Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[WhiskeyGirl]

The finger is still pointing at Aruba.  The points to the guilty in this case, as well as the innocent citizen.

What if someone took Natalee home?  What if they returned her to her family and provided a little evidence along the way to the FBI?  What if something was left for Aruban justice?

I always felt they should just take Natalee home if they found her.  Others insisted that there needs to be justice too.  I just didn't feel then (and not now) that there would ever be justice for Natalee, even if there were remains, videos, and "If/how I did it" books published.

The finger is still pointing at Aruba and the guilty.  Someone has to know what went down on that island, and they still do. 

Who was in charge of all the evidence?  Who are they related to?  What does the evidence record show? 

Tape recordings of interrogations?  Where are they?  Bones?  Belt?  Police cars?

What happened to all that stuff, and who was in charge of it over the years?

Just my humble opinions.

[Magnolia]

Hotshot  excellent post

Frank I promise I'll send my letters just as soon as I get back home. 
I'm afraid I am about to be faced with a very sad situation.  We have this old wonderful loving sweet dog name Snoopy.  Snoopy the past several months has slowing started losing his faculties.  And now he is very sick.  Hy hubby who loves this precious old dog so much rushed Snoopy to the vet this morning and the vet said there is no more he can do for Snoopy.  So hubby is desperate to take him to a specialist this afternoon in St. Louis.  I know what's coming, but I don't have the heart to tell hubby.  So a little prayer would be much appreciated.  I know he's just a dog, but we love him so much.  He's a part of our family.

Sorry for the O/T

Hoping for the best for your "family member", Snoopy.

[WhiskeyGirl]

texasmom, magnolia, keepthefaith, tamoksmom, san,
Just a few lines to let you know I have know Ill feelings towards you.
I don't know why you are on the attack for me, but i am sure you have your reasons, and thats fine.
Lets start with I feel it was remains in the trap, and I too feel it was taken right out from under the boat.  Who ever was in charge it was definitely not kyle.  He had one job, and one job only, that was to find targets, and watch the screen.  I was not asked to come and defend him, actually I asked him If I could.  He "WILL NOT" come back here as for he sees what some of you are doing to older monkeys, he doesn't need that in his life.  And he is smart in not doing so.  There is no reason to dissect some of what you are all talking about it is what it is and its as simple as that.  Who was in charge of the boat?  I don't know, I would say the owner.  Who should have been in charge?  Tim Miller!  Would I have taken samples and brought them home?  YES!  Did they?  I don't think they did but I do think some wanted to, and maybe that is why Tim was named a liability IMO.  You have to remember they were in the Aruban waters, and had they done anything against the Arubans, they'd be sitting in jail just like Matthews.  Do we really want to see that happen?  Theres lots to think about, it's not just cut and dry here.  Do I feel the trip over there with them was a loss?  Yes  Why?  Aruba socked us again!  I am just hoping and praying that something there is left in that black hole to use as evidence somewhere down the line.  Do I think there will ever be a conviction? Only if Interpol, and such gets involved, and the BIGWIGS get taken down. 

As for Meetings on the boat, of course Richardson, and Mos were going to be there.  They are supposed to be the highest people in the ALE, why wouldn't they be there?  not that we like them, but it is their waters, their Island, and they have every right to be there.  Of course it was all a cover-up, WE have known this from close to day one, once they said a son of a judge we knew.  It shouldn't come to be a surprise just because it is all coming out in the open.  Yes we were right all along, Yeah for us. 

We did not come on here to derail anything with CAPS.  CAPS is part of an undercover part in Aruba who is really doing his job.  If you have read the Aruban papers, and listened to tes getting polys on some people from Aruba, you would know that he is for real and he is possibly the one who is taking all these big people down.  And you ask why can't we say who he is?  Do you wish for him to become another "pitbull"?  There have been deaths due to the Holloway case we all know this, and he has also proved it and even Rudy Croes has said it.  CAPS was actually working before the Persistence came about, he just wasn't HERE.  You actually think I like hiding who he is?  I wish I could tell the whole world, but right now we can't.  Klaas, and a few others know he is real.  When things are done, and heads have rolled, he will tell you himself.  Until then, it's not about who or what is known, its about someone actually doing the job.  Natalees job.

As far as Private Forums go, I do not belong to one either.....And as for feeling alone, I do.  I feel it here, and in the other forums that I had been in the past.  I still go to my fullest extent to get things investigated, because it is not about the forum, it is about Nat, and her parents.  I feel blessed to have met, and work with a total of 3 people here who know how to keep things to themselves.  Kermit, you may mean well, but the way things came about were IMO only in favor of you.  You have people believing "not the full story", and thats not a good thing.  It's kind of like the Bible, you can read a line and take it several different ways, and I think you are doing that here.  Silvetti does not support that there was a body in that trap.  Do i agree?  NO.  But you know what, it is done.  We can't go back.  It doesn't mean there was a cover-up with the Persistence, it means poor judgement was done.  Silvetti went over there NOT knowing full details of this case.  Had it been one of us in his place, you bet things would have been done differently.  We have to move on here, it's over.  I am sure Tim is not thrilled with what happened either, he waited 2+ years to get there and do the search.  For him to be called a liability in my book is so wrong.  The trap is still there, and I am sure there is other parts of what was in it spread about.  Instead of talking about it, why doesn't someone go there, and dig for themselves?  We all can talk a good talk, but how about walking the walk?  A few of us have.  Rob, Red, BB, have gone and a few more come to mind.  Thats a small amount compared to what is in this group.  Sure, we can all send money to the cause, but that wont get Tim there again.  He's been there a gazillion times, they need new faces there that the ALE is not going to recognise. 

BTW with Kyle stating this comment       Kermit said: Kyle said Caps is (one step Away) from dirty hands.....that meant he was one step away from zeroing in on Dirty hands.  It's not the same person we see as Dirty Hands, but it is one of them.  once again, taken out of context.  P.S. Kermit was NOT on the boat.

It may just be me, but I think that a lot of hands got dirty, and a lot of them got slipped a little moola, and some got lots of green with a serving of envy.

Contrast that with Arubans that are losing jobs, going hungry, and skeletons that make the political cartoons of Diario.  Nothing for Christmas under those trees, if they can afford one.

jmho

[Poochy]

Ronnie...Welcome!

Do you recall the friend's name that was with Joran when you first met him?

Thank You in Advance!

The friend's name was Dary (Not Daury, when the video with Patrick was released and Joran mentioned the name Daury, I thought about it.. but the two names are pronouced totally different).. I believe they had told us Dary was 15, he looked younger than Joran. We only met Dary that first initial day, he didn't come around anymore after that. Didn't get a last name, I wish I had but we didn't even know Joran's last name until we exchanged email addresses (Jorans last name was part of the email address he used back then)..

=]

Hi Ronnie, thanks for the info. When you have time, please check out the pics on this site to see if you recognize Joran's friend DARY. Do you recall if Dary looked Dutch, or Indian/Surinamese/Colombian - and possibly anything else about him - such as hair color and height? TIA.

Hi Mum - thanks for asking that question! An Aruba White Page search results on DARY results in the following entries (you can get addresses when you google the directory - anybody have an old Aruba white page directory laying around from 2004/2005?)

Calderon-MuDDoz Luz Dary     
Daryanani Harisch   
Daryanani Jagdish B   
Daryanani Satish D
Velasquez Bolanos Quevedo Luz Dary   
Violenus-Daryanani Nadine   

[Keepthefaith]

texasmom, magnolia, keepthefaith, tamoksmom, san,
Just a few lines to let you know I have know Ill feelings towards you.
I don't know why you are on the attack for me, but i am sure you have your reasons, and thats fine.
Lets start with I feel it was remains in the trap, and I too feel it was taken right out from under the boat.  Who ever was in charge it was definitely not kyle.  He had one job, and one job only, that was to find targets, and watch the screen.  I was not asked to come and defend him, actually I asked him If I could.  He "WILL NOT" come back here as for he sees what some of you are doing to older monkeys, he doesn't need that in his life.  And he is smart in not doing so.   There is no reason to dissect some of what you are all talking about it is what it is and its as simple as that.  Who was in charge of the boat?  I don't know, I would say the owner.  Who should have been in charge?  Tim Miller!  Would I have taken samples and brought them home?  YES!  Did they?  I don't think they did but I do think some wanted to, and maybe that is why Tim was named a liability IMO.  You have to remember they were in the Aruban waters, and had they done anything against the Arubans, they'd be sitting in jail just like Matthews.  Do we really want to see that happen?  Theres lots to think about, it's not just cut and dry here.  Do I feel the trip over there with them was a loss?  Yes  Why?  Aruba socked us again!  I am just hoping and praying that something there is left in that black hole to use as evidence somewhere down the line.  Do I think there will ever be a conviction? Only if Interpol, and such gets involved, and the BIGWIGS get taken down. 

As for Meetings on the boat, of course Richardson, and Mos were going to be there.  They are supposed to be the highest people in the ALE, why wouldn't they be there?  not that we like them, but it is their waters, their Island, and they have every right to be there.  Of course it was all a cover-up, WE have known this from close to day one, once they said a son of a judge we knew.  It shouldn't come to be a surprise just because it is all coming out in the open.  Yes we were right all along, Yeah for us. 

We did not come on here to derail anything with CAPS.  CAPS is part of an undercover part in Aruba who is really doing his job.  If you have read the Aruban papers, and listened to tes getting polys on some people from Aruba, you would know that he is for real and he is possibly the one who is taking all these big people down.  And you ask why can't we say who he is?  Do you wish for him to become another "pitbull"?  There have been deaths due to the Holloway case we all know this, and he has also proved it and even Rudy Croes has said it.  CAPS was actually working before the Persistence came about, he just wasn't HERE.  You actually think I like hiding who he is?  I wish I could tell the whole world, but right now we can't.  Klaas, and a few others know he is real.  When things are done, and heads have rolled, he will tell you himself.  Until then, it's not about who or what is known, its about someone actually doing the job.  Natalees job.

As far as Private Forums go, I do not belong to one either.....And as for feeling alone, I do.  I feel it here, and in the other forums that I had been in the past.  I still go to my fullest extent to get things investigated, because it is not about the forum, it is about Nat, and her parents.  I feel blessed to have met, and work with a total of 3 people here who know how to keep things to themselves.  Kermit, you may mean well, but the way things came about were IMO only in favor of you.  You have people believing "not the full story", and thats not a good thing.  It's kind of like the Bible, you can read a line and take it several different ways, and I think you are doing that here.  Silvetti does not support that there was a body in that trap.  Do i agree?  NO.  But you know what, it is done.  We can't go back.  It doesn't mean there was a cover-up with the Persistence, it means poor judgement was done.  Silvetti went over there NOT knowing full details of this case.  Had it been one of us in his place, you bet things would have been done differently.  We have to move on here, it's over.  I am sure Tim is not thrilled with what happened either, he waited 2+ years to get there and do the search.  For him to be called a liability in my book is so wrong.  The trap is still there, and I am sure there is other parts of what was in it spread about.  Instead of talking about it, why doesn't someone go there, and dig for themselves?  We all can talk a good talk, but how about walking the walk?  A few of us have.  Rob, Red, BB, have gone and a few more come to mind.  Thats a small amount compared to what is in this group.  Sure, we can all send money to the cause, but that wont get Tim there again.  He's been there a gazillion times, they need new faces there that the ALE is not going to recognise. 

BTW with Kyle stating this comment       Kermit said: Kyle said Caps is (one step Away) from dirty hands.....that meant he was one step away from zeroing in on Dirty hands.  It's not the same person we see as Dirty Hands, but it is one of them.  once again, taken out of context.  P.S. Kermit was NOT on the boat.

1.I'm sorry if you feel that way.No way am i intending to attack!
2.What are some of us doing to Older Monkeys?
3.From who's Stand point?
4."There's no reason to dissect some of what we are talking about?"Why and who says?
5.Is it not true that Kyle Heard Silvetti say "Tim was a liability".Why would Tim be a liability??

Again.Kyle could clear this up very quickly but chooses not to do so!Why??I think he could explain himself??JMOO.

Again.With the apparent wealth of knowledge in education,as well as business,and to allow what occured out there on the Persistence for me is Horrific.I have tried to undertsand what kind of incompetence it would take to have Natalee potentially under your boat and let ALE come in and drive away with the contents of the cage.Again.This is just my opinion.I'm still trusting in the fact that the other 2 witnesses will come forward Hotshot!

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

I'm afraid I am about to be faced with a very sad situation.  We have this old wonderful loving sweet dog name Snoopy.  Snoopy the past several months has slowing started losing his faculties.  And now he is very sick.  Hy hubby who loves this precious old dog so much rushed Snoopy to the vet this morning and the vet said there is no more he can do for Snoopy.  So hubby is desperate to take him to a specialist this afternoon in St. Louis.  I know what's coming, but I don't have the heart to tell hubby.  So a little prayer would be much appreciated.  I know he's just a dog, but we love him so much.  He's a part of our family.

Sorry for the O/T

In time our pet does become like a member of the family.  This is why your hubby is compelled to do whatever it takes to prolong the life of your precious Snoopy.  Even if you are correct in suspect "what is coming" ... there will be no regrets.

Hugs and prayers Snoopy.

Janet

[Frank]

Isn't it just a simple as:

How does anyone know she is dead?

Is there even evidence of a crime at all?

the lack of evidence is the evidence.

I've written to 5 officials in Holland this morning and plan on doing it every day, I want to know how they know she's dead?

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763

Think is is very important for Kyle(OE) to help us understand these statements!Is that to unreasonable????I don't think so.

[Keepthefaith]

Isn't it just a simple as:

How does anyone know she is dead?

Is there even evidence of a crime at all?

the lack of evidence is the evidence.

I've written to 5 officials in Holland this morning and plan on doing it every day, I want to know how they know she's dead?

I believe with Joran's last statements,true or not,puts Aruba in a check-mate.Exactly as you say Frank.Show us the evidence as to why they think she is DEAD!If not you must investigate and bring all the key players back in for questioning!Right???

[MumInOhio]

Ronnie...Welcome!

Do you recall the friend's name that was with Joran when you first met him?

Thank You in Advance!

The friend's name was Dary (Not Daury, when the video with Patrick was released and Joran mentioned the name Daury, I thought about it.. but the two names are pronouced totally different).. I believe they had told us Dary was 15, he looked younger than Joran. We only met Dary that first initial day, he didn't come around anymore after that. Didn't get a last name, I wish I had but we didn't even know Joran's last name until we exchanged email addresses (Jorans last name was part of the email address he used back then)..

=]

Hi Ronnie, thanks for the info. When you have time, please check out the pics on this site to see if you recognize Joran's friend DARY. Do you recall if Dary looked Dutch, or Indian/Surinamese/Colombian - and possibly anything else about him - such as hair color and height? TIA.

Hi Mum - thanks for asking that question! An Aruba White Page search results on DARY results in the following entries (you can get addresses when you google the directory - anybody have an old Aruba white page directory laying around from 2004/2005?)

Calderon-MuDDoz Luz Dary     
Daryanani Harisch   
Daryanani Jagdish B   
Daryanani Satish D
Velasquez Bolanos Quevedo Luz Dary   
Violenus-Daryanani Nadine   

Thanks Ronnie and Poochy...

Nationality or anything else you can recall would be very helpful Ronnie as Joran maintains he hung around the tourist spots with Jamie and Freddy. Long hair, short hair, etc.

Poochy...was working on a Velasquez connection to Jaime a few months back...Found a post asking about Jaime Velasquez/Velasquez...we all know how Aruba likes to mix up names.

Daryanani...Brothers...Deepak and Satish...I think their father, or another relative was murdered a few months back...maybe Curacao.

[Hotshot]

1.I'm sorry if you feel that way.No way am i intending to attack!The same questions, and quotes over and over again, when you know only the CREW can answer is an attack
2.What are some of us doing to Older Monkeys? Questioning our trust
3.From who's Stand point? Several of us here
4."There's no reason to dissect some of what we are talking about?"Why and who says?  Some stuff is just cut and dry
5.Is it not true that Kyle Heard Silvetti say "Tim was a liability".Why would Tim be a liability??  LOL, you are the one who keeps quoting this.  I suggest you & Kermit read your posts (quotes) prior to requoting

Again.Kyle could clear this up very quickly but chooses not to do so!Why??I think he could explain himself??JMOO.  He wont!  He will not put himself through what some of us are put through.  So stop asking him to, please. The answer is simply no.

Again.With the apparent wealth of knowledge in education,as well as business,and to allow what occured out there on the Persistence for me is Horrific.I have tried to undertsand what kind of incompetence it would take to have Natalee potentially under your boat and let ALE come in and drive away with the contents of the cage.Again.This is just my opinion.I'm still trusting in the fact that the other 2 witnesses will come forward Hotshot!  Oh they are, and if you'd read, more then argue, you'd see its already happening

[Helen Back]

Didn't Rob say that there was some news coming out this week?  Something TJ is working on? 

Hey Rob, drop in when you can and give us some new news, would you?  TIA

Going back to write more emails to the Dutch Parliament.......

Two down....lots to go!

 

[Keepthefaith]

1.I'm sorry if you feel that way.No way am i intending to attack!The same questions, and quotes over and over again, when you know only the CREW can answer is an attack
2.What are some of us doing to Older Monkeys? Questioning our trust
3.From who's Stand point? Several of us here
4."There's no reason to dissect some of what we are talking about?"Why and who says?  Some stuff is just cut and dry
5.Is it not true that Kyle Heard Silvetti say "Tim was a liability".Why would Tim be a liability??  LOL, you are the one who keeps quoting this.  I suggest you & Kermit read your posts (quotes) prior to requoting

Again.Kyle could clear this up very quickly but chooses not to do so!Why??I think he could explain himself??JMOO.  He wont!  He will not put himself through what some of us are put through.  So stop asking him to, please. The answer is simply no.

Again.With the apparent wealth of knowledge in education,as well as business,and to allow what occured out there on the Persistence for me is Horrific.I have tried to undertsand what kind of incompetence it would take to have Natalee potentially under your boat and let ALE come in and drive away with the contents of the cage.Again.This is just my opinion.I'm still trusting in the fact that the other 2 witnesses will come forward Hotshot!  Oh they are, and if you'd read, more then argue, you'd see its already happening

What i see people doing is asking questions and comparing ideology!If You weren't to do such then you would have no need for a forum??JMOO.Since i'm a newer Monkey please clue me into the protocol of how to treat the elder Monkey's??

[Keepthefaith]

Can you answer this question Hotshot??

HotShot"Again, i cant make anyone believe or agree, and thats fine.  You'll see in the end who is who, and what was right and wrong."

Are you implying that you know what the End Story is????Yes or No...

[Frank]

Greta coming up on "the View" talking about the latest evidence.

Great work by Greta, taking this to ABC. Oh yeah, some would rather have her go on Dan Rather Reports because we wouldn't want to accuse her of a ratings grab.

But I'm happy to know a few million more people will hear about this today.

Don't think they will hear about a trap and some underwater photo's. they will hear things that hopefully set them off. Joran and Rudy Croes.

[Keepthefaith]

Greta coming up on "the View" talking about the latest evidence.

Great work by Greta, taking this to ABC. Oh yeah, some would rather have her go on Dan Rather Reports because we wouldn't want to accuse her of a ratings grab.

But I'm happy to know a few million more people will hear about this today.

Don't think they will hear about a trap and some underwater photo's. they will hear things that hopefully set them off. Joran and Rudy Croes.

When done can you update ehat they talked about Frank??TIA

[Helen Back]

Greta coming up on "the View" talking about the latest evidence.

Great work by Greta, taking this to ABC. Oh yeah, some would rather have her go on Dan Rather Reports because we wouldn't want to accuse her of a ratings grab.

But I'm happy to know a few million more people will hear about this today.

Don't think they will hear about a trap and some underwater photo's. they will hear things that hopefully set them off. Joran and Rudy Croes.

When done can you update ehat they talked about Frank??TIA

Yes, TIA Frank.  I missed it too.

[Hotshot]

Can you answer this question Hotshot??

HotShot"Again, i cant make anyone believe or agree, and thats fine.  You'll see in the end who is who, and what was right and wrong."

Are you implying that you know what the End Story is????Yes or No...

No-one knows the ending to this story.  I wish I could say, all the teepees will fall, and that those who did the horrific things would be put away for life.  From the highest ranking, right down to the kalpoes.  But we all know, this is Aruba.  I feel this thing going on with Rudy Croes right now is something to keep our eyes on, because it is BIG.  Why did he wait so long?  Is this just to make him look good for elections next year?(thats what some arubans seem to think)  Was someone going to rat him out soon?  Was it what joran said on national TV?  Whats it all about?  It is going to get interesting to say the least, and it is our job to make sure no-one is left out.  We need to compile a list of DirtyHands from the beginning to end, and force it into the Netherlands hands, Interpols hands....Leave no-one out!

[klaasend]

There is no protocol on how to treat "old" vs. "new" monkeys.  Seems there is an effort underway to disrupt this forum by some "older" monkeys.  I'm not suggesting that Hotshot is one of those "older" monkeys but there does appear to be an effort going on behind the scenes.  I'm not talking about only in this forum but also in the Caylee Anthony forum. I have a pretty good idea who the "older" monkeys are that are behind the effort.  The words pathetic, laughable and wrong come to mind.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Greta coming up on "the View" talking about the latest evidence.

Great work by Greta, taking this to ABC. Oh yeah, some would rather have her go on Dan Rather Reports because we wouldn't want to accuse her of a ratings grab.

But I'm happy to know a few million more people will hear about this today.

Don't think they will hear about a trap and some underwater photo's. they will hear things that hopefully set them off. Joran and Rudy Croes.

When done can you update ehat they talked about Frank??TIA

I missed it here on the east coast and just checked their website.  It seems they only have last weeks videos and recaps, as of now.