Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[AZLady]

The word for the day, class, is OBFUSCATION

ob⋅fus⋅cate   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA Pronunciation 

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. 
3. to darken.

Sometimes the Monkeys call this misinformation or disinformation.  Characteristics of an obfuscator are:
1. repeating the same irrelevant and obtuse questions,
2. posting long quotes,
3. quoting yourself, ad infinatum,
4. focusing on minor and irrelevant points for pages and pages,
5. name-calling and hyperbole,
6. frequent use of capital letters and exclamation points to indicate excitability and emotion,
7. adopting an "I know this" attitude while never providing proof of knowledge,
8. and finally, when the obfuscator is uncovered, leaving the forum in an emotional outburst.

You know who you are.  The monkeys know who you are.  The monkeys are too smart to become distracted from the truth by the machinations of an obfuscator.

Class over.

[Kermit]

66 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -  on: December 04, 2008, 06:57:40 PM 
Quote from: Elaine on December 04, 2008, 06:47:33 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Kermit, according to what experts was Natalee in the cage?

Please read back, I answered this question.

[ldstlou]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

could be though that it is a no win situation for him and so he has chosen not to advance it.

Lisa, this is not about winning or losing THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH - NO MATTER WHERE IT LEADS

Rob, I don't have a problem with the truth. I want it as bad as anyone else here. I am just saying, it appears to me that kermit was privy to some information that the rest of us did not have access to. She chose to bring it to SM. I am not saying that is bad!!! No one better to investigate than the Monkeys. It's here and it's being discussed. but kermit doesn't have to bash kyle in the process!! It appears kyle gave her access to that info to begim with!!

Bottom line...kermit did not not "uncover" some great big conspiracy, she brought over information that was being discussed elsewhere. lets call a spade a spade is all I am saying. No need to tear apart Kyle to do that.

Please give it a rest.......You've made Your point....We have more important things to discuss without all of this hoopla....going on.....I mean this in the nicest way.....Seriously......

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

I wasn't aware of the Aruban authorities hiring the Persistence to search for Natalee, or of any funding that the Aruban authorities provided for this search for Natalee.  If the Persistence mission was only intended to provide every find from the mission to the Aruban authorities, we should have all been aware of that!  We should not have been ASKED what they should do with what they found!  They obviously didn't care what our responses were to that question, because if they indeed let them leave with every bit of evidence from that cage; that was the intent from the beginning.  If it wasn't what made them decide that was the RIGHT thing to do?  Free meals and drinks at Hooters, free lodging?  I want to know what made them decide to trust giving ALL of the evidence to the Aruban authorities!  I still hope I find out they didn't, when and if anyone decides we might have some kind of right to know this!

Do you think the crew of the Persistence had any say in that? They were in aruban waters. arubans were calling the shots. Do you remember how many times Tim Miller wanted to go back and search and they said no. Could it be that it was out of their hands?

I'm sorry but I don't agree.  When dealing with shady  bas....ds you do whatcha gotta do.  They  (the Persistence)should have went down to that trap while videoing to protect the chain of command......investigated the trap........while documenting everything and then called in the Aruban authorities.  I would have also told their sorry asses that I had already gone down there....documented everything......taken a sample and now they can do whatever they want to.  Keep their feet to the fire and keep them honest.  They wouldn't have had a choice but to do the right thing.  But that wasn't done.  That's a shame and they should have known better.

I agree.
It's not like the RV Persistence, it's crew and it's owner didn't know about the Arubans, that is why they were called in!

December 30 Kyle says John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant

no shit sherlock...thats your big revelation?

[snoopy]

Meanwhile, Beth and Dave suffer and Natalee remains dead for another Christmas. And all this energy is wasted.

At a moment when we are starting, long over-due, to look at the first 48 hours and a direct  accusation of what we've known all along, you're focusing of underwater pictures?

Skipping past the van der straaten involvement, the van der sloot house, and the actual crimes committed against Natalee in her last moments?

And by Paulus van der sloot when she was alive.

How can anyone picture Natalee's face right now and waste time making this about anything other than bringing her home?

Confrontation can be a great moment in the creative process but this ain't it.

Frank you're like a breath of fresh air.

[Kermit]

The word for the day, class, is OBFUSCATION

ob⋅fus⋅cate   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA Pronunciation 

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. 
3. to darken.

Sometimes the Monkeys call this misinformation or disinformation.  Characteristics of an obfuscator are:
1. repeating the same irrelevant and obtuse questions,
2. posting long quotes,
3. quoting yourself, ad infinatum,
4. focusing on minor and irrelevant points for pages and pages,
5. name-calling and hyperbole,
6. frequent use of capital letters and exclamation points to indicate excitability and emotion,
7. adopting an "I know this" attitude while never providing proof of knowledge,
8. and finally, when the obfuscator is uncovered, leaving the forum in an emotional outburst.

You know who you are.  The monkeys know who you are.  The monkeys are too smart to become distracted from the truth by the machinations of an obfuscator.

Class over.

 

I LOVE that word.
Someone very intelligent posted it and when I saw it, I jotted it down in a mental note. Have to use that one day.

THANK YOU for bringing to our attention.

 

[ldstlou]

The word for the day, class, is OBFUSCATION

ob⋅fus⋅cate   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA Pronunciation 

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. 
3. to darken.

Sometimes the Monkeys call this misinformation or disinformation.  Characteristics of an obfuscator are:
1. repeating the same irrelevant and obtuse questions,
2. posting long quotes,
3. quoting yourself, ad infinatum,
4. focusing on minor and irrelevant points for pages and pages,
5. name-calling and hyperbole,
6. frequent use of capital letters and exclamation points to indicate excitability and emotion,
7. adopting an "I know this" attitude while never providing proof of knowledge,
8. and finally, when the obfuscator is uncovered, leaving the forum in an emotional outburst.

You know who you are.  The monkeys know who you are.  The monkeys are too smart to become distracted from the truth by the machinations of an obfuscator.

Class over.

Kermit correct?

[johan555]

So the  FBI  has the entire tape  ? Or only 6 screencaps ?

[Kermit]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

could be though that it is a no win situation for him and so he has chosen not to advance it.

Lisa, this is not about winning or losing THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH - NO MATTER WHERE IT LEADS

Rob, I don't have a problem with the truth. I want it as bad as anyone else here. I am just saying, it appears to me that kermit was privy to some information that the rest of us did not have access to. She chose to bring it to SM. I am not saying that is bad!!! No one better to investigate than the Monkeys. It's here and it's being discussed. but kermit doesn't have to bash kyle in the process!! It appears kyle gave her access to that info to begim with!!

Bottom line...kermit did not not "uncover" some great big conspiracy, she brought over information that was being discussed elsewhere. lets call a spade a spade is all I am saying. No need to tear apart Kyle to do that.

Please give it a rest.......You've made Your point....We have more important things to discuss without all of this hoopla....going on.....I mean this in the nicest way.....Seriously......

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

I wasn't aware of the Aruban authorities hiring the Persistence to search for Natalee, or of any funding that the Aruban authorities provided for this search for Natalee.  If the Persistence mission was only intended to provide every find from the mission to the Aruban authorities, we should have all been aware of that!  We should not have been ASKED what they should do with what they found!  They obviously didn't care what our responses were to that question, because if they indeed let them leave with every bit of evidence from that cage; that was the intent from the beginning.  If it wasn't what made them decide that was the RIGHT thing to do?  Free meals and drinks at Hooters, free lodging?  I want to know what made them decide to trust giving ALL of the evidence to the Aruban authorities!  I still hope I find out they didn't, when and if anyone decides we might have some kind of right to know this!

Do you think the crew of the Persistence had any say in that? They were in aruban waters. arubans were calling the shots. Do you remember how many times Tim Miller wanted to go back and search and they said no. Could it be that it was out of their hands?

I'm sorry but I don't agree.  When dealing with shady  bas....ds you do whatcha gotta do.  They  (the Persistence)should have went down to that trap while videoing to protect the chain of command......investigated the trap........while documenting everything and then called in the Aruban authorities.  I would have also told their sorry asses that I had already gone down there....documented everything......taken a sample and now they can do whatever they want to.  Keep their feet to the fire and keep them honest.  They wouldn't have had a choice but to do the right thing.  But that wasn't done.  That's a shame and they should have known better.

I agree.
It's not like the RV Persistence, it's crew and it's owner didn't know about the Arubans, that is why they were called in!

December 30 Kyle says John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant

no shit sherlock...thats your big revelation?

Are you addressing me or Pita?

[ldstlou]

Meanwhile, Beth and Dave suffer and Natalee remains dead for another Christmas. And all this energy is wasted.

At a moment when we are starting, long over-due, to look at the first 48 hours and a direct  accusation of what we've known all along, you're focusing of underwater pictures?

Skipping past the van der straaten involvement, the van der sloot house, and the actual crimes committed against Natalee in her last moments?

And by Paulus van der sloot when she was alive.

How can anyone picture Natalee's face right now and waste time making this about anything other than bringing her home?

Confrontation can be a great moment in the creative process but this ain't it.

Frank you're like a breath of fresh air.

I posted the same thing the other day, I was told not to tell the monkeys what to discuss and what not to discuss.

[Sue]

OT



We need the real stuff for ths one enjoy

[AZLady]

The word for the day, class, is OBFUSCATION

ob⋅fus⋅cate   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA Pronunciation 

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. 
3. to darken.

Sometimes the Monkeys call this misinformation or disinformation.  Characteristics of an obfuscator are:
1. repeating the same irrelevant and obtuse questions,
2. posting long quotes,
3. quoting yourself, ad infinatum,
4. focusing on minor and irrelevant points for pages and pages,
5. name-calling and hyperbole,
6. frequent use of capital letters and exclamation points to indicate excitability and emotion,
7. adopting an "I know this" attitude while never providing proof of knowledge,
8. and finally, when the obfuscator is uncovered, leaving the forum in an emotional outburst.

You know who you are.  The monkeys know who you are.  The monkeys are too smart to become distracted from the truth by the machinations of an obfuscator.

Class over.

Kermit correct?

No.  YOU.  Otherwise known as ldstlou.  Is that one clear enough for you?

[Kermit]

So the  FBI  has the entire tape  ? Or only 6 screencaps ?

All things Holloway were stripped from the boat. Kyle said.
The video, the logs etc. John Silvetti has that.

FBI, has in their possession the information I know about.

That is all I will elaborate at this time about.

[ldstlou]

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

could be though that it is a no win situation for him and so he has chosen not to advance it.

Lisa, this is not about winning or losing THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH - NO MATTER WHERE IT LEADS

Rob, I don't have a problem with the truth. I want it as bad as anyone else here. I am just saying, it appears to me that kermit was privy to some information that the rest of us did not have access to. She chose to bring it to SM. I am not saying that is bad!!! No one better to investigate than the Monkeys. It's here and it's being discussed. but kermit doesn't have to bash kyle in the process!! It appears kyle gave her access to that info to begim with!!

Bottom line...kermit did not not "uncover" some great big conspiracy, she brought over information that was being discussed elsewhere. lets call a spade a spade is all I am saying. No need to tear apart Kyle to do that.

Please give it a rest.......You've made Your point....We have more important things to discuss without all of this hoopla....going on.....I mean this in the nicest way.....Seriously......

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

I wasn't aware of the Aruban authorities hiring the Persistence to search for Natalee, or of any funding that the Aruban authorities provided for this search for Natalee.  If the Persistence mission was only intended to provide every find from the mission to the Aruban authorities, we should have all been aware of that!  We should not have been ASKED what they should do with what they found!  They obviously didn't care what our responses were to that question, because if they indeed let them leave with every bit of evidence from that cage; that was the intent from the beginning.  If it wasn't what made them decide that was the RIGHT thing to do?  Free meals and drinks at Hooters, free lodging?  I want to know what made them decide to trust giving ALL of the evidence to the Aruban authorities!  I still hope I find out they didn't, when and if anyone decides we might have some kind of right to know this!

Do you think the crew of the Persistence had any say in that? They were in aruban waters. arubans were calling the shots. Do you remember how many times Tim Miller wanted to go back and search and they said no. Could it be that it was out of their hands?

I'm sorry but I don't agree.  When dealing with shady  bas....ds you do whatcha gotta do.  They  (the Persistence)should have went down to that trap while videoing to protect the chain of command......investigated the trap........while documenting everything and then called in the Aruban authorities.  I would have also told their sorry asses that I had already gone down there....documented everything......taken a sample and now they can do whatever they want to.  Keep their feet to the fire and keep them honest.  They wouldn't have had a choice but to do the right thing.  But that wasn't done.  That's a shame and they should have known better.

I agree.
It's not like the RV Persistence, it's crew and it's owner didn't know about the Arubans, that is why they were called in!

December 30 Kyle says John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant

no shit sherlock...thats your big revelation?

Are you addressing me or Pita?

you, and you know why. You know what caused Kyle to change his mind because you were in the forum where he was sharing his doubts about what transpired after. So what is the big revelation here?

[blah]

66 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -  on: December 04, 2008, 06:57:40 PM 
Quote from: Elaine on December 04, 2008, 06:47:33 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Kermit, according to what experts was Natalee in the cage?

Please read back, I answered this question.

No you didnt,  Unless you were alluding to the FBI

[ldstlou]

The word for the day, class, is OBFUSCATION

ob⋅fus⋅cate   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA Pronunciation 

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. 
3. to darken.

Sometimes the Monkeys call this misinformation or disinformation.  Characteristics of an obfuscator are:
1. repeating the same irrelevant and obtuse questions,
2. posting long quotes,
3. quoting yourself, ad infinatum,
4. focusing on minor and irrelevant points for pages and pages,
5. name-calling and hyperbole,
6. frequent use of capital letters and exclamation points to indicate excitability and emotion,
7. adopting an "I know this" attitude while never providing proof of knowledge,
8. and finally, when the obfuscator is uncovered, leaving the forum in an emotional outburst.

You know who you are.  The monkeys know who you are.  The monkeys are too smart to become distracted from the truth by the machinations of an obfuscator.

Class over.

Kermit correct?

No.  YOU.  Otherwise known as ldstlou.  Is that one clear enough for you?

just like to see it in black and white. thank you.

[Kermit]

Okay it's been interesting.

I'm off to find a fly.

AND I'm hoping Mister DANA will play my song!

 

[klaasend]

OT



We need the real stuff for ths one enjoy

I can almost smell it 

[crazybabyborg]

There are other Mods here, and so is Klassend. This Mod has had enough of the personal sarcasm directed at any  specific poster.. Make your point without it.

[Kermit]

66 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -  on: December 04, 2008, 06:57:40 PM 
Quote from: Elaine on December 04, 2008, 06:47:33 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.

Kermit, according to what experts was Natalee in the cage?

Please read back, I answered this question.

No you didnt,  Unless you were alluding to the FBI

 Please re-back blah. I answered the post by johann.
I believe I answered it as best as I can.

[AZLady]

ldstlou wrote: you, and you know why. You know what caused Kyle to change his mind because you were in the forum where he was sharing his doubts about what transpired after. So what is the big revelation here?
The "big revelation" (written with a snearing and derogatory attitude) is that Kermit brought the Monkeys pictures they had not seen before to discuss and emails from someone on the scene for explanations.  Yup, it is a BIG REVELATION, but probably not in the way you attempted to describe.