Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[caesu]

the trap story doesn't embarrass the Dutch.

The Croes comments do.

The Dutch won't act regarding anything related to Natalee's body once she left the island, if she did.

The Dutch will act if what Croes says is true and continues to EMBARRASS them.

The trap doesn't embarrass them.

Jan van der straaten and Paulus van der sloot do.

that's exactly right!

in a proper democracy now the Aruban Parliament should force Rudy Croes to resign.
but that is not going to happen because the MEP party has absolute majority.
al Government Minister are MEP. and Rudy Croes is brother of 'the founding father' of Aruba, Betico Croes.
there is absolutely no accountability there.

in the Dutch Parliament it's different.
there is accountability there if there is enough outrage.

a few weeks ago a Dutch minister (Vogelaar) had to resign because on Curaçao she announced there wasn't going to be a VIA - a index in which criminal Arubans/Antillians are listed.
Aruba and the Antilles were very happy! for one day, because the next day the Minister had to resign and the VIA was back on the table.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/11/integration_minister_quits_as.php

According to media reports, the final straw was Vogelaar’s decision not to go ahead with plans to set up a separate register listing the names of Antillean youths who are considered to be trouble-makers – a move backed by both the cabinet and Labour.

the VIA is another problem point for Aruba/Antilles - they find the VIA racist, this also might come up next week again.
but there is word that there is going to be a 'toned down' VIA, they can agree with.

but Croes embarrassed the Dutch government big time.
for one thing the Jan van der Straten/Paul van der Sloot revelation.
but even more embarrasing is that Croes said that a Dutch Minister wanted Joran to be portrayed as a Aruban.
that's code language for calling a Dutch Minister a racist.

you won't see me commenting on the cage. i found it all too disturbing.
but think about this: even if Croes, Paul van der Sloot, everybody on Aruba would admit everything - plead guiltly - just go al the way - even then there might be NO prosecution.
and the Aruban Parliament won't do one thing. there is no accountability.

so for me the only route is can see is the have the Dutch Parliament demand from Dutch Justice Minister Hirsch Ballin use the article 43.
in the Aruban newspaper this possibility is already mentioned:

According to Bikker the accusation of Croes made it possible that 'The Kingdom' by using article 43 of the Statute will step in.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_50203.php

in the past as far as i know this the use of this article is only used twice:
-in 1969 there were riots on Curaçao. Half of Willemstad was burned down.


Photo appeared on the frontpage of NY Times. Dutch Marines had to restore order.
Major embarassement.
ever since 1969 the Dutch hesitate to step in, because they don't want to be seen as a colonial power.

rather the Dutch wanted to get rid of the colonies altogether.
so they forced Suriname to become independent. but this was a disaster which let to a military junta (Bouterse).

so the Aruba didn't want to get fully independent anymore. just independent from the Antilles (Curaçao).
just enough autonomy to create their little banana-republic but keep a financial and defence life-line to The Netherlands.

-in 1999 in Curaçao the Dutch ordered to improve the conditions in the Koraal Specht prison.

but a few times more the use of article 43 is threatened.

[Tamikosmom]

The following is the fourth updated compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: march 18, 2008: If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »

Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »

Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »

May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #275 on: December 05, 2008, 07:05:44 PM »

Kyle said: "Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.
- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line.

Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568246;topicseen#msg568246


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #524 on: December 05, 2008, 11:59:23 PM

kyle stated: "Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568677;topicseen#msg568677


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #177 on: Today at 05:36:40 PM »

B. Kyle stated: " The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570229#msg570229


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #149 on: Today at 05:21:08 PM »

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570184#msg570184


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: Today at 05:20:41 PM »

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570183#msg570183


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: Today at 05:20:41 PM »

From Kyle: I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570182#msg570182

[snoopy]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

[ldstlou]

Janet, it's been a long weekend..lol...but I think I have a better understanding of what all happened. If I don't have the answers, I will ask. If I have been asked not to tell something, I will let you know that.
How can I help you figure this out?

[Frank]

Helen,

Thanks for the link, I posted it on my blog. I think I'll pick one or 2 every day and email them, ask they why?

I'll ask them how they will sleep this Christmas, how they'll eat and make sure I attach a picture of Natalee.

I want them to feel the burn of Shame these cowards live in every day.

[snoopy]

Janet, it's been a long weekend..lol...but I think I have a better understanding of what all happened. If I don't have the answers, I will ask. If I have been asked not to tell something, I will let you know that.
How can I help you figure this out?

ldstlou tell the monkeys what you have told me.  I will stand with you, but I still have reservations about Tim Trahan and Jon Silvettie's motives.  I told you how I felt.

I need to fix supper and will be back later.

I stand with Natalee and her family. 

[Tamikosmom]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Keepthefaith if you want those questions aswered, you may want to ask the other team members of the Persistance.  kyle cant answer to things that were done by others.  his job was To look at all video footage on that ship and find targets.  That was what he was paid to do.  That is his proffession.  Who sent what, why, when, where, was not upto him.  I am out of here for the night, going into lurk mode.  I have not posted for a long time prior to this, and I see why that was now.  But at least you got some answers to your questions.  Now go to someone who will give you the rest of the correct answers.  Call them, its not a hard thing to do.  

 HotShot"Again, i cant make anyone believe or agree, and thats fine.  You'll see in the end who is who, and what was right and wrong."

Again.So you know the end of the Story.Is that what your implying??

[ldstlou]

Janet, it's been a long weekend..lol...but I think I have a better understanding of what all happened. If I don't have the answers, I will ask. If I have been asked not to tell something, I will let you know that.
How can I help you figure this out?

ldstlou tell the monkeys what you have told me.  I will stand with you, but I still have reservations about Tim Trahan and Jon Silvettie's motives.  I told you how I felt.

I need to fix supper and will be back later.

I stand with Natalee and her family. 

I am still making sure I have permission, then I will. thanks Snoopy.

[ldstlou]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

Thats not what happened at all Janet, it really isn't.

[Keepthefaith]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

Thats not what happened at all Janet, it really isn't.

Monkey's are patiently waiting..

[snoopy]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

What I am finding out is that while Kyle did not send any pictures / video after Dec. 29th that others from the Persistence did send them.

I'm going to keep an open mind a little longer about Kyle.  Kermit makes a very good argument with what he/she has told us.  I am waiting for Kyles rebuttal. 

[ldstlou]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

Thats not what happened at all Janet, it really isn't.

Monkey's are patiently waiting..

where do you want me to start?

[snoopy]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

Thats not what happened at all Janet, it really isn't.

Monkey's are patiently waiting..

where do you want me to start?

ldstlou take your time and lay it out there.  I will stand with you.

[ldstlou]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

What I am finding out is that while Kyle did not send any pictures / video after Dec. 29th that others from the Persistence did send them.

I'm going to keep an open mind a little longer about Kyle.  Kermit makes a very good argument with what he/she has told us.  I am waiting for Kyles rebuttal. 

That is correct. It was not Kyles responsibility to hand off the videos to the FBI and family, but they were given to the FBI and family immediately by other members of the Persistence. I don't know the context of the remarks by Kyle, you have to remember this was being discussed in a forum. Questions were being asked and answered openly. These are not private e-mails. Nothing was being hidden. In fact, Kyle was asked to this forum to discuss his experiences on the search. So did Kyle hand these photos to the FBI..no...did the FBI have them..well they certainly had the video these came from.

[Keepthefaith]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

Thats not what happened at all Janet, it really isn't.

Monkey's are patiently waiting..

where do you want me to start?

Whatever is the truth and backed by facts.I don't think there's a Monkey in here who won't change their mind given truth and logic!I for one hope i'm wrong.

[ldstlou]

I type slow so you have to be patient!! lol

[snoopy]

Hotshot

I wasn't going to get involved, however,  the evidence and recovery dive was January 7th.  Only the preliminary pics were Dec. 29.

Kyle did not give anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th-  true.   There was nothing else to send the FBI. They obviously already had the videos.  They were already sent prior to that date.   

"since" is the word.  And the other recordings "jan 7" were sent by other team members on the boat.  Klaas, I am working on your reply now, and then I myself am off for the night.  There is no reasoning here.  I don't know what I have done to be treated in such a manner, or disliked so much, but, I do stand with the girl, and her parents.  And will continue to do so till this case is final.  

Hotshot I don't have a problem with you.  I know you want Justice for Natalee.  My question was when did the family and FBI recieve the pictures/video?   I think you have given me my answer in that they were sent in a timely manner.  Thank you.

Snoopy ... that is not a good enough answers for me.

Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family and ... a moral obligation to financial supporters dictated that ... Kyle should have turned over the ROV images and ... shared  with the FBI and/or family his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the chain of custody of the contents of the cage IMMEDIATELY after arriving in the USA.  According to Kermit ... that had been Kyle's initial plan but ... this young man had a change of heart and ... sharing with on a private forum and ... share with an internet poster by email and  ... contacting networks to make a deal was where it was at.

Janet

What I am finding out is that while Kyle did not send any pictures / video after Dec. 29th that others from the Persistence did send them.

I'm going to keep an open mind a little longer about Kyle.  Kermit makes a very good argument with what he/she has told us.  I am waiting for Kyles rebuttal. 

That is correct. It was not Kyles responsibility to hand off the videos to the FBI and family, but they were given to the FBI and family immediately by other members of the Persistence. I don't know the context of the remarks by Kyle, you have to remember this was being discussed in a forum. Questions were being asked and answered openly. These are not private e-mails. Nothing was being hidden. In fact, Kyle was asked to this forum to discuss his experiences on the search. So did Kyle hand these photos to the FBI..no...did the FBI have them..well they certainly had the video these came from.

Now will you if you can please explain what Kyle may have meant by "strike a deal".

[Keepthefaith]

I type slow so you have to be patient!! lol

Take your time.I hope there's a logical explanation to all of this.

[ldstlou]

My understanding is that after the arubans went down to recover the contents of the trap, the members of the Persistence had thought they would bring the contents of the cage back onto the ship, instead they entered their own boat and off they went, so the crew of the Persistence never saw the evidence. This in itself did not alarm them because at that point, they did not believe Natalee was in the cage anymore. It was this action by the arubans, along with a series of other suspicious events that caused Kyle to have real concern with what was in the cage afterall.
Additional information that came out months after the search really caused concern for Kyle and so he sought out Beth to discuss the findings. The concerns were sent to Beth and Kyle was invited to a private forum to discuss what had transpired on the search and after. The posts by kermit are not her theories, but rather posts copied and pasted here from the forum where Kyle and others were disseminating the information.