Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[Buckeye]

Ronnie...Welcome!

Do you recall the friend's name that was with Joran when you first met him?

Thank You in Advance!

The friend's name was Dary (Not Daury, when the video with Patrick was released and Joran mentioned the name Daury, I thought about it.. but the two names are pronouced totally different).. I believe they had told us Dary was 15, he looked younger than Joran. We only met Dary that first initial day, he didn't come around anymore after that. Didn't get a last name, I wish I had but we didn't even know Joran's last name until we exchanged email addresses (Jorans last name was part of the email address he used back then)..

=]

Now this is interesting.  The one person I know, that hung out with Joran, regularly and looked young, was Sander.  Who knows what his pimp/street name was.

Klaas  Could you post a couple of Sander's pics for Ronnie to look at??

[Magnolia]

I had never noticed the hat in that picture.  Too busy focusing
on the skull, I guess.
It is there plain as day, complete with the bite out of the bill.

[Buckeye]

Does anyone else remember, when Paulus was denied compensation.  Karen J had shown a slide show, during the appeal,  which explained the two contacts with Natalee...and I swear...there was something mentioned about wiretaps and contact between Van der Straaten and Paulus.   

[Anna]

Wreck, I understand that you don't see it but I do.  I live near a major river and have seen tug boat pilots wearing very very similar caps as well.

We all saw different things looking into the photos over the last 3 years.

And this is what I see when I look at the baggies.

It isn't right/wrong.  It is just the contents of the bag as they appear to me.


.

[wreck]

I found the other picture on thread #782, but I have never known how to quote to a new thread.....

 

If you just want to bring over a picture, do this:

right click on the picture
the sub menu will list "properties" -- right click this
a dialog box will appear with an "address"
highlight the adress and copy it
Now go the current thread
make a new post and paste this address in the box
highlight this addresss you posted and click on the "insert image" button from the tool box above.

[truthseeker2]

I still say this image has me puzzled.  This had to be what the divers were looking at when they gave the thumbs down signal.  The thumbs down came at 15:39 and this image was at 15:40.  While we cannot be certain what we are seeing here, it certainly isn't nothing.  Tim T actually used the word 'Nothing' when he came back onboard.  Also, I cannot believe no one onboard saw this image on the monitor.

I am still intrigued by this sequence.  How is this 'Nothing'?

[Anna]

I had never noticed the hat in that picture.  Too busy focusing
on the skull, I guess.
It is there plain as day, complete with the bite out of the bill.

Thanks, Magnolia.  It is to me but apparently not to others.  I don't see how it could be anything else but then I usually can't see what others do in photos.

Just sharing what I see and understand others may or may not see it.  We are all entitled.  

[Lifesong]

Thanks, Wreck!

This is the same bag - I think from this angle it looks more like material wrapped around the hip/pelvic bone. 

[wreck]

I had never noticed the hat in that picture.  Too busy focusing
on the skull, I guess.
It is there plain as day, complete with the bite out of the bill.

Thanks, Magnolia.  It is to me but apparently not to others.  I don't see how it could be anything else but then I usually can't see what others do in photos.

Just sharing what I see and understand others may or may not see it.  We are all entitled.  

I don't see it!  I do see something similar in color to the "denim skirt" on the far right hand side (past the door frame)

[Anna]

And how did they know it was nothing so very quickly?

We don't know if everything was collected or just items that the divers found interesting.

In that second photo, the cap appears to have a rock or what might be a second sneaker on it.

Was anything of the greenish whatever underneath it collected?

We just don't know the extent of the collection process, methods or anything else really.

[truthseeker2]

I had never noticed the hat in that picture.  Too busy focusing
on the skull, I guess.
It is there plain as day, complete with the bite out of the bill.

Thanks, Magnolia.  It is to me but apparently not to others.  I don't see how it could be anything else but then I usually can't see what others do in photos.

Just sharing what I see and understand others may or may not see it.  We are all entitled.  

Anna,
I also see what could be a cap.  I didn't until you mentioned it.  Interesting....

[Anna]

I had never noticed the hat in that picture.  Too busy focusing
on the skull, I guess.
It is there plain as day, complete with the bite out of the bill.

Thanks, Magnolia.  It is to me but apparently not to others.  I don't see how it could be anything else but then I usually can't see what others do in photos.

Just sharing what I see and understand others may or may not see it.  We are all entitled.  

I don't see it!  I do see something similar in color to the "denim skirt" on the far right hand side (past the door frame)

Go straight down from what some say is the skull and see the light blue crecent with what could be gold braid or some sort of growth in front of the light blue crescent.

From the more side angle, the bill looks mostly black.  That is in the first photo of the trap I posted.

[Anna]

Straight down and a little to the right in the photo, from what appears to some as a skull a little less that the height of the "skull" and you will see the cap.

It would be straight down on the person in the photos with Natalee superimposed over what was in the trap.  Sort of on her chest.

[Nut44x4]

I HAVE NOT had time to read everything......are we locking on 50??



? lol

[RonnieNY87]

Ronnie...Welcome!

Do you recall the friend's name that was with Joran when you first met him?

Thank You in Advance!

Hi Ronnie, thanks for the info. When you have time, please check out the pics on this site to see if you recognize Joran's friend DARY. Do you recall if Dary looked Dutch, or Indian/Surinamese/Colombian - and possibly anything else about him - such as hair color and height? TIA.

Thanks Ronnie and Poochy...

Nationality or anything else you can recall would be very helpful Ronnie as Joran maintains he hung around the tourist spots with Jamie and Freddy. Long hair, short hair, etc.

This Dary that Joran was with, resembled Satish and Deepak.. He was dark; dark skin, dark hair.. He was shorter than Joran, but taller than me (i'm 5'3) so i'd say he was around 5'5.. His hair was short, not completely shaved but not much there either.. Oh and the next time we saw Joran, he told us that Dary was annoying and constantly followed him around, he couldnt stand him. Great friend huh? I've looked through all of the pictures since the beginning of the case, but so far I haven't seen any picture of Dary in anything.. I wonder who he was and what happened to him? I'm sorry, wish I could of been more help!

[Lifesong]

This is the other image of the material/cap in the bag, where Klaas zoomed in on it so we could see if it was a pelvic/hip bone.

Cap or Material?

[blah]

I did not save the comparison photo Klaas made with a regular policeman's cap but this is one of the contents of the bags that we have seen.

I clearly see just such a cap as is worn by police and sometimes boat personnel with a circular emblem above the remains of what appears to me to be the bill of the cap.

This would be an even greater coincidence than that of the skirt image.  We do not know if this is the ONLY fabric that was found and collected but the blue in this photo inside the baggie could not be anything other than the remains of a service cap.

I do realize this is only my opinion and do not need anyone to tell me that but I see what I see.  If there were no remains of Natalee found in that trap, while I agree they were mishandled, it becomes somewhat of a moot point.  The problem then could be were there remains and they were not collected or not properly, etc.

But I still say I clearly see a service cap.  What are the odds of an emblem above a bill in just that position otherwise? 

could it be one of these hats???



http://www.aruba.com/news/general-news/aruba-hospitality-security-foundation-ahsf-introduces-the-downtown-visibility-team/

[Blonde]

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753

Totally understand what you are saying.  Wish i had been there for that ...  I wasn't.  I can't say what John thought or didnt think, but I would think if kyle said it, he would know.  I didnt get to talk to him(john) about all of this, and it was just after the search, so what really was there to talk about.  I really didnt want to pry at that point.  I don't doubt it all happened.  but I will say this, he doesn't know the story like we all do.  if that was us over there, you know it would have gone differently, for sure....whether it landed us in jail or not.  But us older generations look at the ALE as being superior (used to) anyway, ,and that was probably the path john was taking.  I don't know for sure, so dont quote that.  It is a shame it all happened this way.  I agree with you.  But I think there are bigger and better things coming in the name of Rudy Croes...No I don't know for sure,...just seems different this time.   
Silvetti does have a daughter who has apparently been following the case and I would never post her pic. I'd be embarrased to think that she might be reading all these things that have been posted about her father. Please dont post her pic, she is only a few years older then Natalee, and I am sure that is what fueled John to do the search too.  That pic we saw, did not look like her BTW. 

If you are talking about Silvetti that is the problem.Were the crew of the Persistence not briefed extensively on the background of this investigation???One would think you'd research this entire investigation from beginning to end to understand what you're dealing with.Especially when it concerns the Aruban authorities!

Keepthefaith

Hotshot ... I think the issue encompassing the contents of the cage is HUGE.  If there were remains in the cage and ... those were the remains of Natalee Holloway ... it was her family's only opportunity to bring her home ... home to rest on American soil.

Considering ... the ROV images ... considering Kyle's words regarding the chain of custody ... THIS THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED BY THE "POWERS THAT BE" IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Justice for Natalee Holloway ... closure for her family and ... accountability for those who sacrificially donated to a search effort that should have been aware of the dynamics encompassing the Aruban coverup ... demands it!

Janet

_______


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

You Forgot This

[Anna]

Lifesong,

I still see the cap with the back torn or out and something shoved into it.

The bill appears to be at the top in that photo you posted.  Note it is a perfect, straight edged semi circle.  Perfect shapes seldom occur in nature, IMO.  Like never, in fact.

But we have no real way of knowing and also no way of knowing if this was the only fabric or material collected from the trap or really anything else.  There could have been baggies we did not see, etc.

[Buckeye]

Thanks Ronnie