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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08  (Read 221050 times)
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Nut44x4
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.


« on: December 10, 2008, 07:41:52 AM »

<a href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf" target="_blank">http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf</a>



JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 06:48:42 PM by 2NJSons_Mom » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 01:06:40 PM »

  hello?
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 01:07:18 PM »

   Where are the others?
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 01:11:53 PM »

 Shocked
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2008, 01:21:26 PM »

caesu said :

i am trying to find this out. was it Theresa Croes-Fernandes already? or a Dutch PG?

it is important because the PG has a VERY important role when conflicts of interest (within the ALE) are at play during an investigation.
the fact that Paul van der Sloot was Chief of Cabinet for the PG before 2003 shows how close Van der Sloot was to the PG.
that is the highest position in the office of the PG.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a letter >  Croes was in Holland  till 6 june





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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2008, 01:40:20 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: SS on Today at 11:44:32 AM
I have had a lingering thought about Urine's admission that he sold Natalee for $10K.  In my business, I have worked with numerous sociopaths over the years and I have learned that there is usually some element of truth in their twisted stories.  I am wondering if Urine and his friends and/or Paulass have been involved with selling victims or if Urine knows that his father has been involved with human trafficking.  This might not have been Natalee's fate, but perhaps this could have been the fate of other victims that Urine is aware of and/or has been involved with.  This could very easily be the hook that Urine has to his father and other adults on Aruba.  I suspect that Urine's performance with Greta was a message to the "higher powers" that he wants more money and that he is prepared to drop the dime on all of them.  I don't think that Urine's story about handing the blonde girl over for a bag with $9600 has anything to do with Natalee directly.  There is something about the amount of money being short several hundred dollars that sticks out.  Did Urine get a hush money check that was less than the agreed amount?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SS,

I have not ruled out the possibility that Joran did sell Natalee.  And, I do believe it is possible that she may not have been the first one.  She may just have been the first American girl he was involved with trafficking.

We have seen that Joran is heavily addicted to gambling.  He has stolen from people since he left Aruba.  While in Aruba he seemed to have money to gamble with, yet no job to fall back on to earn his gambling money. 

Joran stated in his last interview that he knew "this man' from the Radisson.  The evening of 5/30 Joran is out gambling in and around the Radisson.  Where did he get the money?  If you had just murdered someone, why would you be out and about...when you have the excuse that it is a school night...instead of keeping a low profile.  Do we really think this 17 year old kid who was smart enough to get rid of a dead body would be stupid enough to be seen out and about the very next night?

Paulus stated that Joran had his gym bag with him when he dropped him off at the racquet club the afternoon of 5/30.  I believe it has been confirmed that Joran did not play tennis that afternoon.   Was this a bag of money?  And that he met several friends there.  One of which says his phone was stolen that very day.  Hmm.  I doubt anyone checked the cell calls to and from that number on 5/30.

Or, a case could be made for the scenario that Joran was heavily in debt to one of the casinos...could the trafficking of an American blonde clear his debt?  And with all the publicity he thinks he can blackmail these people when he gets low on cash by telling the media what he did with enough of a twist that will implicate his own father's activity in the coverup. 

I can't figure out if the guy is brilliant or stupid.
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2008, 01:45:48 PM »

Yesterday we came to the conclusion that Remkes probably is the guy who asked / ordered the Arubans in 2005 to present Jurine van der Sloot as being an Aruban. Remkes was the Dutch minister of Internal / Home Affairs and Kingdomrelations then.

This week he voted against bringing in the Rijksrecherche to investigate all the wrongdoings in the Natalee Holloway investigation. He was rather cynical about the alligations that Croes made about VdStraten last week; he said that he didn't think of Croes as very trustworthy.

He's not a member of the government anymore; he now is a member of Parliament for the liberal conservative VVD as the VanderSloots are. But he still is an influencial guy and still has a lot of authority in the Home and Dutch Antilles affairs.

Today I sent an email to Johan Remkes (see previous thread).

For anyone who wants to email Johan Remkes as well here's his emailaddress: j.remkes@tweedekamer.nl

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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 01:52:24 PM »

Yesterday we came to the conclusion that Remkes probably is the guy who asked / ordered the Arubans in 2005 to present Jurine van der Sloot as being an Aruban. Remkes was the Dutch minister of Internal / Home Affairs and Kingdomrelations then.

This week he voted against bringing in the Rijksrecherche to investigate all the wrongdoings in the Natalee Holloway investigation. He was rather cynical about the alligations that Croes made about VdStraten last week; he said that he didn't think of Croes as very trustworthy.

He's not a member of the government anymore; he now is a member of Parliament for the liberal conservative VVD as the VanderSloots are. But he still is an influencial guy and still has a lot of authority in the Home and Dutch Antilles affairs.

Today I sent an email to Johan Remkes (see previous thread).

For anyone who wants to email Johan Remkes as well here's his emailaddress: j.remkes@tweedekamer.nl



With that information, Remkes is as good as good a conclusion as any.  In fact, that information makes it very likely that he is the one.  imo  It will be interesting to watch this play out.
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 01:56:33 PM »

Originally copied, but not translated, from another site.

Just a place to record PVDS history....for caesu and all:


looking for van der sloot's appointment
Origineel persbericht.

Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties
Persbericht ministerraad van het Koninkrijk
25 februari 2005


BENOEMING GEMEENSCHAPPELIJK HOF VAN JUSTITIE NEDERLANDSE ANTILLEN EN ARUBA

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van minister De Graaf voor Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om de heer mr. H.A.C. Smid en de heer mr. F.J.F. Gerard voor te dragen voor benoeming als leden van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba.

De heer Smid (1946) is momenteel rechter bij de arrondissementsrechtbank in Dordrecht. Daarvoor was hij Landelijk Officier van Justitie voor het Meldpunt Ongebruikelijke Transacties. Zijn standplaats wordt Curaçao.

De heer Gerard (1961) is momenteel rechter bij de rechtbank in Arnhem. Daarvoor was hij senior-jurist bij het ministerie van Defensie. Zijn standplaats wordt Aruba.

De benoemingen gaan in op 1 maart 2005.

RVD, 25.02.2005

Nieuwe rechters bij Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba
19 juli 2002

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd vijf rechters bij het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba voor te dragen voor benoeming.

Het zijn:
- mr. F.M. Wieland, vice-president van de arrondissementsrechtbank in Groningen;
- mr. C. van den Noort, rechter aan de arrondissementsrechtbank in Groningen;
- mr. P.A.H. Lemaire, rechter aan de arrondissementsrechtbank in Arnhem;
- mr. R. Hoekstra, rechter aan de arrondissementsrechtbank in Rotterdam;
- mr. W.P.M. ter Berg, vice-president van de arrondissementsrechtbank in Middelburg.

Daarnaast draagt de Rijksministerraad mr. P.W. van Schendel voor als plaatsvervangend rechter bij het Hof. Hij treedt binnenkort terug als vice-president van de arrondissementsrechtbank in Utrecht. Alle benoemingen gaan in op 1 augustus a.s., behalve de benoeming van mr. Ter Berg die ingaat op 1 oktober a.s.

Benoemingen gemeenschappelijk hof van justitie Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba
1 juni 2001

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om vier leden voor te dragen voor benoeming tot lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba.


De vier leden zijn:


mr. W.M.J. Hoppers, vice-president van het gerechtshof in 's-Hertogenbosch;
mr. D. van den Brink, rechter aan het gerechtshof in Rotterdam;
mr. C. Slothouber, vice-president van het gerechtshof in Utrecht;
mr. H. Warnink, coördinerend vice-president van het gerechtshof in Alkmaar.
De benoemingen gaan in per 1 augustus aanstaande, behalve de benoeming van de heer Warnink die ingaat per 1 oktober aanstaande. De heer Slothouber krijgt als standplaats Aruba, de andere drie rechters gaan op Curaçao werken.

Benoemingen rechterlijke macht Aruba en Antillen
27 juni 2005

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van minister Pechtold voor Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om acht leden en één plaatsvervangend lid voor te dragen voor (her)benoeming in het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba.

Het gaat om de benoeming op de standplaats Curaçao per 1 augustus 2005 van mr. J.M.P. Drijkoningen (raadsheer in het Gerechtshof te 's-Hertogenbosch), mr. K.J. Haarhuis (rechter in de rechtbank te Almelo), mw. mr. A.M.P. Geelhoed (rechter in de rechtbank Middelburg), mw. mr. L. de Kerpel-van de Poel (rechter in de rechtbank Maastricht), mw. mr. A.S. Gratama (rechter in de rechtbank Breda) en, per 1 september 2005, van mr. H.L. Wattel (rechter in de rechtbank Breda).

Voor de standplaats Aruba per 1 augustus 2005 gaat het om mr. H.E. de Boer (raadsheer in het Gerechtshof Arnhem) en mr. J.A. van Voorthuizen (rechter in de rechtbank Zwolle).

Mr. P. W. van Schendel zal per 1 augustus 2005 in Curaçao worden herbenoemd als plaatsvervangend lid in het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie, voor de duur van drie jaar.

De Rijksministerraad heeft tevens ingestemd met de voordracht voor benoeming van mr. N. Jörg tot advocaat-generaal van Aruba. De heer Jörg is sinds 1 februari advocaat-generaal bij de Hoge Raad der Nederlanden.

 

 
Ministerie van Algemene Zaken
Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties
Persbericht Rijksministerraad 20 december 2002

Benoemingen gemeenschappelijk hof van justitie van de nederlandse Antillen en aruba

De Rijksministerraad heeft op voorstel van minister Remkes van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties ingestemd met een tweetal benoemingen.

De heer mr. G.E.M. Polkamp (52) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Momenteel is de heer Polkamp plaatsvervangend lid van het Hof. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003.

De heer mr. P.A.P.J. van der Sloot (50) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. De heer van der Sloot is nu werkzaam als kabinetschef bij de procureur-generaal van Aruba. De benoeming gaat in op
1 januari 2003 voor een periode van drie jaar.

RVD, 20.12.2002

http://www.nieuwsbank.nl/inp/2002/12/20/R280.htm



Benoeming procureur-generaal op Aruba
25 januari 2002

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om mevrouw mr. Drs. T.D. Croes-Fernandes Pedra voor te dragen voor benoeming tot procureur-generaal op Aruba.

Zij is op dit moment senior rechter en fungerend president bij het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Mevrouw Croes volgt als procureur-generaal mr. W.R. Rosingh op. De benoeming gaat in op 1 februari a.s.

 
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2008, 01:57:02 PM »

Yesterday we came to the conclusion that Remkes probably is the guy who asked / ordered the Arubans in 2005 to present Jurine van der Sloot as being an Aruban. Remkes was the Dutch minister of Internal / Home Affairs and Kingdomrelations then.

This week he voted against bringing in the Rijksrecherche to investigate all the wrongdoings in the Natalee Holloway investigation. He was rather cynical about the alligations that Croes made about VdStraten last week; he said that he didn't think of Croes as very trustworthy.

He's not a member of the government anymore; he now is a member of Parliament for the liberal conservative VVD as the VanderSloots are. But he still is an influencial guy and still has a lot of authority in the Home and Dutch Antilles affairs.

Today I sent an email to Johan Remkes (see previous thread).

For anyone who wants to email Johan Remkes as well here's his emailaddress: j.remkes@tweedekamer.nl

The motto of your email could be: "Remkes, you can bring Natalee home!"
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 02:01:53 PM »

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 02:05:45 PM »

Vocking......Caps posted in Shango 3....Full name, birthdate, place of birth and IIRC address of both Vocking and his wife. This was April 2008.

Caps posted Vocking...Not King
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2008, 02:13:18 PM »

500 Aruban Guilders

ss writes: "...a bag with $9600..."

The difference between the goon's $10,000.00 statement to Greta, and what he actually said he received ("a couple hundred short") is close to the amount of money (cash) Paulus says he deposited at the CMB bank the next day.  500 Aruban Guilders is equal to about $275.00.

.
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2008, 02:14:26 PM »

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Sorry, can't help you with that.
My knowledge of all the Aruban Sloot connections is very ... well, absent actually... 
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2008, 02:19:16 PM »

Aruba
Two years in jail for Omar Hirschfeld
13 Dec, 2008, 14:38 (GMT -04:00)



ORANGE CITY - Omar Hirschfeld, ex-jailer at the Institute Korrektie Aruba, was approved by the court to two years in prison sentenced, in accordance with the requirements of the Public Prosecutor. Hirschfeld must now 'behind bars' with the prisoners for whom he has drugs and smuggled mobile phones.

Hirschfeld was clearly not agree with this view and said that he appeals against it. The ex-jailer has occurred during the handling of this case defended by saying that in this case is a conspiracy against him, that the prisoners a "set-up 'against him have planned.
In his opinion, the court has stated that he does not believe, because the prisoners have extensively explained that Hirschfeld is indeed illegal goods is smuggled into the prison, and how he did this. It goes according to the court are a serious matter, because Hirschfeld in his role as jailer the everyday functioning of the KIA has put in danger and therefore the integrity of the corrective Institute has stained. Furthermore, the court placed considerable emphasis on the fact that Hirschfeld, because of this corruption, it does not deserve to serving the Aruban government to work. Also, the court recalled that the culprit is two kilos of marijuana in his home have been found during a search.
In addition to a prison two years, may Hirschfeld after serving his sentence of three years for public works.
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2008, 02:19:46 PM »

500 Aruban Guilders

ss writes: "...a bag with $9600..."

The difference between the goon's $10,000.00 statement to Greta, and what he actually said he received ("a couple hundred short") is close to the amount of money (cash) Paulus says he deposited at the CMB bank the next day.  500 Aruban Guilders is equal to about $275.00.

.

A little truth mixed in with the lies?  Coincidence?  Hmmm...

Here is something I find interesting from the CIA report on human trafficking:

Children tend to be trafficked within their own countries,
while women between the ages of 18 and 30 are often trafficked internationally,
sometimes with the consent of their husbands or other family members. Major
source and recruitment countries include Brazil, Colombia, the Dominican Republic,
Uruguay, Venezuela, and Suriname. Spain, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal, and
the United States are commonly identified as countries of destination for Latin
American trafficking victims.


Argentina and Brazil have also served as destination countries for women trafficked from the Andes or Caribbean countries

http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22human+trafficking%22+cia+caribbean&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.ilw.com/immigdaily/news/2007%2C1009-crs.pdf&w=%22human+trafficking%22+cia+caribbean&d=QynD-EfiR8S4&icp=1&.intl=us



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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2008, 02:19:55 PM »

Remkes talking in September 2006 about the KLPD taking over the investigation.
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/rnw/smac/2004/car_remkes_op_aruba_20060902.wma (in Dutch) (Windows Media Player)

http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/car20060209_remkes.html

he met with Oduber in Oranjestad. Croes was not there. there was speculation of 'friction' between Remkes and Croes.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/06/no-friction-between-croes-and-remkes-all-is-well-in-aruban-paradise/

http://www.minbzk.nl/actueel/nieuws--en/99463/minister_remkes
Quote
Het bezoek staat in het teken van veiligheid en rechtshandhaving op de eilanden. De gesprekken op Aruba richten zich voornamelijk op de samenwerking met het Korps Politie Aruba en de bestrijding van zware en grensoverschrijdende (drugs)criminaliteit.
Quote
Een gesprek met minister Croes van Justitie kan helaas niet plaatsvinden omdat deze uitlandig zal zijn.

Aruba asked for Dutch help in the investigation.
pre-condition of Remkes was that the KLPD (Dutch National Police) was in full charge of the investigation.
Remkes as Interior / Home Affairs Minister was Manager of the KLPD.
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2008, 02:28:46 PM »

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Was Paulus in charge of contracts on Aruba when Posner got
his casino contract?
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2008, 02:30:39 PM »

Caps posted this, and I assumed he was looking at a current database, otherwise he would have had to look at one before mid 2005, according to what Marriane Croes stated about Vocking changing his name. IIRC that was from December 2005.


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #823 on: April 24, 2008, 02:03:34 PM »

Quote Caps

ok
now we are talking

Vocking   Bernardus FC               1/14/1948   Nijmegen   De La Sallestraat 14
Vocking, geb. de Droog   Anna MJ   6/3/1959             Amsterdam   De La Sallestraat 14

The man and the wife.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.820

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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2008, 02:33:54 PM »

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Thanks to Hasibokus for this translation of a recent Dutch article on Paul(us) Van der Sloot. It's interesting background reading on the man just released while his son remains in custody.

My headline for the article wouldn't have been quite so glowing. There appears to be more than a hint of self interest in his biggest claim to fame and no mention of his potential judgeship having been de-railed prior to the Natalee Holloway case based upon performance evaluations - according to Fox.

Van der Sloot, persistent lawyer with principles

The lawyer Paul van der Sloot, that is detained in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway affair is here mostly known for his 20-year fight against the building of a motorway around Boxtel.

Boxtel

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place. 

There was a huge disbelief in Aruba when he was arrested for his alleged involvement in disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Boxtel had experienced him as someone who would always persevere and had a thorough manner of working. 

Paul van der Sloot fought twenty years long (from 1973 until 1993) with local residents against the construction of a southern motorway, that had to be build partly over the estate of the Van der Sloot family. Paul van der Sloot stood his ground and fought civil servants and politicians that had proposed and produced the faulty plans for the new motorway in the Cousil of State. The motorway came eventually but it was not laid through the scenic valuable territory anymore but further away. 

In his birthplace Boxtel, van der Sloot was criticized a lot because while he was fighting the developments of the new motorway,  the dangerous traffic was still led trough Boxel and this was causing accidents and consequently was costing the lives of many people.  Van der Sloot was seen as a fault-finder that to prevent the motorway from being build on part of his land, was willing to sacrifice the lives of the youth who attended the schools in the vicinity of the local dangerous streets. Van der Sloot said later on that the criticism hurt him deeply.

Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.

New job

In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government. The ministers there were not impressed with his stance  „I always first try to find a compromise. By simply prosecuting nobody gets wiser.  If the authorities do something wrong I will always admit that. You must never interpret the facts differently then what they are.  I am convinced that on the long run this will give better results“, According to Van der Sloot in an interview ten years ago in the Brabants Dagblad. 

After a while Van der Sloot got a different assigment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts. Van der Sloot considered going back to The Netherlands, but he liked the small scale of Aruba and as it appeared he had enough possibilities to continue with his career.  He became cabinets leader for the public ministry and gave classes of Administrative Law at the local university. 

Judge

Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge.  With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years.  During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court.  Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet.



Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

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