Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[MumInOhio]

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Was Paulus in charge of contracts on Aruba when Posner got
his casino contract?

Not sure, Magnolia. I have been trying to figure out what he did and when.

The Casino is under Posner's son's name...On my other computer, so I would have to track down the date of that...will look for it.

[Tamikosmom]

Yesterday we came to the conclusion that Remkes probably is the guy who asked / ordered the Arubans in 2005 to present Jurine van der Sloot as being an Aruban. Remkes was the Dutch minister of Internal / Home Affairs and Kingdomrelations then.

This week he voted against bringing in the Rijksrecherche to investigate all the wrongdoings in the Natalee Holloway investigation. He was rather cynical about the alligations that Croes made about VdStraten last week; he said that he didn't think of Croes as very trustworthy.

He's not a member of the government anymore; he now is a member of Parliament for the liberal conservative VVD as the VanderSloots are. But he still is an influencial guy and still has a lot of authority in the Home and Dutch Antilles affairs.

Today I sent an email to Johan Remkes (see previous thread).

For anyone who wants to email Johan Remkes as well here's his emailaddress: j.remkes@tweedekamer.nl

The motto of your email could be: "Remkes, you can bring Natalee home!"

Yes!!!

Mabye Remkes could bring Natalee home if he would investigate what were the contents of the cage/trap which the Persistence discovered and ... John Silvetti turned over to the enemy in exchange for his self-serving interests.

However ... when you consider that the Dutch (Remkes) was put in charge by Rudy Croes of investigating the Natalee Holloway case investigation back in August, 2005 and the endeavor came naught and ... when you consider the conflict of interest regarding a Paulus van der Sloot connection ... maybe the ball is in Kyle Kingman's court in regards to the possibility of bringing an eighteen year old American citizen home.

Dave Holloway, Beth Holloway, the FBI and John Kelly have recently come into possession of the ROV images through those who have upheld the family since day one in their contention that a corrupt investigation has denied their beloved Natalee justice but ... Kyle's testimony regarding his conerns about the John Silvetti/ALE connection would be the icing on the cake.

Janet

______


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

oceanexploration: "Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal." 


oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.     The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

 
THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »
Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[Magnolia]

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Was Paulus in charge of contracts on Aruba when Posner got
his casino contract?

Not sure, Magnolia. I have been trying to figure out what he did and when.

The Casino is under Posner's son's name...On my other computer, so I would have to track down the date of that...will look for it.

The casino's web site says that it has been in business for 30 years.
But it was previously owned by anothers

This casino was first opened by Danny Jones in 1985 after he purchased it from Frank King (formerly King International Casino).  On September 1,1998 the GHC was sold to Mike Posner and he renamed the casino Excelsior Casino. I recently had spoken with Mike about the GHC's inventory of chips and he can not release any of the old chips for another year or so.

[MumInOhio]

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Was Paulus in charge of contracts on Aruba when Posner got
his casino contract?

Not sure, Magnolia. I have been trying to figure out what he did and when.

The Casino is under Posner's son's name...On my other computer, so I would have to track down the date of that...will look for it.

The casino's web site says that it has been in business for 30 years.
But it was previously owned by anothers

This casino was first opened by Danny Jones in 1985 after he purchased it from Frank King (formerly King International Casino).  On September 1,1998 the GHC was sold to Mike Posner and he renamed the casino Excelsior Casino. I recently had spoken with Mike about the GHC's inventory of chips and he can not release any of the old chips for another year or so.

Sorry...Can't post the link...it says RWV, but the link says RU!

Magnolia if you google RU and NH research it should take you there...Lots of 2005 business info there.


EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998

Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".

[2NJSons_Mom]

Mum,

This is what is in the chamber of commerce registry now, but I am having trouble copying....the pop up closes each time I attempt to do so....I entered Excelsior Casino N.V.:

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

Just realized that you will have to redo the search.

[Magnolia]

Mum, off the top of your head, do you know who Posner's
Aruban partner is?  Don't you have to have an Aruban parner
to open a business on the island?

I would think that in 1998 Paulus was in charge of contracts,
and had a hand in Posner obtaining the casino.

[klaasend]

Mum,

This is what is in the chamber of commerce registry now, but I am having trouble copying....the pop up closes each time I attempt to do so....I entered Excelsior Casino N.V.:

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

Just realized that you will have to redo the search.

[MumInOhio]

Mum,

This is what is in the chamber of commerce registry now, but I am having trouble copying....the pop up closes each time I attempt to do so....I entered Excelsior Casino N.V.:

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

Just realized that you will have to redo the search.

LOL...This computer won't let anything pop up even with the pop up blocker off...Only got that far...What does it say?  TIA

Magnolia...I don't know about the partner thing...Read some things a while ago about moving to Aruba, but pretty sure you just can't pop in and buy a casino.  Well I couldn't!

[MumInOhio]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

[Magnolia]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Klaas to the rescue!  Old operating system here and it does some wacky things.  (maybe Santa will bring me a new one)

I had forgotten about Caps mentioning an Aruban partner.....I was off searching and only found Chicago related names.

[MumInOhio]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

Charles is tied in with De Palm Tours...Posted something about that in Shango, may be a page back...but it isn't listed on his Chamber records either!

2NJS...They disappear when I try to copy them as well...there is a secret!

[Magnolia]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

Charles is tied in with De Palm Tours...Posted something about that in Shango, may be a page back...but it isn't listed on his Chamber records either!

2NJS...They disappear when I try to copy them as well...there is a secret!

Charles Croes was born in New York.  His parents live in West Palm Beach,
Florida.  I seriously doubt that he has Aruban citizenship.
He is an American Traitor, along with Julia Renfro, Mark Pursell, and Posner.

[MumInOhio]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

Charles is tied in with De Palm Tours...Posted something about that in Shango, may be a page back...but it isn't listed on his Chamber records either!

2NJS...They disappear when I try to copy them as well...there is a secret!

Charles Croes was born in New York.  His parents live in West Palm Beach,
Florida.  I seriously doubt that he has Aruban citizenship.
He is an American Traitor, along with Julia Renfro, Mark Pursell, and Posner.

 

Business ties...Too hard for me to copy on this computer, but there is an article about Fast Phones, Charles and De Palm Tours in Shango.  Should only be a page or so back.

Also some interesting stuff in the Charles Croes thread.

Interesting email between Grande and Charles.

What do do...Work or post with Mags...

[San]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

Charles is tied in with De Palm Tours...Posted something about that in Shango, may be a page back...but it isn't listed on his Chamber records either!

2NJS...They disappear when I try to copy them as well...there is a secret!

Charles Croes was born in New York.  His parents live in West Palm Beach,
Florida.  I seriously doubt that he has Aruban citizenship.
He is an American Traitor, along with Julia Renfro, Mark Pursell, and Posner.

I agree.  I hope they all burn hell.

[truthseeker2]

Charles Croes was born in New York.  His parents live in West Palm Beach,
Florida.  I seriously doubt that he has Aruban citizenship.
He is an American Traitor, along with Julia Renfro, Mark Pursell, and Posner.

That is one disgusting group of people.  And to think, two of the people on that list made direct contact with Beth and Jug immediately after they arrived on Aruba.

[caesu]

in September 2006 then Minister of Home Affairs Johan Remkes said that the KLPD investigation in the Holloway-case 'likely would take weeks, not months'.

by then the KLPD was about to take over the investigation.

the Minister of Home Affairs is Manager (Korpsbeheerder) of the KLPD

Kingdom Relations are also part of the Ministry of Home Affairs.
but in 2005 and 2006 there was a special Minister without portfolio (without a actual Ministry) for Kingdom Relations.
now there as a State Secretary for Kingdom Relations, resorting under the Ministry for Home Affairs.

Remkes gaat ervan uit dat het onderzoek "eerder binnen weken is afgerond dan binnen een periode van maanden".

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/816335/nederland-gaat-holloway-onderzoek-leiden.html

[caesu]

Remkes: When the request of the Arubaanse Minister (Croes) arrived some weeks ago, I asked myself the question: if we are sending people for indepth investigation, are we then not 'opening up old wounds'? But the consideration that with this investigation done so publically - also to the outside world - to show everything has been done to solve the case, that als has been tried to bring everything to the surface, was the deciding factor.

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/816335/nederland-gaat-holloway-onderzoek-leiden.html

not wanting to open old wounds = not wanting to pull old cows out of the ditch

show to the world that everything is done to solve the case = PR-stunt.

but even beforehand (in the same interview) Remkes said the investigation was likely going to take weeks, not months.

[COLOMBO]

blueprints:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoG9zxQXcuQ&feature=related

[Tamikosmom]

It is beyond my comprehension why so many Monkeys are getting on that Aruban/Dutch roller coaster again ... optimistic that justice for Natalee Holloway is going to come from the Aruban Administration and or ... the Dutch Administration yet ... disregarding the troubling happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking and ... the chain of custody of the contents of that cage/trap.  Kyle Kingman held an official position on board that ship and what he has shared ... regarding his concerns on a private site as well as the Scared Monkey's site ... is for the most part not taken seriously by Monkeys.

As Beth would say ... "Greta ... I think this is huge".

Natalee Holloway's remains could be in the hand of those who have denied her justice from the getgo.

Think about it.

In 2005, Rudy Croes made it known that there was a Jan Vander Sloot/Paulus van der Sloot connection.

In 2006 Rudy Croes requested a Dutch investigation of the Natalee Holloway case under the control of Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes ... a Minister with a Paulus van der Sloot connection.  On January 1, 2003 ... Johan Remkes endorsed the the appointment of Paulus van der Sloot to "deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

The Dutch investigation of 2006 encompassed the search of the van der Sloot residence and ... it encompassed pouring through the Natalee Holloway case file yet ... in over two years since ... there has been no accountability of those involved in the happenings of the morning and ... there has been no accountability of those in the Dutch/Aruban administration who participated in the coverup.

The latest developments are not developments at all.  They are flashbacks to 2005 and 2006.

I suspect that the Aruban/Dutch administrations have two agendas ...

1.  an agenda to create a distraction away from the contents of the trap/cage discovered and turned over unchallenged to the ALE by John Silvetti of the Persistence

2.  an agenda to close the Natalee Holloway case and ... in an attempt to pacify the family ...  a sacrificial lamb has been selected to take the fall.  In other words ... accountability for a compromised investigation will starts and ends with Jan Vander Straaten?

Janet

+++++


JUNE, 2005/AUGUST, 2005

THE PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT CONNECTION

Paulus van der Sloot - NOVA/TWAN HUYS - 06/28/05

Paulus van der Sloot: That gives a feeling of absurdity. It is indeed almost unimaginable that by someone you actually know very well, where you worked together with for a long time, that that one comes to tell you that you are suspected of complicity to murder.

HUYS: Who was that in your case?

VAN DER SLOOT: That was, in this case, that was the leader of the team of police commissioners.

HUYS: Jan van der Straaten.

VAN DER SLOOT: That was Jan van der Straaten, yes.

HUYS: And you know each other very well?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.


Eric Zaandam - President Police Union, Aruban television 8/28/06

Now, information are coming out that Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.


Rudy Croes - Minister of Justice - Top 95 radio 8/28/06

Aruban Minister of Justice Mr. Rudy Croes, in relationship with the Natalee Holloway investigation, revealed a very serious information in direction of Van der Straaten.

Minister Croes revealed that he knows about various telephone calls of Van der Straaten and that he, the minister, knows with whom Van der Straaten was talking to ...


<snipped>

Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!
Natalee’s Freebirds

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg287560;topicseen#msg287560


AUGUST, 2006

August 26, 2006
Aruba wants Dutch police to take over Natalee case

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruban authorities want Dutch police to take over the investigation of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, who vanished on the Caribbean island more than one year ago, a local newspaper reported Friday.  Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes sent a letter last week to Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes and to another Dutch official asking the Dutch police to handle the case, saying little progress had been made, the Solo di Pueblo newspaper reported.

If Dutch police take over the investigation, they will have access to all case files and their own office, according to the newspaper, which didn't cite its source. Remkes will visit the Dutch Caribbean islands, including Aruba, next week, authorities said in the Netherlands.

Telephone calls placed to Croes' office for comment Friday went unanswered.

Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, the last night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Then 18, the native of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a bar with three young men.

Authorities have arrested eight people in connection with her disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210525,00.html
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060826/aruba.shtml