Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[Keepthefaith]

The possible..
The boys walking across the golf course at night..with Natalee

There is Eric's home and There is the Gardner witness when needed to draw everyone away.

Bait and Switch.

Not understanding Edward?

[Klowe]

Magnolia asked:

1998-   Michael Posner bought Grand Holiday Casnio September 1 and named it Excelsior.
He is a member of the GAMBINO MAFIA.

2001 Posner purchases the Brickell Bay Casino

Michael Posner's contributions to Aruba according to the newspaper
Aruba Today

Aruba Today- October 24th 2005
Michael Posner Contributes

There are a few people who in the last 10 years have added remendously to Aruba's product with great success. American businessman Michael Posner saw an opportunity in the mid 90's to purchase the Holiday Inn Casino, although it was run down an d on the brink of bankruptcy. Posner stepped in when the Holiday Inn Casino was in terrible condition with only 33 employees. He made a substantial investment into Aruba's product by renovating this deteriorating casino. Today the Excelsior Casino has
over 140 employees, with all management positi ons filled by Ar ubans, and pays millions of dollars in taxes each year.

Mr. Posner procured Aruba as the site for the World Poker Tournament for
the past 4 years and many years into the future. This has created 20-30 million USD for the economy of Aruba and 5 million yearly in free advertising for Aruba's tourist industry.

Posner also purchased and renovated the old Stauffer Hotel, which was considered at the time to be an eyesore to Palm Beach. He transformed the neglected hotel into the Brickell Bay Beach Club and today has over 100 employees, with all management level employment dedicated to Arubans.
He recently delivered a genuine act of kindness by donating all the rooms for the Texas EquuSearch team to search for Natalee Holloway, at a cost of over 100,000 Posner has been a generous supporter of many charities in Aruba, even going so far as to send a sick Aruban child to Disney World with his mot h er as part of the "Make a wish Foundation".

Aruba also thanks Posner for opening doors to potential new guest by making travel easier. He was directly responsible for bringing United Airlines to Aruba. Untied Airlines provides Aruba with 40,000 tourists and 300,000 hotel rooms annually.
Posner received no payment for his services and was awarded the distinction of "Aruba's Goodwill Ambassador".

Posner's contributions to Aruba's economy have been significant and greatly appreciated by the people. Besides all of humanitarian acts of kindness, he is also greatly appreciated for taking the reigns of failing bus inesses where no one else would and developing them into successful entities.
525 on: March 31, 2008, 07:00:13 PMhttp://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg369659

Bump

But Michael Posner was a convicted felon who had served prison time.
He should not have been allowed on the island, let alone start a business.
Who arranged all of the business dealings.  He also bought the Aloe business.

If it is true that there must be an Aruban partner to own a business on aruba, I'm thinking both CAPS and Kermit have been pointing us in that direction. Could paulass be the silent partner or in his role with contracts did he set it up for posner? If so, that could explain why pvds/jvds are so protected jmoo

Hi Bill and other Monkeys,
I was thinking it is possible to be Paulus also, which would explain a lot of what we considered strange happenings from the beginning, such as Joran being in the casinos gambling and drinking since he was what, age 14 or 15?   This could explain how Paulus and Joran seem to be treated as VIP at the casino, and maybe where alot of their cash flow comes from, and why it seems it is so difficult to see the clear videos of Paulus from when we think he was chatting with Natalee at the blackjack table.  Just something to ponder on and MOO of course.

Klowe

[Blonde]

What did it matter if Eduardo Mansur was on the dive?
Wet suits do not have pockets.
What he saw could only come into play if the case were
brought to trial.
All of the human remains found were turned over to ALE.

Divers Search Aruba Coast For Teen
Volunteers Hope To Find Clues About Natalee Holloway's Disappearance


ORANJESTAD, Aruba, Aug. 28, 2005



It has been almost three months since Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba. Celebrities have pitched in for an auction to benefit her family and help cover expenses in Aruba. Kelly Cobiella reports. | Share/Embed



Paradise Lost

Star student Natalee Holloway disappears during a senior trip to Aruba.


(CBS/AP) Volunteer divers explored waters off Aruba's east coast Sunday, hoping to find clues in the disappearance of missing U.S. teen Natalee Holloway.

At least eight divers volunteered to search waters about one mile from a beach near the Holiday Inn where Holloway stayed during a vacation to celebrate her high school graduation, said Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation.

Although the waters have been searched before, the group claims a radar machine invented by an American has detected human bones in the area. The inventor, Joe Walker, came to Aruba to help in the search but is currently off the island, Mansur said.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:EsW0Yqa9CdAJ:www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/28/world/main798799.shtml+Eduardo+Mansur,+co-founder+of+the+Aruba+Search+and+Rescue+Foundation.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

[Edward]

There are many possibles in this case..
The Gardner witness.. for one
Was he a witness or a decoy ?


The beauty in a good con..
What a true con admires the most is when they leave everyone guessing with no way to prove one way or the other.

[Keepthefaith]

There are many possibles in this case..
The Gardner witness.. for one
Was he a witness or a decoy ?


The beauty in a good con..
What a true con admires the most is when they leave everyone guessing with no way to prove one way or the other.

Sounds like the foundation of the Judicial system in Aruba..

[Edward]

I sad Edmund in my prior post and I meant Eduardo.

[WhiskeyGirl]

This has puzzled me, also.  Jossy is opposed to the current political party and would love nothing more than to see them all out of office.  I can only imagine that Eduardo Mansur was involved because he is the founder and head of Aruba Search and Rescue, the specialzed diving group.  I do have to assume that Eduardo did inform his father of what had taken place.

So is everyone just watching the Teepee's fall so to speak?Is that what is currently taking place politically?

 

I pray that this is the house of cards that Art Wood ... family private investigation ... was alluding to.

Janet
________

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

WOOD: ... The reason this case could still be solved is because there are so many people involved in Natalee's disappearance and in the disposal of her body. When somebody talks, they're going to all go down. This is like a house of cards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

Cards?  Which cards?  Money laundering cards?

I've been wondering lately about two things involving site meters and this case.  For some reason, the Hague and Chicago have been hot seats of site meter activity regarding this case.

A few others and myself have wondered "why" on numerous occasions.

Is it possible that the casinos are hotbeds of moneylaundering activity?  Maybe people go to Aruba to lose money, and the money is routed to bank accounts intentionally? 

Would that explain why so many Aruban/Dutch friends of JVDS and PVDS were at the casino the night Natalee went missing?  Would that explain why so many appear in the statements of Joran?  A good ole boy network of some sort?

Some have wondered if losing at the casino WAS Joran's employment.

There was also a recent story from the news about Chicago, Aruba, and Posner -

So I phoned the Excelsior Casino in Aruba, where Jimmy takes politicians to gamble, including Illinois Secretary of State Jesse White. I figured Jimmy might be there.

"Who's calling please?" asked a secretary in the office of Michael Posner, the casino boss who has Chicago connections.

Tell him John from Chicago is calling, I said. Posner picked up and was quite chirpy, for about three seconds, until he realized I was a newspaper guy.

"If you want to find him, call him yourself," Posner said. Click.

Later, Jimmy's attorney phoned, upset that I'd called all over looking for him. She told me that Jimmy had nothing to do with any deal for Rahm's seat or Obama's seat.

"The answer is no," said Jimmy's attorney. "No."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-12-dec12,0,723256.column

How often do people go to Aruba to gamble?  How exactly do these casinos work?  Moneylaundring?

jmho

[WhiskeyGirl]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

[Tamikosmom]

I would love to be wrong about Jossy.

Wreck

I would sincerely appreciate what you backup is that causes you doubt Jossy Mansur.  What has he said or done to negate what he has said and done in the past to support the family's contention that a corrupt investigation has denied their beloved Natalee justice.

Thank you.

Janet

Why do I doubt Jossy? Circumstantial reasons for the most part.
1) Extremely influential family on Aruba -- family has been in the past (and currently) known to be involved with organized crime.
2) Runs the newspaper on the island (he can shape the news and opinions on the island - yet nearly 100% of the locals still believe it was a conspiracy by Beth)
3) He is more concerned about who is in power in Aruban government than solving the crime (though possibly solving the crime he can make the current government look bad - I think this is his sole motivation)
4) Periodically promises big "expose`s" and never delivers
5) The "gardner" witness (his employee?)
6) His son on the Dive team  at the Persistence
7) the whole "tennis shoe" found near the lighthouse
I just see so many "diversions" coming from him -- is he also now involved with the pond search? The 2 new witnesses?? Is he really partnering with Silvetti?

Thanks Wreck.

1.  Family?  As I stated in a previous post ... family members are individuals.  I am sure some family members outside the immediate family may love me unconditionally but ... would not want my religious affliliations to be a reflection on philosophical afflilications.

My question ... "Is there any backup support that implies that JOSSY MANSUR has been involved in organize crime.

My next question would be ... "Whether or not Jossy has been involved in organization crime ... what has that got to do with his staunch support that a corrupt investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice?"

Most of my relatives of faith and my relatives that do not embrace a faith are on the same from a political perspective.


2.  I do believe that the locals have a vested interest in the economy of Aruba which implies their government cannot be perceived as being corrupt.

Think about it Oduber attempted to bring about an Aruban boycott of Jossy publication.  The reason.  Jossy's perspective in the Dairio regarding a corrupt Natalee Holloway investigation was giving Aruba a bad name abroad ... causing tourism industry to decline.


3.  Later ...


Wreck ... thanks again for your response and ... I mean it.

Janet
   

[Edward]

There are many possibles in this case..
The Gardner witness.. for one
Was he a witness or a decoy ?


The beauty in a good con..
What a true con admires the most is when they leave everyone guessing with no way to prove one way or the other.

Sounds like the foundation of the Judicial system in Aruba..

It really does !! lol 

[wreck]

I would love to be wrong about Jossy.

Wreck

I would sincerely appreciate what you backup is that causes you doubt Jossy Mansur.  What has he said or done to negate what he has said and done in the past to support the family's contention that a corrupt investigation has denied their beloved Natalee justice.

Thank you.

Janet

Why do I doubt Jossy? Circumstantial reasons for the most part.
1) Extremely influential family on Aruba -- family has been in the past (and currently) known to be involved with organized crime.
2) Runs the newspaper on the island (he can shape the news and opinions on the island - yet nearly 100% of the locals still believe it was a conspiracy by Beth)
3) He is more concerned about who is in power in Aruban government than solving the crime (though possibly solving the crime he can make the current government look bad - I think this is his sole motivation)
4) Periodically promises big "expose`s" and never delivers
5) The "gardner" witness (his employee?)
6) His son on the Dive team  at the Persistence
7) the whole "tennis shoe" found near the lighthouse
I just see so many "diversions" coming from him -- is he also now involved with the pond search? The 2 new witnesses?? Is he really partnering with Silvetti?

Thanks Wreck.

1.  Family?  As I stated in a previous post ... family members are individuals.  I am sure some family members outside the immediate family may love me unconditionally but ... would not want my religious affliliations to be a reflection on philosophical afflilications.

My question ... "Is there any backup support that implies that JOSSY MANSUR has been involved in organize crime.

My next question would be ... "Whether or not Jossy has been involved in organization crime ... what has that got to do with his staunch support that a corrupt investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice?"

Most of my relatives of faith and my relatives that do not embrace a faith are on the same from a political perspective.


2.  I do believe that the locals have a vested interest in the economy of Aruba which implies their government cannot be perceived as being corrupt.

Think about it Oduber attempted to bring about an Aruban boycott of Jossy publication.  The reason.  Jossy's perspective in the Dairio regarding a corrupt Natalee Holloway investigation was giving Aruba a bad name abroad ... causing tourism industry to decline.


3.  Later ...


Wreck ... thanks again for your response and ... I mean it.

Janet
   

Janet,
I do respect your opinion as well! Like I said, -- I hope Im wrong. I having nothing concrete about Jossy at all -- I just think he has had the tools and means to solve this for over 3+ years and here we sit with a big goose egg.

[Tamikosmom]

Jossy says that the search warrant was changed on the premises and instead of searching the whole house, they limited the search to Joran's apartment. Jossy doesn't know who the judge was on site, but that Ben was at the gate of the VDS residence when the posse arrived. Jossy not sure why he was there, but thinks it's strange because Ben is an employee of the prosecution. Ben had no business being there unless he was a very close friend.

 Jossy agrees with O'Reilly, because if they wanted to solve the case the gov't would have put pressure on the cops. Dompig told Jossy that the three suspects admitted "that they did have have sex with this girl" when she was going in and out of consciousess. This is a fact. This has been confirmed to Jossy. I have a video of Dompig confirming this fact. There also have sufficient evidence to prosecute the suspects on the basis of kidnapping and rape. Why they didn't prosecute is a mystery to Jossy.

The three suspects made a court appearance to change their status. Judge Smid originally refused that petition. Now they are trying again based on the passage of time and that the prosecution hasn't brought any case against them. They are expecting the ruling to come down by next week.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:PNp_ccmtN_cJ:ftp.hometown.aol.com/worldjournier/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline2006_12.html+Dompig+says+on+the+tape+that+he+has+enough+evidence+to+charge+J2K+with+kidnapping+and+rape,+which+would+get+them+8+years+in+prison.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

Thank you Blonde.  I had forgotten about Jossy's perspective on the van der Sloot property/residence search warrant charade.

Janet

++++++++++

http://noevidenceofacrime.com/chapter5.php/2008/07/17/title_262

[Tamikosmom]

I would love to be wrong about Jossy.

Wreck

I would sincerely appreciate what you backup is that causes you doubt Jossy Mansur.  What has he said or done to negate what he has said and done in the past to support the family's contention that a corrupt investigation has denied their beloved Natalee justice.

Thank you.

Janet

Why do I doubt Jossy? Circumstantial reasons for the most part.
1) Extremely influential family on Aruba -- family has been in the past (and currently) known to be involved with organized crime.
2) Runs the newspaper on the island (he can shape the news and opinions on the island - yet nearly 100% of the locals still believe it was a conspiracy by Beth)
3) He is more concerned about who is in power in Aruban government than solving the crime (though possibly solving the crime he can make the current government look bad - I think this is his sole motivation)
4) Periodically promises big "expose`s" and never delivers
5) The "gardner" witness (his employee?)
6) His son on the Dive team  at the Persistence
7) the whole "tennis shoe" found near the lighthouse
I just see so many "diversions" coming from him -- is he also now involved with the pond search? The 2 new witnesses?? Is he really partnering with Silvetti?

Thanks Wreck.

1.  Family?  As I stated in a previous post ... family members are individuals.  I am sure some family members outside the immediate family may love me unconditionally but ... would not want my religious affliliations to be a reflection on philosophical afflilications.

My question ... "Is there any backup support that implies that JOSSY MANSUR has been involved in organize crime.

My next question would be ... "Whether or not Jossy has been involved in organization crime ... what has that got to do with his staunch support that a corrupt investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice?"

Most of my relatives of faith and my relatives that do not embrace a faith are on the same from a political perspective.


2.  I do believe that the locals have a vested interest in the economy of Aruba which implies their government cannot be perceived as being corrupt.

Think about it Oduber attempted to bring about an Aruban boycott of Jossy publication.  The reason.  Jossy's perspective in the Dairio regarding a corrupt Natalee Holloway investigation was giving Aruba a bad name abroad ... causing tourism industry to decline.


3.  Later ...


Wreck ... thanks again for your response and ... I mean it.

Janet
   

Janet,
I do respect your opinion as well! Like I said, -- I hope Im wrong. I having nothing concrete about Jossy at all -- I just think he has had the tools and means to solve this for over 3+ years and here we sit with a big goose egg.

wreck ... you and I go back a long way.  We may have different perspectives regarding some aspects of the case ... regarding some of players but ... I have no doubt that justice for Natalee Holloway in the foundation of all your speculations.

Janet

[WhiskeyGirl]

More than 140 WA welfare recipients have ``washed'' almost $17 million through the casino, most of it for international gangs.

An Australia-wide operation snared 2240 people who laundered almost $376 million in 18 months to November last year.

An earlier operation netted 319 people across Australia and brought the amount of laundered money to $500 million.

The money laundering scam is known as a ``buy-in'', with pensioners -- many of them family members or friends recruited by gang leaders -- using dirty money to buy casino chips.

They may gamble, if the money's ``owner'' is prepared to lose some, before cashing the chips for ``clean'' money.

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,27574,24795221-2761,00.html

I wonder what the "who's who" of passengers at the new private Aruba airport looks like?  The one with some kind of special immigration/inspection procedure?  How many have famous relatives?  Bosses?

Who travels to the new private Aruba airport?

I wonder how many of them stay at properties with casinos?  How many come to "gamble"?

How much do they leave behind?  Cash in?  Visit banks?

[Mary Ann]

As far as casino's in Aruba....they are a far cry from Las Vegas. They are very small, have outdated slot machines and not too many tables and do not have a reputation for being loose. Gambling in Aruba is disappointing.

[truthseeker2]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

Aruban Connections

Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.

The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.

The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.

One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. But there is no proof, no one ever looked really into the relations of the bank with the Sicilian mafiosi. The letter of credit was issued before the mafia connections of the clan became officially known on the island. This did not stop the bank from keeping the Cuntreras as clients. During Operation Wiseguy the undercover DEA agents were asked to wire money for a shipment of hashish on the account of Alfonso Cuntrera at the Interbank.

The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team – Aruba's national sport – the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". "When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government,"says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, "their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money”."Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering "has become a political tool to discredit them”." (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family's mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias 'Don' Mansur is the family's whizz-kid. Elias graduated at Notre Dame University, and was Minister of Economic Affairs in Eman's first cabinet. As representative for the Free Trade Zone entrepreneurs in a mixed Dutch-Aruban commission he has to recommend measures to tighten regulations in the FTZ to prevent money laundering and contraband, together with Dutch government officials. (76)

More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77) President Clinton specifically mentioned the Mansur's when he put Aruba on the list of Major Illicit Drug-transit Countries in December 1996. Although no member of the family was actually indicted in the La Costa case, the name Mansur is frequently is found in the files which were seized at Habibe's home on Aruba.

In Venezuela the Mansurs are implicated in money laundering with Santa Lopesierra, the Marlboro Man. Every month Santa 're-invests' 20 million dollar "with the help of a well-known entrepreneur called Mansur”." (78) Lopesierra is accused to have financed his election with the proceeds of drug trafficking and a car-theft ring. He is also reputed to be the man behind the Puerto Rico indictment. The activities of Mansur and Lopesierra, however, go well beyond this. They are accused of illegally funding the presidential campaign of Colombian president Ernesto Samper in 1994. Not only did Samper allegedly receive 6 million dollars from the Cali Cartel – an accusation he vehemently denies and ascribes to political machinations – it is said he also pocketed US$ 500,000 in cash offered by "a group from Philip Morris and Interbank”." (79)

The 'Philip Morris people' are Alex and Eric Mansur and a member of the Lopesierra Family (Santa Lopesierra belongs to the Samper faction in the Liberal Party). Samper tried to ease out of meeting the group, the story goes. He suggested that one of his campaign officials should pick up the cash and bring them to the office later for coffee. "No one gives that kind of money just for coffee. That's worth at least a breakfast," the campaign official replied.

The Mansur Family seems to have all the right connections in its corner of the Caribbean. Some Mansur's still have Venezuelan nationality, and they have interests in Maracaibo and Caracas, as well as in Punto Fijo and Coro, where the originally Lebanese Mansur Family had settled before moving to Aruba. Punto Fijo is situated on the Paraguaná peninsula in the North at the Golfo de Venezuela, which separates it from La Guajira. A ferry connects Punto Fijo to Aruba. Some 20 years ago, in 1974, a few Sicilians set up a fishing company in Punto Fijo called "Mediterranea Pesca". Among the shareholders: Leonardo and Giuseppe Caruana and Giuseppe Cuffaro. The company owned a sea-going vessel and Italian police suspected that "in view of the background of the owners it is probably a cover for drug trafficking”." (80)

Maybe the Mansurs and the Cuntrera-Caruana clan first met each other in this remote part of the world. Nobody knows. (81) But they certainly have met on Aruba, according to several insiders and law enforcement officers. Venezuelan police-officer Guillermo Jiménez states: "I know they are connected. I have sent files about bank transactions between the Mansur's and the Cuntrera's to Aruba. But documents about the Mansur's are kept secret over there." DEA-officer David Lorino is equally convinced and has connected the Cuntreras with Ruben Mansur. In his judgement, "Ruben Mansur is a major-league dope-peddler”." The DEA has the toll-records of the Cuntrera phones in Caracas. "They phoned Mansur's trading company and his place. They certainly talked to each other." What they said, Lorino doesn't know, since it is not permitted to tap phones in Venezuela.

[WhiskeyGirl]

JVDS and his continued fascination with on-line gambling.  Is this possibly a job?

We agreed the double-whammy of two national news outlets presenting on-line poker players as fraud victims strengthens the position of those who want to legalize online gambling ... and tax it. The heart of the Washington Post story was that poker players were cheated out of more than $20 million over four years through scams uncovered at AbsolutePoker.com and UltimateBet.com, two online poker sites. The Washington Post's two-part report ran Nov. 30 and Dec. 1 in the Review-Journal, and the "60 Minutes" segment aired Nov. 30.

Maybe the various global governments will keep track of all the losers?  How much?  Where they get that money to lose?  Who owns these online places?

There are legitimate concerns not just about cheating, but about underage gambling, compulsive gambling and the potential for money laundering and organized crime influence if online poker is legalized....The sympathetic approach of the Washington Post and "60 Minutes" makes it seem like it's practically the government's job to protect poker players.

Someone may have taken advantage of JVDS.  I wonder if he got any money back?  Where would they send it?

http://**/news/35699879.html

Could online sites be used to launder money?  All those poker tournaments in Aruba?

Maybe online/casino gambling and moneylaundering has some things in common with the porn industry?  Hard to track to a location?  Harder to enforce due to all the cross-border issues?  Hard to follow the paper trail?

jmho

[COLOMBO]

JVDS and his continued fascination with on-line gambling.  Is this possibly a job?

We agreed the double-whammy of two national news outlets presenting on-line poker players as fraud victims strengthens the position of those who want to legalize online gambling ... and tax it. The heart of the Washington Post story was that poker players were cheated out of more than $20 million over four years through scams uncovered at AbsolutePoker.com and UltimateBet.com, two online poker sites. The Washington Post's two-part report ran Nov. 30 and Dec. 1 in the Review-Journal, and the "60 Minutes" segment aired Nov. 30.

Maybe the various global governments will keep track of all the losers?  How much?  Where they get that money to lose?  Who owns these online places?

There are legitimate concerns not just about cheating, but about underage gambling, compulsive gambling and the potential for money laundering and organized crime influence if online poker is legalized....The sympathetic approach of the Washington Post and "60 Minutes" makes it seem like it's practically the government's job to protect poker players.

Someone may have taken advantage of JVDS.  I wonder if he got any money back?  Where would they send it?

http://**/news/35699879.html

Could online sites be used to launder money?  All those poker tournaments in Aruba?

Maybe online/casino gambling and moneylaundering has some things in common with the porn industry?  Hard to track to a location?  Harder to enforce due to all the cross-border issues?  Hard to follow the paper trail?

jmho

a compensation perhaps

[WhiskeyGirl]

Online poker players pay for their bets in a variety of ways, including prepaid debit cards, electronic transfers and bank wires.

wow

One of the first such cases was brought against Jay Cohen, 27, a former options trader who in 1996 opened an online sports book in Antigua called World Sports Exchange. Within a year, the Web site was receiving thousands of bets from U.S. customers. Cohen and a partner were prominently featured in a Wall Street Journal article.

But by May 1997, the story had soured. That month, Cohen received a letter from the law firm Debevoise & Plimpton, which was representing the NFL and other professional sports leagues, threatening him with a lawsuit if he didn't remove links to the leagues' Web sites and stop accepting bets from U.S. customers, according to an account Cohen published online in 2002.

Cohen was indicted the following year. "Criminals cannot avoid responsibility for federal crimes by seeking refuge in offshore locations," then-U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White said at the time.

Cohen was convinced that the Wire Act didn't apply to the Internet, and he returned to the United States to fight the charges. He was convicted and sentenced to 21 months in a federal prison camp located in the shadows of the Las Vegas Strip and its multibillion-dollar casinos.

Any relation to the Aruba Cohen's?  Small world?  Common name?

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/316590

[Edward]

You have to establish in this particular family who owns what and who controls what..

For instance Luis Mansur is listed as assistant editor on the DARIO !!!
Yet he gets arrested for major things..
He Shoots a gun at police and has major amounts of cocaine money and weapons in his possession in his home !! The judge in his case claimed he has hurt others..
His partners call him the Boss
And he is Josy's brother. He acts out as being above the law.. That is a pattern of behavior.
That type of pattern that hurts others.

But he is just a family member like some lost cousin ?