Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[Lifesong]

Ok, I've been reviewing the posts and it appears nothing has changed or been cleared up at all.

Kermit says the Jan. 7th footage was only recently turned over to the FBI and the family.

Regarding the same Jan. 7th footage, all ldstlou categorically stated was that she didn't know when it was turned over to the FBI and neither did Kyle, but now the FBI does have it and the family, Jug specifically, is aware of it.

This means Kermit was telling the truth and Kyle wasn't the one who turned over the footage and there's no reason to believe it was "turned over in a timely fashion by another member of the Persistence team" - that was the Dec. 30th footage.

Someone please set me straight if I've got it wrong.

[Tamikosmom]

Lou

No one knows what happened with the evidence after the arubans took off with it, but if there was foul play,  the family does not think Kyle was involved, that is for sure.

I never implied that Kyle was involved in any "foul play".

Lou, please answers my questions ... yes or no ... one question at a time ... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++

Lou

You claim that Beth and Dave have no complaint with the search effort of the Persistence.  If they are aware of what Kyle has revealed in his own words ... I find that hard to believe.  I am devasted ... I want answers and ... Natalee is not my daughter.

Janet

+++++++ 

1.  Is Natalee's parents aware that Kyle claims the chain of custody of the contents of the trap did not involve the crew of the Persistence.

ocean exploration (Kyle)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


2. Is Natalee's parents aware that Kyle claims that he has suspicions that the crew the Persistence was kept away from the location of the trap while the contends were collected and destoryed.

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


3.  Is the family aware that Kyle claims that he suspects that John Silvetti had a conflict of interest that implied he had a self-serving motivation not to challenge the chain of custody in regards to the contents of the cage/trap.

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


4.  Is the family aware that Kyle claims that the ROV images that were save from ALE  destruction (enemy) were not turned over to the FBI by Kyle IMMEDIATELY upon arriving on American soil.

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


5.  Is the family aware that Kyle claims that John Silvetti considered Tim Miller a liability ... Tim Miller is the one who claimed on Dateline ... claimed on Nancy Grace ... claimed on Greta ... that he was sure that he observed a skull in the ROV image taken Christmas Eve.

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


6.  Is the family aware that Kyle believes ... based on his observations ... that Natalee's remains could have been in that cage?

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #275 on: December 05, 2008, 07:05:44 PM »

Kyle said: "Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line.

Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568246;topicseen#msg568246

[Tamikosmom]

LOOOOOU .... COOOOME BAAACK!

Janet

[crazybabyborg]

Hey Snoopy!

If you're gonna use that as an avatar, I've resized it so you can keep the animation. Here:


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Christmas/csnoopy2horse.gif

 

[Pita]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

[Tamikosmom]

Ok, I've been reviewing the posts and it appears nothing has changed or been cleared up at all.

Kermit says the Jan. 7th footage was only recently turned over to the FBI and the family.

Regarding the same Jan. 7th footage, all ldstlou categorically stated was that she didn't know when it was turned over to the FBI and neither did Kyle, but now the FBI does have it and the family, Jug specifically, is aware of it.

This means Kermit was telling the truth and Kyle wasn't the one who turned over the footage and there's no reason to believe it was "turned over in a timely fashion by another member of the Persistence team" - that was the Dec. 30th footage.

Someone please set me straight if I've got it wrong.

Kyle and Kermits own words ...

Janet
____

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

ROV Images:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

[snoopy]

Thank you CBB.  I'll work on it tomm.

[Pita]

I think I am done. Hope that helped you all. Hope too you understand why now I was so upset. It wasn't that the information ended up here, this was all new to me also. I just felt if it was being brought here to discuss, it was only fair to understand where it came from.

Thank you for taking the time to explain it so well.

[texasmom]

Well that opens up a whole new realm of possibilities!  Now we can only hope and pray that sometime between the 30th of December and the 7th of January that samples were taken by the FBI to be tested; and compared to what they received from the Aruban authorities.  All logic tells me that this was done; if it wasn't....I don't know what to think because giving up just isn't an option!

I am sorry, you misunderstood me, it was the video of the dive that the FBI stated they were investigating. Because the FBI was investigating it as POSSIBLE evidence, Dateline was not allow to air the footage.

I don't think I misunderstood that the FBI was on board the Persistence on the 30th of December?  That is where my realm of possibilities came from.

[hotping]

Well that opens up a whole new realm of possibilities!  Now we can only hope and pray that sometime between the 30th of December and the 7th of January that samples were taken by the FBI to be tested; and compared to what they received from the Aruban authorities.  All logic tells me that this was done; if it wasn't....I don't know what to think because giving up just isn't an option!

I am sorry, you misunderstood me, it was the video of the dive that the FBI stated they were investigating. Because the FBI was investigating it as POSSIBLE evidence, Dateline was not allow to air the footage.

I don't think I misunderstood that the FBI was on board the Persistence on the 30th of December?  That is where my realm of possibilities came from.

That's the way I see it TM! 

[billb's daughter]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

I also believe CAPS is one of the good guys looking for Justice for Natalee.
I don't understand why some think it can only be CAPS way or Kermits way. I think that both versions could be complementary, in that Kermits version describes the disposal, and CAPS version describes the crime.

[Lifesong]

Ok, I've been reviewing the posts and it appears nothing has changed or been cleared up at all.

Kermit says the Jan. 7th footage was only recently turned over to the FBI and the family.

Regarding the same Jan. 7th footage, all ldstlou categorically stated was that she didn't know when it was turned over to the FBI and neither did Kyle, but now the FBI does have it and the family, Jug specifically, is aware of it.

This means Kermit was telling the truth and Kyle wasn't the one who turned over the footage and there's no reason to believe it was "turned over in a timely fashion by another member of the Persistence team" - that was the Dec. 30th footage.

Someone please set me straight if I've got it wrong.

Kyle and Kermits own words ...

Janet
____

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

ROV Images:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

Janet,

Here's the quote from ldstlou: 

ldstlou
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #636 on: Today at 09:50:45 PM »

Ldstlou:  "I know they received them I honestly don't know when and I don't think Kyle has any idea when exactly they received them, it was out of his hands. I know that I showed the photos to Jug and he said none of the information we have discussing was new to them or had been withheld from them."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg571206#msg571206

(This was in response to Snoopy’s question re: the Jan. 7th footage)

Wonder what she meant by "it was out of his hands".  Not sure I'm buying that if he was showing it around and trying to make deals with networks for it.

[Lifesong]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

I also believe CAPS is one of the good guys looking for Justice for Natalee.
I don't understand why some think it can only be CAPS way or Kermits way. I think that both versions could be complementary, in that Kermits version describes the disposal, and CAPS version describes the crime.

Robots, I mean billb,

My impression is that perhaps some of the folks from the secret forum group may be using the Caps argument as a strawman to sidetrack us from the Kyle discussion. 

Funny how it keeps getting thrown up out of nowhere in the middle of all this.

Again, my impression only.   

[Pita]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

I also believe CAPS is one of the good guys looking for Justice for Natalee.
I don't understand why some think it can only be CAPS way or Kermits way. I think that both versions could be complementary, in that Kermits version describes the disposal, and CAPS version describes the crime.

Robots, I mean billb,

My impression is that perhaps some of the folks from the secret forum group may be using the Caps argument as a strawman to sidetrack us from the Kyle discussion. 

Funny how it keeps getting thrown up out of nowhere in the middle of all this.

Again, my impression only.   

Lifesong, just to clarify....if you think I am one of the members of the secret forum, I am not.   

Thank you and have a good night!

[Pita]

Goodnight all!

[texasmom]

Goodnight Pita!   

[Kat_Gram]

I am the one who dragged Caps into this tonight. I am not from a secret forum or anything like that. I was away and I mean away gone even from reading even at work for a few months .
I am happy with Lalas explanation and also with Hotshots. They have kept up, have more knowledge than I do on the tpoic and I am not going to question what either one of them has said. Three years and sometimes you just have to trust people that you have always found trustworthy and honest. 

[billb's daughter]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

I also believe CAPS is one of the good guys looking for Justice for Natalee.
I don't understand why some think it can only be CAPS way or Kermits way. I think that both versions could be complementary, in that Kermits version describes the disposal, and CAPS version describes the crime.

Robots, I mean billb,

My impression is that perhaps some of the folks from the secret forum group may be using the Caps argument as a strawman to sidetrack us from the Kyle discussion. 

Funny how it keeps getting thrown up out of nowhere in the middle of all this.

Again, my impression only.   

Lifesong,
I see what you mean, and it  seems some of those same folks are also trying to deflect Kermits posts as somehow being unfair because they somehow break a code of silence...WTH.
Like Frank, Rob, wreck, blah, Janet, San, Blonde, Klaas and so many others, mho this forum is not being
about withholding info and asking others to believe you because you know more than the rest....this forum is about finding justice for Natalee. Wherever that may lead, that is the point and if some are offended...Oh well.
Bring Natalee home. Anything after that is extra....but I'd love to see all the conspirators face the music, in this life or the next....

[billb's daughter]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

I also believe CAPS is one of the good guys looking for Justice for Natalee.
I don't understand why some think it can only be CAPS way or Kermits way. I think that both versions could be complementary, in that Kermits version describes the disposal, and CAPS version describes the crime.

Robots, I mean billb,

My impression is that perhaps some of the folks from the secret forum group may be using the Caps argument as a strawman to sidetrack us from the Kyle discussion. 

Funny how it keeps getting thrown up out of nowhere in the middle of all this.

Again, my impression only.   

Lifesong,
I see what you mean, and it  seems some of those same folks are also trying to deflect Kermits posts as somehow being unfair because they somehow break a code of silence...WTH.
Like Frank, Rob, wreck, blah, Janet, San, Blonde, Klaas and so many others, mho this forum is not being
about withholding info and asking others to believe you because you know more than the rest....this forum is about finding justice for Natalee. Wherever that may lead, that is the point and if some are offended...Oh well.
Bring Natalee home. Anything after that is extra....but I'd love to see all the conspirators face the music, in this life or the next....

I HATE THEM ALL!

[Tamikosmom]

I can understand why some would question who Caps is, especially those who haven't been here all the time he has.  Some have not had as much communication with him as others.  I still believe he is one of the good guys.  I believe he has tried to help find the answers and has spent a lot of time researching any and all possibilities.  I have at times been concerned that others may have taken advantage of him to further their own agendas. 

But Caps is quite capable of taking care of himself, of that I have no doubt.

I believe he is one of the good guys, too.

I also believe CAPS is one of the good guys looking for Justice for Natalee.
I don't understand why some think it can only be CAPS way or Kermits way. I think that both versions could be complementary, in that Kermits version describes the disposal, and CAPS version describes the crime.

Robots, I mean billb,

My impression is that perhaps some of the folks from the secret forum group may be using the Caps argument as a strawman to sidetrack us from the Kyle discussion. 

Funny how it keeps getting thrown up out of nowhere in the middle of all this.

Again, my impression only.   

Lifesong ... I do not have clue regarding the "secret forum".  Nobody invited me.

 

However ... this wannabe detective have not quite figured out the CAPS/PERSISTANCE connection but ... I definitely believe there is.

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOO GEEPERS!!!

Janet