Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[Lifesong]

So...

Kermit says that the FBI did not have the footage of the dive on Jan 7th that Kyle surreptiously took with the ROV camera.

Ldstlou says that the FBI did have that footage, it was sent shortly after the dive by someone else on the Persistence team, therefore Kyle didn't need to send it to the FBI.

I don't know who is telling the truth, but they can't both be true.  Quite possibly its just a misunderstanding and no one is lying.

Ldstlou - thank you so much for coming back and having this amicable conversation with us. 

I need to say this to those who are concerned for Kyle: 
I'm completely disappointed that the Persistence team or their leadership allowed ALE to get the contents of the trap.  Right or wrong, I did expect better of them.  That said, not a single person on that team is responsible for what happened to Natalee on the island of Aruba.  We know who the real culprits are and they were not a part of the ocean search.  This is a side issue, we should all keep that in mind.

Peace to all monkeys. 

If Lou is correct ... I cannot only assume that both Kyle and Kermit must be lying.

Janet

++++++++

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

ROV Images:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

God bless you, Janet!  I looked for that first quote and couldn't find it.  Was actually hoping you'd respond with the backup, you're so good with the documentation!  We should stop everyday and tell you how lucky we are to have you here.  I mean that.

Ldstlou, can you clear this up?  How do you know the FBI had the footage from the dive on January 7th?  Who on the Persistence team sent it to them shortly after the dive?  Whose word precisely are we taking on this?

I have to get a firm statement on this. Here is what I do know. Hope this helps.
Members of Quantico were on the Persistence, they were there when the dive was done on the 30th and actually told a member of Dateline it was not Natalee and they could use the footage in the show. Members of the Persistence did not learn this until later and called Dateline and got them to NOT air the footage. The FBI told Dateline they could not air the full footage of the case because it was under investigation. Dateline had to take the additional footage out of their show, so I know they had the footage based on this info.

did that come out right? When FBI found out Dateline was going to air the whole footage of the dive on the 30th, the FBI called them and stopped it because they said the footage was under investigation by the FBI.  Dateline was allowed to air anything that was not evidence. FBI says contents were under investigation by themselves and forced Dateline not to air the full video

We're getting there!  My original post quoted up there was referring to the footage of the Jan. 7th dive from which the still shots that Kermit posted on SM were taken from. 

It sounds like you're talking about the footage from Dec. 30th.

I've edited my original question above to ask it more clearly.

[ldstlou]

Lou

You claim that Beth and Dave have no complaint with the search effort of the Persistence.  If they are aware of what Kyle has revealed in his own words ... I find that hard to believe.  I am devasted ... I want answers and ... Natalee is not my daughter.

Janet

No one knows what happened with the evidence after the arubans took off with it, but if there was foul play,  the family does not think Kyle was involved, that is for sure.

[ldstlou]

We're getting there!  My original post quoted up there was referring to the footage of the Jan. 7th dive from which the still shots that Kermit posted on SM were taken from. 

It sounds like you're talking about the footage from Dec. 30th.

I've edited my original question above to ask it more clearly.

I am referring to all footage.

[Keepthefaith]

Well that opens up a whole new realm of possibilities!  Now we can only hope and pray that sometime between the 30th of December and the 7th of January that samples were taken by the FBI to be tested; and compared to what they received from the Aruban authorities.  All logic tells me that this was done; if it wasn't....I don't know what to think because giving up just isn't an option!

Hmmm..from what I remember, I only heard that the sample of the blouse, turned over to the FBI by ALE, was not Natalee's.
Yes, Logic also implies to me that someone had to collect samples before ALE divers removed (and probably destroyed) any evidence caught on ROV videos.
There seems to be a lot of play on words on what exactly was/wasn't sampled/videoed/collected by ALE/turned over to fbi, etc.
Maybe there is a lot more behind the scenes that we haven't heard that could explain the inconsistencies.

For me BillB that is my hope!If no one From the American side of things,recovered samples from that cage it is a horrifying thought.The definition of incompetence or
C-O-V-E-R-U-P..End of story for me..

[snoopy]

ldstlou can you clear up for us if the family had knowledge of the additional pictures from the January 7th dive and did they receive those pictures in a timely manner?  TIA

Also can you verify that this information came from a family member.

I know they received them I honestly don't know when and I don't think Kyle has any idea when exactly they received them, it was out of his hands. I know that I showed the photos to Jug and he said none of the information we have discussing was new to them or had been withheld from them.
I know some have doubted Jug's knowledge of the matter, but I trust Jug and I have never known him to comment on something he doesn't have knowledge on. I trust his word.

That's good enough for me.  Thank you for coming back here ldstlou and helping to clear some things up.  I know that you only seek the truth and justice for Natalee.  But girlfriend I gotta tell ya sometimes you don't spit it out very good. lol  I know this evening discussion has helped me clear some things up.

I still have a lot of questions concerning Silvetti / Trahan.  I know we don't agree on that. 

[ldstlou]

I think I am done. Hope that helped you all. Hope too you understand why now I was so upset. It wasn't that the information ended up here, this was all new to me also. I just felt if it was being brought here to discuss, it was only fair to understand where it came from.

[Hotshot]

Janet
Caps is not a bad guy here.  He has done nothing but try to help Dave Hollaway find his daughter.  I refuse to let anyone say otherwise.  I know how many times he has had contact with Dave and Tim concerning the pond. Caps is not the bad guy and he should not be connected with the Persistence stuff that has been bandied about for the past week.  Caps did not know who any of them until some of us prodded him in their direction.  I am not willing to let his name be muddied in all of this.  I don't care what you think...but I will stand by Caps as trying to help Natalee's family the best he could.  We will have to disagree on this one.

Lala's Thank-you.  I have been saying this all along, but my word is muddied around here.  But you have put it alot better then what I have in the past.  You, Lisa, and pita did a great job explaining tonight.  Kudos to you all.

[Keepthefaith]

ldstlou can you clear up for us if the family had knowledge of the additional pictures from the January 7th dive and did they receive those pictures in a timely manner?  TIA

Also can you verify that this information came from a family member.

I know they received them I honestly don't know when and I don't think Kyle has any idea when exactly they received them, it was out of his hands. I know that I showed the photos to Jug and he said none of the information we have discussing was new to them or had been withheld from them.
I know some have doubted Jug's knowledge of the matter, but I trust Jug and I have never known him to comment on something he doesn't have knowledge on. I trust his word.

That's good enough for me.  Thank you for coming back here ldstlou and helping to clear some things up.  I know that you only seek the truth and justice for Natalee.  But girlfriend I gotta tell ya sometimes you don't spit it out very good. lol  I know this evening discussion has helped me clear some things up.

I still have a lot of questions concerning Silvetti / Trahan.  I know we don't agree on that. 

No passes from me until i hear what Kermit has to say.This just pisses me off.Is Kyle still working for Silvetti or schaeffer????

[Lifesong]

We're getting there!  My original post quoted up there was referring to the footage of the Jan. 7th dive from which the still shots that Kermit posted on SM were taken from. 

It sounds like you're talking about the footage from Dec. 30th.

I've edited my original question above to ask it more clearly.

I am referring to all footage.

Sorry - I did a poor job of making that clear! 

Kermit says the FBI didn't have the Jan 7th footage until recently. 
You've said they received it shortly after Kyle filmed it from another member of the Persistence team.  This is the Jan. 7th footage, not the Dec 30th.

Here's my question, and I apologize if this is getting redundant for you.

How do you know the FBI had the footage from the dive on January 7th?  Who on the Persistence team sent it to them shortly after the dive?  Whose word precisely are we taking on this?

[ldstlou]

ldstlou can you clear up for us if the family had knowledge of the additional pictures from the January 7th dive and did they receive those pictures in a timely manner?  TIA

Also can you verify that this information came from a family member.

I know they received them I honestly don't know when and I don't think Kyle has any idea when exactly they received them, it was out of his hands. I know that I showed the photos to Jug and he said none of the information we have discussing was new to them or had been withheld from them.
I know some have doubted Jug's knowledge of the matter, but I trust Jug and I have never known him to comment on something he doesn't have knowledge on. I trust his word.

That's good enough for me.  Thank you for coming back here ldstlou and helping to clear some things up.  I know that you only seek the truth and justice for Natalee.  But girlfriend I gotta tell ya sometimes you don't spit it out very good. lol  I know this evening discussion has helped me clear some things up.

I still have a lot of questions concerning Silvetti / Trahan.  I know we don't agree on that. 

Thanks Snoop!! And thanks for pointing out how I was coming across the wrong way. You know I need you and Sunny to help me out!! lol
My intentions were pure though, hope you know that.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet
Caps is not a bad guy here.  He has done nothing but try to help Dave Hollaway find his daughter.  I refuse to let anyone say otherwise.  I know how many times he has had contact with Dave and Tim concerning the pond. Caps is not the bad guy and he should not be connected with the Persistence stuff that has been bandied about for the past week.  Caps did not know who any of them until some of us prodded him in their direction.  I am not willing to let his name be muddied in all of this.  I don't care what you think...but I will stand by Caps as trying to help Natalee's family the best he could.  We will have to disagree on this one.

However ... it appears that I do not have your permission to openly disagree.  Your instruction are specific. LEAVE CAPS OUT OF THIS!

Lala'sMom ... in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway ... I will not turn a blind eye to any poster I honestly believe has placed himself on a Natalee forum to further the Aruban agenda  of erecting smokescreens for the purpose of distracting from the truth ecompassing the morning of May 30, 2001.

Anyways ... I have made a choice to keep a low profile on the CAPS issue other than to state my opinion ... which I have.  Now I will just be patient and ... time will tell if I am right or wrong.

Janet

[SuzieQ]

{I have to get a firm statement on this. Here is what I do know. Hope this helps.
Members of Quantico were on the Persistence, they were there when the dive was done on the 30th and actually told a member of Dateline it was not Natalee and they could use the footage in the show. Members of the Persistence did not learn this until later and called Dateline and got them to NOT air the footage. The FBI told Dateline they could not air the full footage of the case because it was under investigation. Dateline had to take the additional footage out of their show, so I know they had the footage based on this info.


did that come out right? When FBI found out Dateline was going to air the whole footage of the dive on the 30th, the FBI called them and stopped it because they said the footage was under investigation by the FBI.  Dateline was allowed to air anything that was not evidence. FBI says contents were under investigation by themselves and forced Dateline not to air the full video}

ldstlou,
Members of Quantico are the FBI. Are you saying that the FBI were on the boat from the beginning. 

[ldstlou]

{I have to get a firm statement on this. Here is what I do know. Hope this helps.
Members of Quantico were on the Persistence, they were there when the dive was done on the 30th and actually told a member of Dateline it was not Natalee and they could use the footage in the show. Members of the Persistence did not learn this until later and called Dateline and got them to NOT air the footage. The FBI told Dateline they could not air the full footage of the case because it was under investigation. Dateline had to take the additional footage out of their show, so I know they had the footage based on this info.


did that come out right? When FBI found out Dateline was going to air the whole footage of the dive on the 30th, the FBI called them and stopped it because they said the footage was under investigation by the FBI.  Dateline was allowed to air anything that was not evidence. FBI says contents were under investigation by themselves and forced Dateline not to air the full video}

ldstlou,
Members of Quantico are the FBI. Are you saying that the FBI were on the boat from the beginning. 

I know they were there on  the 30th. I will ask if they were there before and after and get back to you tomorrow.

[snoopy]

ldstlou can you clear up for us if the family had knowledge of the additional pictures from the January 7th dive and did they receive those pictures in a timely manner?  TIA

Also can you verify that this information came from a family member.

I know they received them I honestly don't know when and I don't think Kyle has any idea when exactly they received them, it was out of his hands. I know that I showed the photos to Jug and he said none of the information we have discussing was new to them or had been withheld from them.
I know some have doubted Jug's knowledge of the matter, but I trust Jug and I have never known him to comment on something he doesn't have knowledge on. I trust his word.

That's good enough for me.  Thank you for coming back here ldstlou and helping to clear some things up.  I know that you only seek the truth and justice for Natalee.  But girlfriend I gotta tell ya sometimes you don't spit it out very good. lol  I know this evening discussion has helped me clear some things up.

I still have a lot of questions concerning Silvetti / Trahan.  I know we don't agree on that. 

No passes from me until i hear what Kermit has to say.This just pisses me off.Is Kyle still working for Silvetti or schaeffer????

It's good enough for me what ldstlou says because it comes straight from Jug.  I too am still willing to listen to Kermit.  I'm pissed too.  We all deserve answers.  And nobody likes being lied to. Or being mislead.  Keep the Faith Keepthefaith. lol

[ldstlou]

Just one more note and then I have to get to bed. It is my understanding that kermit was a member of this private forum that Kyle discussed all this information with, that she was a part of the discussions. I believe she can answer a lot of the questions much better than I can. I think she should be answering them since she introduced the subject here.

[snoopy]

ldstlou can you clear up for us if the family had knowledge of the additional pictures from the January 7th dive and did they receive those pictures in a timely manner?  TIA

Also can you verify that this information came from a family member.

I know they received them I honestly don't know when and I don't think Kyle has any idea when exactly they received them, it was out of his hands. I know that I showed the photos to Jug and he said none of the information we have discussing was new to them or had been withheld from them.
I know some have doubted Jug's knowledge of the matter, but I trust Jug and I have never known him to comment on something he doesn't have knowledge on. I trust his word.

That's good enough for me.  Thank you for coming back here ldstlou and helping to clear some things up.  I know that you only seek the truth and justice for Natalee.  But girlfriend I gotta tell ya sometimes you don't spit it out very good. lol  I know this evening discussion has helped me clear some things up.

I still have a lot of questions concerning Silvetti / Trahan.  I know we don't agree on that. 

Thanks Snoop!! And thanks for pointing out how I was coming across the wrong way. You know I need you and Sunny to help me out!! lol
My intentions were pure though, hope you know that.

No doubt about it kid.

[ldstlou]

Nite all..I am emotionally drain.

[Tylergal]

Well, I believe there is a Marine brig there also.

[snoopy]

Nite all..I am emotionally drain.

sleep tight ldstlou

[BUCKSHOT]

The word for the day, class, is OBFUSCATION

ob⋅fus⋅cate   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA Pronunciation 

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. 
3. to darken.

Sometimes the Monkeys call this misinformation or disinformation.  Characteristics of an obfuscator are:
1. repeating the same irrelevant and obtuse questions,
2. posting long quotes,
3. quoting yourself, ad infinatum,
4. focusing on minor and irrelevant points for pages and pages,
5. name-calling and hyperbole,
6. frequent use of capital letters and exclamation points to indicate excitability and emotion,
7. adopting an "I know this" attitude while never providing proof of knowledge,
8. and finally, when the obfuscator is uncovered, leaving the forum in an emotional outburst.

You know who you are.  The monkeys know who you are.  The monkeys are too smart to become distracted from the truth by the machinations of an obfuscator.

Class over.