybe ... I was supporting a search and destroy evidence mission ... a mission where there was collaboration with those who have put a family through a H--- on Earth by protecting Joran and Paulus van der Sloot from participation in the events that encompasses the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the morning when an American citizen went missing and ... was never seen again.

IMO

Janet

[snoopy]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

Well dammit alright then.  lol

[Lifesong]

Kermit says........
I highhandedly exposed the Aruba Cover-up!
You are trying to turn it into Kyle has been bashed!
common sense goes a long ways.

The only thing you have done is make hate and discontent IMO.  Those who are behind you, have alot to think about.  For what I know, "first hand" and what they don't, they'd be amazed on how you spewed only the half answers of what YOU want to be heard.  You have done nothing.  Go ahead and smear my name if it makes you feel good.......  Christian my ass.

If I have only exposed 1/2 of the answers, please feel free to give the other 1/2.


If you feel it was moi who (in your words = "smeared" your name, you are mistaken.
I was informed about that information regarding your trip to Aruba with Bestbuddy.
You just stated it was true. How can you blame me for that? Upsurd.

Give it all to us, Kermit.

1/2 answers are only dividing us.  We can take it.

[ldstlou]

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

The information about the experts (names etc .)  or what there was in the cage ?

ALL INFORMATION was handed over to the individuals I listed.

I know that!
By whom? You? If you single handedly solved the conspiracy, than I am assuming you turned over the info to the family and FBI?

[Dana]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

Well dammit alright then.  lol

Kermit is a she ?
 

[Kermit]

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

The information about the experts (names etc .)  or what there was in the cage ?

ALL INFORMATION was handed over to the individuals I listed.

So the fbi, Dave and Beth know more than we know?
Or am i wrong ?

The information was not given to Beth nor Dave nor the FBI by Kyle. He admitted he withheld it.
FOR MONTHS after his return from the search in Aruba wherein he had photos and information.

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Recently, the information has been given to Beth, Dave and the FBI.

[texasmom]

I KNOW how you feel Janet!

[Edward]

These stupid mind games are insulting.

Or entertaining if One chooses NOT to play the games of Guess Who and Hide and Seek.

[ldstlou]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

Well dammit alright then.  lol

I'm in. I am not trying to divide anyone. I am just looking for all of the truth from kermit.

[Blonde]

Kermit
Who are the criminals here?  I am still confused...

Please help me understand this...you claim Kyle withheld evidence in a criminal case?  Right?  Can he not be prosecuted for that?  Have you turned him to the FBI for doing this?

Thanks.

I know that you are not confused, with all due respect, however, because I am on the hotseat by your group, I'll post it again:

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Explanation: Kyle gave the 6 photos that were posted on the Internet at BNH and leaked to SM, at which time Kyle accused Red of doing something wrong.

SEE this is against the law, to take evidence from Aruba to the USA now if he did for Beth to get answers then he would be a HERO, but if he did this for personal gain that would be Bullshit.
He most likely would still be in trouble with USA for doing this.

[ldstlou]

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

The information about the experts (names etc .)  or what there was in the cage ?

ALL INFORMATION was handed over to the individuals I listed.

So the fbi, Dave and Beth know more than we know?
Or am i wrong ?

The information was not given to Beth nor Dave nor the FBI by Kyle. He admitted he withheld it.
FOR MONTHS after his return from the search in Aruba wherein he had photos and information.

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Recently, the information has been given to Beth, Dave and the FBI.

Who gave it to them Kermit?

[ldstlou]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

Well dammit alright then.  lol

Kermit is a she ?
 

lol

[Lifesong]

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

The information about the experts (names etc .)  or what there was in the cage ?

ALL INFORMATION was handed over to the individuals I listed.

I know that!
By whom? You? If you single handedly solved the conspiracy, than I am assuming you turned over the info to the family and FBI?

Obfuscation.

The point is it wasn't Kyle who turned it over.

[Kermit]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

Well dammit alright then.  lol

Kermit is a she ?
 

For your evening show an oldie but goodie:

I am woman, hear me roar, if you don't open my door
I can do anything that a man can do, but I don't have too

[crazybabyborg]

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys! 

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!



 

Well dammit alright then.  lol

OK. Now get in those seperate corners and come out fighting to the lively case discussion!