Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[MumInOhio]

There are many possibles in this case..
The Gardner witness.. for one
Was he a witness or a decoy ?


The beauty in a good con..
What a true con admires the most is when they leave everyone guessing with no way to prove one way or the other.

Edward...

This is the link to Johan's post, there is more info there...Vanity Fair, IIRC January 2006...no link to the article...

Warning...Spin Machine in Action...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2951.msg392413#msg392413

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2008, 10:05:18 AM »Johan

Wood began chatting up photographers, stringers, and reporters. The most intriguing lead, he decided, was a rumor that one of the Kalpoe brothers had confessed to killing Natalee—sort of—to a fellow prisoner while in the Aruban jail. The prisoner had heard that a relative's gardener, named Cumpa, had seen Joran and the Kalpoes burying Natalee's body in a vacant lot near the Marriott. When the Kalpoe brother was told the story, he supposedly went ashen and flipped over the dominoes they were playing with. Wood spent most of July tracking the elusive Cumpa. There were stories that he had fled to Venezuela, that he had disappeared, that he might have been killed.

The Mansur "investigative team," including Wood, Eduardo Mansur, and other Mansur employees and family friends, began holding nightly strategy sessions at the team's de facto headquarters: Hooters. One night they were inside poring over rumors when a Mansur cousin's teenage son suddenly blurted out, "I know Cumpa! He's my uncle's gardener!"

The boy hopped in Eduardo Mansur's truck and led Wood to a large seaside home owned by Jossy Mansur's cousin Eric Mansur, a wealthy importer. Wood found Cumpa, whose name turned out to be Carlos, in the yard. "He tells me that on that night, May 30, he couldn't sleep," Wood recalls. "It was 2:30 and it was so hot—he didn't have air-conditioning—he said, 'I got up, I told my wife I'm going to my boss's house,'" which was air-conditioned.

According to Carlos, while driving to Eric Mansur's home a little before three that morning, he took a shortcut, a dirt road through a vacant lot beside the Marriott. To his surprise, he found a car blocking the road. Beside the car were two large mounds of dirt. When he peered into the car, Carlos said, he recognized Joran and the Kalpoes. He said they covered their faces. He then drove on.

Carlos reluctantly climbed into Wood's truck and allowed himself to be driven to police headquarters. He disappeared inside for four hours.

Three days later, a crowd of reporters gathered in the vacant lot by the Marriott to watch the police begin draining a pond near where the gardener, as he came to be known, claimed he had seen Joran and the Kalpoes digging. The effort quickly degenerated into farce. The first pumper truck, reportedly supplied by the Mansur family, bogged down and died. Then reporters, trying to get a better view of the pond, twice broke a water main. When the pond was empty, police found nothing at the bottom but trash. Gerold Dompig ended up discounting everything the gardener had said. "The gardener['s story]," he says, "was a concoction."

[texasmom]

http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-record.html

Wednesday, April 11, 2007

For The Record:

Mike: Jossy, I received an email this morning asking me about something they thought they heard in a television interview. It has to do with you having Joran Van Der Sloot followed, before the Holloway incident. Do you have any memory of such a thing?

Jossy: That question is way off base since I never had Joran followed by anyone! I never mentioned anything of the sort in any interview. People many times give reign to their imaginations and come up with unbelievable theories and ideas that do not conform to the reality. My loyalties to Aruba are unquestionable, but my loyalty with the truth has priority over everything else. I do not have any agendas, hidden or public; I just do my job as Director of the DIARIO.

Mike: There has been misinformation floating around on the internet for a long time about your background. Would you mind giving us a brief biographical sketch?

Jossy: I was born in Aruba in 1934. My father came from Venezuela in the year 1901, together with my grandfather, who emigrated from Lebanon to Venezuela in or around 1894. The exact date has not been established. They came to Aruba hidden in a fruit boat, to put as much distance as possible between themselves and the political persecutions that were going on at that time. (I believe Cipriano Castro was then in power).

I was born in Aruba and attended school at St. Dominicus College, where I finished the sixth grade. I then went to Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, when I was 14, to attend high school at St. Stanislaus, of the Sacred Heart Brothers, where I graduated in 1951. I then went on to Mobile Alabama, to attend college at Spring Hill College, of the Jesuit order. I graduated in 1954. I came back to Aruba and then traveled to Venezuela to find employment. I was hired by the Mobile Oil Company and stayed with them for 9 years as Safety Supervisor. I worked for the company in Barinas, Anaco and Puerto Cabello. In 1967 I came back to Aruba and remained here until now.

When in Venezuela I used to contribute many articles (of a literary nature) to El Universal, and published quite a lot of material (short stories, essays, etc.) in the best magazines of the country (Bohemia, Elite, etc.)

I started to write for a paper called Nobo, published in Curacao, then started my own section of a paper (EXTRA) with a friend from Curacao. Then I decided to start DIARIO more than 25 years ago, and was able to make it the largest (by far!) of the papers circulating in Aruba. Today it has over 89% of the market exclusively.

I started to publish books in Papiamento, English and Spanish, and have so far published 56 of them, including 4 dictionaries, 4 novels published in Cali, Colombia, the History of Aruba, and other fiction and non-fiction books. I am considered to be the most prolific writer in the history of the Netherlands Antilles, not only because of the quantities published, but also because of the quality.

That, my friend, is a brief summary of my schooling and literary activities.

Mike: Thank You Jossy!

Posted by EasyWriter at 11:07 AM   

[Edward]

Thank You there was actually a news report about Josy and Eduardo headed over to Eric's home without all the added grease.. Which is not good for our health.
 

[WhiskeyGirl]

More than $800 billion was wagered at approximately 845 casinos and card clubs in the United States in 2003, accounting for approximately 85 percent of the total amount of money wagered for all legal gaming activities throughout the country.¹³¹ In addition to gaming, casinos offer their largely transient customer base a broad array of financial services, such as deposit and credit accounts, funds transfers, check cashing, and currency exchange services, that are similar to those offered by depository institutions and other types of financial institutions. As high-volume cash businesses, casinos are susceptible to money laundering as well as many other financial crimes and were the first non-bank financial institutions required to develop AML compliance programs.¹³²

Law enforcement and media reports indicate that criminals typically launder money through casinos by exchanging illicit cash for casino chips and then either:

-Holding the chips for a period of time and later cashing them in for a casino check or having the  casino wire the money elsewhere;
-Using the chips as currency to purchase narcotics, with the drug dealer later cashing in the chips; or,
-Using the chips to gamble in hopes of generating certifiable winnings.

Criminals also use casinos to launder counterfeit money as well as large currency notes that would be conspicuous and difficult to use elsewhere, and which may be marked by undercover law enforcement officers. Suspicious activities at casinos often involve customers structuring transactions to avoid recordkeeping or reporting thresholds, using agents to cash-out multiple transactions for an anonymous individual, providing false documents or identifying information, or layering transactions to disguise their source.

Pizza money? 

http://www.standupca.org/Reports/Tribal_Casinos_from_NMLS.PDF

I wonder what business is like in Aruba?  What services Aruban casinos offer? 

jmho

[MumInOhio]

Thanks for finding that TM...

Edward...any idea where to find that...TIA

Anyone know which Arends Family Mariane Croes married into...TIA

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2008, 10:26:14 AM » klaasend

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take-over purchase Valero fixed
21 Jun, 2008, 17:14 (GMT -04:00)

 Email dit artikel 
 Print dit artikel 
 
ORANJESTAD – The take-over purchase of the Valero-refinery in Aruba by the Brazilian national oil-company Petrobras is fixed. Amigoe learned this from well-informed sources. Management received confirmation via mail from director Raymond Buckley that the refinery in San Nicolas is sold and that the closing took place on Friday. None of the two parties have officially confirmed the sale yet. Spokesperson Mariaine Arends-Croes of Valero Aruba said on Friday that the above are just rumours. However, a member of management confirmed that the mail with the information was circulated. Amigoe doesn’t know whether Petrobras has indeed paid the earlier mentioned amount of 2.8 milliard dollars for the refinery. The negotiations on the take-over purchase were stopped at the beginning of this year, after a vacuum-unit of the refinery was seriously damaged by fire. Petrobras indicated that they want to await the reparation(s) first, before they continue talking about the take-over. The unit was put into operation again early this month and the negotiations were resumed.
 
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43660.php

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2951.msg392413

[Edward]

History of Venezuela
http://history.howstuffworks.com/south-american-history/history-of-venezuela.htm

[Keepthefaith]

Thanks for finding that TM...

Edward...any idea where to find that...TIA

Anyone know which Arends Family Mariane Croes married into...TIA

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2008, 10:26:14 AM » klaasend

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take-over purchase Valero fixed
21 Jun, 2008, 17:14 (GMT -04:00)

 Email dit artikel 
 Print dit artikel 
 
ORANJESTAD – The take-over purchase of the Valero-refinery in Aruba by the Brazilian national oil-company Petrobras is fixed. Amigoe learned this from well-informed sources. Management received confirmation via mail from director Raymond Buckley that the refinery in San Nicolas is sold and that the closing took place on Friday. None of the two parties have officially confirmed the sale yet. Spokesperson Mariaine Arends-Croes of Valero Aruba said on Friday that the above are just rumours. However, a member of management confirmed that the mail with the information was circulated. Amigoe doesn’t know whether Petrobras has indeed paid the earlier mentioned amount of 2.8 milliard dollars for the refinery. The negotiations on the take-over purchase were stopped at the beginning of this year, after a vacuum-unit of the refinery was seriously damaged by fire. Petrobras indicated that they want to await the reparation(s) first, before they continue talking about the take-over. The unit was put into operation again early this month and the negotiations were resumed.
 
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43660.php

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2951.msg392413

Wonder who owns the refinery???

[Edward]

Mum I prolly have it in my notes..
If I come across it, I will post it for refrence.
 

[Edward]

Thank You so much for that Texasmom..
It was the missing research link for me, I have never read Josy account for his family or the hidden in a fruit boat journey.
I love South American politics.. turn of the century in south America..wow

[MumInOhio]

Mum I prolly have it in my notes..
If I come across it, I will post it for refrence.
 

Thanks...appreciate it Edward. I wonder if she took over as spokesperson for Frank Croes?

[Tamikosmom]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

Aruban Connections

Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.

The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.

The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.

One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. But there is no proof, no one ever looked really into the relations of the bank with the Sicilian mafiosi. The letter of credit was issued before the mafia connections of the clan became officially known on the island. This did not stop the bank from keeping the Cuntreras as clients. During Operation Wiseguy the undercover DEA agents were asked to wire money for a shipment of hashish on the account of Alfonso Cuntrera at the Interbank.

The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team – Aruba's national sport – the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". "When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government,"says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, "their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money”."Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering "has become a political tool to discredit them”." (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family's mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias 'Don' Mansur is the family's whizz-kid. Elias graduated at Notre Dame University, and was Minister of Economic Affairs in Eman's first cabinet. As representative for the Free Trade Zone entrepreneurs in a mixed Dutch-Aruban commission he has to recommend measures to tighten regulations in the FTZ to prevent money laundering and contraband, together with Dutch government officials. (76)

More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77) President Clinton specifically mentioned the Mansur's when he put Aruba on the list of Major Illicit Drug-transit Countries in December 1996. Although no member of the family was actually indicted in the La Costa case, the name Mansur is frequently is found in the files which were seized at Habibe's home on Aruba.

In Venezuela the Mansurs are implicated in money laundering with Santa Lopesierra, the Marlboro Man. Every month Santa 're-invests' 20 million dollar "with the help of a well-known entrepreneur called Mansur”." (78) Lopesierra is accused to have financed his election with the proceeds of drug trafficking and a car-theft ring. He is also reputed to be the man behind the Puerto Rico indictment. The activities of Mansur and Lopesierra, however, go well beyond this. They are accused of illegally funding the presidential campaign of Colombian president Ernesto Samper in 1994. Not only did Samper allegedly receive 6 million dollars from the Cali Cartel – an accusation he vehemently denies and ascribes to political machinations – it is said he also pocketed US$ 500,000 in cash offered by "a group from Philip Morris and Interbank”." (79)

The 'Philip Morris people' are Alex and Eric Mansur and a member of the Lopesierra Family (Santa Lopesierra belongs to the Samper faction in the Liberal Party). Samper tried to ease out of meeting the group, the story goes. He suggested that one of his campaign officials should pick up the cash and bring them to the office later for coffee. "No one gives that kind of money just for coffee. That's worth at least a breakfast," the campaign official replied.

The Mansur Family seems to have all the right connections in its corner of the Caribbean. Some Mansur's still have Venezuelan nationality, and they have interests in Maracaibo and Caracas, as well as in Punto Fijo and Coro, where the originally Lebanese Mansur Family had settled before moving to Aruba. Punto Fijo is situated on the Paraguaná peninsula in the North at the Golfo de Venezuela, which separates it from La Guajira. A ferry connects Punto Fijo to Aruba. Some 20 years ago, in 1974, a few Sicilians set up a fishing company in Punto Fijo called "Mediterranea Pesca". Among the shareholders: Leonardo and Giuseppe Caruana and Giuseppe Cuffaro. The company owned a sea-going vessel and Italian police suspected that "in view of the background of the owners it is probably a cover for drug trafficking”." (80)

Maybe the Mansurs and the Cuntrera-Caruana clan first met each other in this remote part of the world. Nobody knows. (81) But they certainly have met on Aruba, according to several insiders and law enforcement officers. Venezuelan police-officer Guillermo Jiménez states: "I know they are connected. I have sent files about bank transactions between the Mansur's and the Cuntrera's to Aruba. But documents about the Mansur's are kept secret over there." DEA-officer David Lorino is equally convinced and has connected the Cuntreras with Ruben Mansur. In his judgement, "Ruben Mansur is a major-league dope-peddler”." The DEA has the toll-records of the Cuntrera phones in Caracas. "They phoned Mansur's trading company and his place. They certainly talked to each other." What they said, Lorino doesn't know, since it is not permitted to tap phones in Venezuela.

Thank you truthseeker2.  I read through the ENTIRE research paper compiled by Tom Blickman.  A "short summary" would not have suffice.

Any concrete evidence against the person of JOSSY MANSURE would have resulted in an indictment.  Considering there has NEVER been an indictment against this man who has supported the contention of Natalee Holloway's family since the getgo that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevailing ...

Janet

++++++++


The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman - TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997

More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77)
______

(77) United States of America v. Juan Manuel Jinete Vargas et al., for the District of Puerto Rico, by US Attorney Guillermo Gil, Case nr. 94-230, 10 August 1994.

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba

[Tamikosmom]

http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-record.html

Wednesday, April 11, 2007

For The Record:

Mike: Jossy, I received an email this morning asking me about something they thought they heard in a television interview. It has to do with you having Joran Van Der Sloot followed, before the Holloway incident. Do you have any memory of such a thing?

Jossy: That question is way off base since I never had Joran followed by anyone! I never mentioned anything of the sort in any interview. People many times give reign to their imaginations and come up with unbelievable theories and ideas that do not conform to the reality. My loyalties to Aruba are unquestionable, but my loyalty with the truth has priority over everything else. I do not have any agendas, hidden or public; I just do my job as Director of the DIARIO.

Mike: There has been misinformation floating around on the internet for a long time about your background. Would you mind giving us a brief biographical sketch?

Jossy: I was born in Aruba in 1934. My father came from Venezuela in the year 1901, together with my grandfather, who emigrated from Lebanon to Venezuela in or around 1894. The exact date has not been established. They came to Aruba hidden in a fruit boat, to put as much distance as possible between themselves and the political persecutions that were going on at that time. (I believe Cipriano Castro was then in power).

I was born in Aruba and attended school at St. Dominicus College, where I finished the sixth grade. I then went to Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, when I was 14, to attend high school at St. Stanislaus, of the Sacred Heart Brothers, where I graduated in 1951. I then went on to Mobile Alabama, to attend college at Spring Hill College, of the Jesuit order. I graduated in 1954. I came back to Aruba and then traveled to Venezuela to find employment. I was hired by the Mobile Oil Company and stayed with them for 9 years as Safety Supervisor. I worked for the company in Barinas, Anaco and Puerto Cabello. In 1967 I came back to Aruba and remained here until now.

When in Venezuela I used to contribute many articles (of a literary nature) to El Universal, and published quite a lot of material (short stories, essays, etc.) in the best magazines of the country (Bohemia, Elite, etc.)

I started to write for a paper called Nobo, published in Curacao, then started my own section of a paper (EXTRA) with a friend from Curacao. Then I decided to start DIARIO more than 25 years ago, and was able to make it the largest (by far!) of the papers circulating in Aruba. Today it has over 89% of the market exclusively.

I started to publish books in Papiamento, English and Spanish, and have so far published 56 of them, including 4 dictionaries, 4 novels published in Cali, Colombia, the History of Aruba, and other fiction and non-fiction books. I am considered to be the most prolific writer in the history of the Netherlands Antilles, not only because of the quantities published, but also because of the quality.

That, my friend, is a brief summary of my schooling and literary activities.

Mike: Thank You Jossy!

Posted by EasyWriter at 11:07 AM   

Thanks texasmom.

Janet

[WhiskeyGirl]

As far as casino's in Aruba....they are a far cry from Las Vegas. They are very small, have outdated slot machines and not too many tables and do not have a reputation for being loose. Gambling in Aruba is disappointing.

Aruba gambling is listed on the net with "luxury" and "Top" destinations -

#2 here -

Aruba has 11 casinos located at some of its largest resorts. A few, like the Crystal Casino, are open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, but in general opening hours are 11 a.m. for slots and 1 p.m. for table games. The currency is the U.S. dollar. Two of the most spectacular casinos include the island’s largest, Stellaris Casino at the Aruba Marriott, and the sophisticated Crystal Casino at the Renaissance Aruba Resort. Both have live music nightly. Other options include the Excelsior Casino at the Holiday Inn Sunspree, the Alhambra Casino in Oranjestad and the Hyatt Regency Aruba Resort & Casino.

http://gocaribbean.about.com/od/bestbeaches/tp/CaribGaming.htm


I would not be inclined to go to Aruba to gamble, but under the right circumstances, the sand might feel nice and warm between my toes, especially on a day like this! 

 

[Blonde]

There are many possibles in this case..
The Gardner witness.. for one
Was he a witness or a decoy ?


The beauty in a good con..
What a true con admires the most is when they leave everyone guessing with no way to prove one way or the other.

THE GARDENER

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


Gardener - Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony
August 15, 2005

I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is. When I encountered the car in question, it was on that dirt road. I had slowed down to drive past there. The lights of my car "from" shining on that car. The person beside the driver, kept its hand for its head and face. I saw that the driver slid a bit to the back.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


JOSSY MANSUR

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for July 26, 2005, CNNHN
Aired July 26, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


BETH HOLLOWAY

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Update on Natalee Holloway Investigation
Aired February 23, 2006 - 21:00 ET

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html


DAVE HOLLOWAY

Hannity & Colmes
August 10, 2005

HOLLOWAY: Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course. Some witnesses may be scared to come forward for fear of repercussions.

[truthseeker2]

Janet,

Not sure why you are attacking me on this site, but I am trying to take your advice and just scroll on by.  Maybe you could do the same????

[Tamikosmom]

There are many possibles in this case..
The Gardner witness.. for one
Was he a witness or a decoy ?


The beauty in a good con..
What a true con admires the most is when they leave everyone guessing with no way to prove one way or the other.

THE GARDENER

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


Gardener - Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony
August 15, 2005

I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is. When I encountered the car in question, it was on that dirt road. I had slowed down to drive past there. The lights of my car "from" shining on that car. The person beside the driver, kept its hand for its head and face. I saw that the driver slid a bit to the back.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


JOSSY MANSUR

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for July 26, 2005, CNNHN
Aired July 26, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


BETH HOLLOWAY

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Update on Natalee Holloway Investigation
Aired February 23, 2006 - 21:00 ET

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html


DAVE HOLLOWAY

Hannity & Colmes
August 10, 2005

HOLLOWAY: Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course. Some witnesses may be scared to come forward for fear of repercussions.

Thanks Blonde.

It is good to see that my compilation of topic quotes are not completely disregarding.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Recieved  a e-mail back from a Roeland bol regarding the Natalee Holloway investigation but oddly enough it was not addressed to me.Am i able to copy and post it here?I would think not?Need an answer from a Mod??

[Keepthefaith]

Roeland Bol
Secretary Executive Board Kingdom Relations at Ministerie van BZK

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

Not sure why you are attacking me on this site, but I am trying to take your advice and just scroll on by.  Maybe you could do the same????

I was serious.  I appreciated reading the commentary on the Mansur family.  I found it very interesting.

I was stating what I comprehended.  Up until 1997 Jossy Mansur had not been indicted in any wrongdoing.

I am now in the process right now of attempting locate a more recent research article ... a more recent article that implicates the Mansur family ... Jossy Mansur ... in wrongdoing.

Until then ... I will uphold this man in regards to his support of the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

[Edward]

Thanks Blondie for all your research notes. You are amazing