Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[blah]

Like I said yesterday there are a lot of people here that say trust me.  People have questions and concerns and have the right to question others.  There are plenty of people who have done a lot for Natalee's family.  You are putting CAPS on a pedestal because YOU believe in him.  We all have our own thoughts and feelings about this and because someone questions him you come out and feel it is not allowed.

Kermit was attacked yesterday and she came on and went toe to toe with the individuals questioning her actions.  I expect the same from CAPS.

I don't care who CAPS is because it is none of my business.  To me he is just another poster on SM.

Lala's whom might the others be that left here and you are defending.  Was it because they were being attacked?

We can question one poster but not another.

The only thing I disagree with is when a poster comes on here bashing Natalee's family.  We are all on the same side and it will not be tolerated.

Good post 

[blah]

What's the explanation for the sudden departure of the ship AFTER requesting funds to continue a search?  Why-when so many heeded that call for funds by sending in the donations-did they just up and leave without giving it a chance to collect the needed funds?  What were the funds for IF they thought they had been "had" by the Aruban OE back in Jan.07?

I never asked these questions so I really can't answer...it would just be a guess and I don't want to do that.

Is it possible that you could find out?

I'm going by memory here and my memory is pretty lousy but I think I remember something about a hurricane or tropical storm coming to the area and they were trying to avoid it.  Or was that on the way down there?????

Hi blah...I think it was on the way down there. Recall a recent post about the Persistence leaving with the weather forecast being so bad.

thanks Mum, like I said - my memory isnt that great 

[Red]

Rudy Croes Obstructed Justice: Minister Croes of Justice Finally Admits Natalee Holloway Case Messed Up by Nepotism, Blames van der Straten

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/08/rudy-croes-obstructed-justice-minister-croes-of-justice-finally-admits-natalee-holloway-case-messed-up-by-nepotism-blames-van-der-straten/

Define irony? The Justice Minister of Aruba Rudy Croes obstructing justice in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Croes claims that Jan van der Straten intentionally messed up the case due to nepotism, yet Rudy Croes never came forward with this information until now. Beth and Dave Holloway would have been interested in Croes’ latest comment in June 2005.

[Tamikosmom]

The following is the fifth updated compilation of quotes derived from communication between Kermit and Kyle.
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: march 18, 2008: If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »

Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »

Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »

May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #275 on: December 05, 2008, 07:05:44 PM »

Kyle said: "Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.
- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line.

Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568246;topicseen#msg568246


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #524 on: December 05, 2008, 11:59:23 PM

kyle stated: "Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568677;topicseen#msg568677


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #177 on: Today at 05:36:40 PM »

B. Kyle stated: " The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570229#msg570229


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #149 on: Today at 05:21:08 PM »

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570184#msg570184


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: Today at 05:20:41 PM »

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570183#msg570183


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: Today at 05:20:41 PM »

From Kyle: I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570182#msg570182


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #700 on: Today at 03:51:53 AM »

Klye stated: "I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them.[/u]

Klye stated: "I havn't spoken to Beth and don't plan to personally."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.700

[Tamikosmom]

Rudy Croes Obstructed Justice: Minister Croes of Justice Finally Admits Natalee Holloway Case Messed Up by Nepotism, Blames van der Straten

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/08/rudy-croes-obstructed-justice-minister-croes-of-justice-finally-admits-natalee-holloway-case-messed-up-by-nepotism-blames-van-der-straten/

Define irony? The Justice Minister of Aruba Rudy Croes obstructing justice in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Croes claims that Jan van der Straten intentionally messed up the case due to nepotism, yet Rudy Croes never came forward with this information until now. Beth and Dave Holloway would have been interested in Croes’ latest comment in June 2005.

Red ... my sense of logic is that Aruba's agenda is to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a close.  Jan vander Straaten will be Aruba's sacrificial lamb whose obstruction in the first ten days implies crucial evidence was destroyed and ... a just investigation is now impossible.  In other words ... "Case Closed!"

If implication does not start and end for Jan van der Straaten ... the domino effect will be so far reaching ... Chevez can just claim Aruba as another one of his conquests as he strives to take over the Carribean.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Red ... I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... Straaten has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation in the first ten days and ... allowing all crucial evidence required to bring the suspects to justice to be destroyed.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where  involved in the events that led up to the happenings  of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all those within the Dutch/Aruba administration who are involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

[MumInOhio]

Ronnie...Welcome!

Do you recall the friend's name that was with Joran when you first met him?

Thank You in Advance!

[Lifesong]

I don't belong to any private forums either.   

... but ... but ... I bet you were invited.  I wasn't.

 

Janet

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Doesn't really sound to me like they're the brightest bunch around.  (Am I allowed to say that? If not, please delete it - I don't want to get kicked out - I know nobody would invite to join anywhere else!) 

Are you talking about the Freebirds? 

Pita ... I was under the impression that Lou was speaking about ... the forum that Kyle was invited to ... is a private forum that was just formed recently.  Then again I could be wrong.  Story of my life.

Janet

That was my impression as well, Janet. 

My post was meant as a lighthearted reference back to all the contradictory statements given in defense of Kyle and attacking Kermit. 

That there were contradictory statements is my opinion.  I don't much care if anyone agrees with me or not. 

I have no idea what anyone's intentions are unless I know them personally, and even then people have surprised me.  I do believe that most everyone that posts here truly wants justice for Natalee. 

I also believe that human beings can be vulnerable to a certain personality/character quirk similar to 'delusions of grandeur' that may make them feel they are more important than others or have intelligence and abilities that others couldn't possibly grasp.

I apologize if my post hurt anyone's feelings.  As I'm not part of any 'we know more than you do' crowd, anyone I've offended should probably just assume I'm speaking from pure ignorance and am not very bright myself.  I can live with that.

Also, I'm familiar with the Freebirds work.  I didn't know they claimed it as original, I always thought it was obvious they were compiling information for distribution.  As far as I know they are caring people who want justice for Natalee.  If that is the 'private forum' group that Kyle was invited to and that we've been discussing, then I find that disappointing. 

JMO

[Frank]

Janet,

I don't know why but the words Aruba and "well thought out" just don't seem to go together. How can someone be accused of destroying evidence without revealing what that evidence is?

Aruba will have to reveal how they know Natalee died. If you were van der straaten why in this legal environment (Aruba) would you need to be a scapegoat?

I mean hasn't he done enough for Paulus already?

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

I don't know why but the words Aruba and "well thought out" just don't seem to go together.
 How can someone be accused of destroying evidence without revealing what that evidence is?

Aruba will have to reveal how they know Natalee died. If you were van der straaten why in this legal environment (Aruba) would you need to be a scapegoat?

I mean hasn't he done enough for Paulus already?

 

I suspect that it will be determined that Jan van der Straaten "incompetence" in the first ten days had the "potential" of allowing all evidence that could have implicated Joran and Paulus  to be destroyed.  In other words the investigation was irreparably compromised.

1.  vehicles not confiscated
2.  residence not search
3.  Joran and Kalpoes not aprehended

From a legal perspective Jan van der Straaten pleads "not guilty" to a conflict of interest in regards to his friendship with Paulus van der Sloot but ... will concedes that he did botched the investigation within the first ten day ... made the wrong decisions.  The judge will rule in his favor and ... he will walk.

Aruba will attempt to pacify Natalee's familly by apologizing for the incompentence of one of their own who prevented justice from prevailing and ... will assure the family that Jan van der Straaten will never again work in law enforcement again.

Jan van der Straaten with a fatten bank account fades from the Aruban scene.

Case Closed!

Frank think about it.  Wrong decisions are made every day by LE in the United States and Canada that compromise investigations.  Heads may roll but ... there are no legal consequences.

IMO

Janet


+++++


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005

TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/

[pinkbanana]

Just stopped in to say, Hi 


Have a BLESSED day!


pb

STILL STANDING WITH THE GIRL!

[Frank]

Janet,

Hasn't that already happened?

I mean there isn't a bus to throw van der straaten under is there?

And what to do about others who come forward? Both Rudy Croes and Nelson Oduber have said mistakes were made.

I want to know how he gets around arresting 2 innocent security guards? How does Jan answer that and what evidence he "saw" to pull them in for murder?

I'd be happy with him just answering that question, and how did Janssen bring the charges against the guards.

Embarrassment is the only thing these self-conscious savages seem to respond to.

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkeys.

This morning I was wide awake 5:00 AM.  My thought process determined that I had only  two choices ... start up the vacuum or ... start up the computer.  My hubby is still sawing logs so ...

 

Janet
7:00 AM PT

[WhiskeyGirl]

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

Kermit....forgive me, I'm a little dense.
I think the question is: who are the experts that believe the remains are those of Natalee?
It's is good to hear Beth, Dave and JQK know of the info (pics).
Thanks.....

Kermit is saying that the FBI is the experts that believe Natalee was in the cage.

Did Kermit actually write anywhere "that the FBI is the experts that believe Natalee was in the cage." or something that concise?

How would anyone, including Kermit, know that the FBI received any remains or other materials "evidence"? 

How would anyone know if they were tested and the FBI concluded/confirmed it was Natalee?  Did the FBI publish, distribute, or in any other way promote the results?  Can anyone get a copy?

Maybe the FBI, Beth, Dave, Jug, or others shared the results with Kermit?  Aruba?  Julia Renfro?  RG?  Joran's many lawyers and his family?

Maybe they shared the news that none of Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If not Natalee, who or what was in there?

Why haven't Natalee's Freebirds weighed in on the cage, the evidence, and cover-up as discussed here in the cage?  They usually keep on top of these things.

 

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

Hasn't that already happened?

I mean there isn't a bus to throw van der straaten under is there?

And what to do about others who come forward? Both Rudy Croes and Nelson Oduber have said mistakes were made.

I want to know how he gets around arresting 2 innocent security guards? How does Jan answer that and what evidence he "saw" to pull them in for murder?

I'd be happy with him just answering that question, and how did Janssen bring the charges against the guards.

Embarrassment is the only thing these self-conscious savages seem to respond to.

It will be determined that Jan van der Straaten's "incompetent" investigation was going in the wrong direction and ... Janssen could only act on the information provided to her.  She was the prosecutor ... not the investigator.

I tell ya ... accountability for the "botched" .... not "corrupt" ... investigation will start and end with Jan van der Straaten.  Straaten has been chosen to be the sacrificial lamb and ... a negociated settlement has been struck.

Think about it.  Ruby Croes is not about to risk the domino effect.  It would be sooo far reaching and ... he may be one of the dominos.

 

IMO

Janet

[WhiskeyGirl]

Caribbean braces for worst tourism since 9/11

The global economic crisis is bringing storm clouds to the islands known for sun and fun. Even the luxe Atlantis resort in the Bahamas has laid off workers.

BY JOSEPH A. MANN JR. AND JACQUELINE CHARLES
ma9jose@aol.com

Caribbean business leaders and government officials are bracing for what many expect to be the biggest downturn in tourism since the 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States.

Meeting last week at the 32nd annual Miami Conference on the Caribbean and Central America, participants discussed a range of strategies to prop up regional tourism, including directing new marketing campaigns away from the United States toward countries such as Brazil, Mexico, China and India; focusing on people of color -- a growing segment of the U.S. market; and simplifying visa requirements and expediting entry and exit at airports.

The US is broke.  Follow the money.

WINNERS, LOSERS

According to his estimates, the Dominican Republic will win while places such as the Bahamas, Cancun, Turks and Caicos and, to a lesser extent, Jamaica will lose visitors. Aruba and the U.S. Virgin Islands also risk losing significant numbers of U.S. tourists to Cuba.

Cuba needs about 10,000 more hotel rooms, Romeu said. It currently has about 50,000 rooms.

http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/802942.html

[WhiskeyGirl]

Janet,

Hasn't that already happened?

I mean there isn't a bus to throw van der straaten under is there?

And what to do about others who come forward? Both Rudy Croes and Nelson Oduber have said mistakes were made.

I want to know how he gets around arresting 2 innocent security guards? How does Jan answer that and what evidence he "saw" to pull them in for murder?

I'd be happy with him just answering that question, and how did Janssen bring the charges against the guards.

Embarrassment is the only thing these self-conscious savages seem to respond to.

It will be determined that Jan van der Straaten's "incompetent" investigation was going in the wrong direction and ... Janssen could only act on the information provided to her.  She was the prosecutor ... not the investigator.

I tell ya ... accountability for the "botched" .... not "corrupt" ... investigation will start and end with Jan van der Straaten.  Straaten has been chosen to be the sacrificial lamb and ... a negociated settlement has been struck.

Think about it.  Ruby Croes is not about to risk the domino effect.  It would be sooo far reaching and ... he may be one of the dominos.

 

IMO

Janet

I remember a long time ago, early in the case, on other forums, discussing the roles and responsibilities of Dutch/Aruban judges/prosecutors/law enforcement as compared to their American counterparts judges/juries/prosecutors/law enforcement.

I concluded that the Dutch/Aruban judge rubber stamped the work of the investigators and prosecutors.  The Dutch/Aruban system would never charge an innocent person or take them before the judge for sentencing.  The judge is the check/balance to the work already done by the prosecutors/investigators.  The judge rubber stamps the conclusions/proof of the investigators.  The prosecutors place charges. 

The role of the Dutch/Aruban prosecutor/investigator was more like the American trial, either with judge/jury.  In this stage, the evidence is mulled over, considered, weighed, and guilt or non-guilt determined (or something like that).  If non-guilt, or questionable guilt, no charges.  If charged, must be 100% guilty, no shadows, no doubts.

I also remember finding some things on the internet describing the role of Dutch judges.  It seemed to me at the time that the judge had an active part in the investigation.  Judges determine the direction the investigators and law enforcement take.  Judges make the decisions - Can we investigate this person?  Can we pull phone records?  Can we take any a step outside the box?

Remember the search warrents Dompig wanted for the VDS compound?  IIRC, one judge with the evidence before him determined that yes the whole place may be searched.  The judge on site, determined that no the whole place may not be searched.

Review many years later determined that the whole place should have been searched.  Why not on day one or two after she was missing?

Who directed the arrest of the two security guards?  The search of their home?  On what evidence?

I think many of the problems roll up to the judiciary - one person or another.  I think the judiciary includes the ministers of tourism, justice, and other officials on the office. 

I recall Jan VDS retiring and the confused discussions.  Perhaps he was not willing 100% to go along with tourism?

just my humble opinions.

[BUCKSHOT]

Thought:
There was a disagreement a few days ago about the fact that the family had seen the photographs and dismissed them as not being NH. Simple logic came to me, regarding clarification...

If the family has not seen these "additional secret" photographs, which SM posters feel are remains (possibly NH)...Someone, with connections to the family, should make sure that they have the chance to view them. Then, let us ask the family if, after viewing the "additional secret" photographs, they feel that they could be relevant to the recovery of NH, and or possibly her remains.

We could then determine if the family is choosing not acknowledge the relevance of the photos(for unknown specified reasons), whether they have even seen the aforementioned photos, or some posters (who claim to be friends of the family) are trying to steer us away.

Question:
An obvious conclusion can be drawn:
Kermit not on boat. Kermit knows of remains. Conclusion=Someone else knows. Who??

[WhiskeyGirl]

If I were to sum it up, the Aruban justice system is a top-down model.  Things roll down from judges--investigations, evidence, etc.  Who do judges report to?  

The American system is a bottom-up model.  Complaints, investigators, evidence, prosecutors, charges, hearings/trials, etc.  Who do all of these people report to?

Can I get a transcript of these hearings?  Can I go and watch?  Open court?  Public access to files?

KELLY: I think incompetent would almost be kind. There are sinister things going on. They have just, you know, avoided too much, and they make every effort to disprove anything that inculpatory(ph) in this whole matter here.

And people talk about the timing of the tape, that it came out in November. But if you released the day after you had it, what would they have done differently that they are not doing now? It's total inaction.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can I tell you? We have been the only people investigating this. To turn that tape over when we got it to the Aruban police, we would be insane. These people have done nothing to investigate it.

It would be absolutely insane to turn it over to people that I think have been incompetent at best at investigation. That is the first thing.

The second thing is that if people only knew the behind-the-scenes efforts we have been doing to corroborate it. People can have all sorts of imagination that they want, but I can tell you and anyone will listen, is that we have this information. We are willing to turn it over to the Aruban prosecutor.

He does not want to see it. They do not want to solve this or make any attempt to either prove this or disproved this.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460908,00.html

jmho

[Blonde]

Thought:
There was a disagreement a few days ago about the fact that the family had seen the photographs and dismissed them as not being NH. Simple logic came to me, regarding clarification...

If the family has not seen these "additional secret" photographs, which SM posters feel are remains (possibly NH)...Someone, with connections to the family, should make sure that they have the chance to view them. Then, let us ask the family if, after viewing the "additional secret" photographs, they feel that they could be relevant to the recovery of NH, and or possibly her remains.

We could then determine if the family is choosing not acknowledge the relevance of the photos(for unknown specified reasons), whether they have even seen the aforementioned photos, or some posters (who claim to be friends of the family) are trying to steer us away.

Question:
An obvious conclusion can be drawn:
Kermit not on boat. Kermit knows of remains. Conclusion=Someone else knows. Who??

Did Kernit say she was NOT on the boat Just asking

Because I did a screen shot and their was a girl on the ship,or it looks like a girl.