Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[truthseeker2]

Janet,

Not sure why you are attacking me on this site, but I am trying to take your advice and just scroll on by.  Maybe you could do the same????

I was serious.  I appreciated reading the commentary on the Mansur family.  I found it very interesting.

I was stating what I comprehended.  Up until 1997 Jossy Mansur had not been indicted in any wrongdoing.

I am now in the process right now of attempting locate a more recent research article ... a more recent article that implicates the Mansur family ... Jossy Mansur ... in wrongdoing.

Until then ... I will uphold this man in regards to his support of the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

If you were indeed serious, then I apologize.

My main interest in Jossy and/or his family is more to the extended family.  I do not dislike Jossy..but I am unsure of where his loyalties lie.  There are a couple of things I would like to run by Kermit that maybe he/she can answer.  I have not posted it here yet, because outside of Jossy none of the other names have ever been posted at SM.  I would hate to put a name out here and have all of us look at them in a bad light if the connection I have made so far can not be completed.

Jossy is well known on this board, and when you consider the list that wreck posted earlier...well, wreck was able to post it quicker than I was.  That list is exactly what I have been coming up with in my other research.

I do not think Jossy harmed Natalee.  He doesn't strike me as the type.  But, I do think he is and has been in a position to know more merely based on his family's reputation on Aruba.  He knows people and people know his family.  That is my beef with Jossy.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

Not sure why you are attacking me on this site, but I am trying to take your advice and just scroll on by.  Maybe you could do the same????

truthseeker2

Up until last night ... I do not believe that you and I were ever in a dialogue exchange.  However ... it was you who initiated the dialogue by singling out and ... under mining my research quotes.

Let's not forget who first attacked who.

Without a sincere apology ... I will not forget.

Janet

Janet,

Would you be able to put your reminder into a short summary.  I followed all of that when it was happening.  What is it that you want to remind us of?

Just scroll by.

In 3 1/2 years I have never asked another poster to supply a short summary rather than quotting his/her research that pertains to the discussion at hand and ... looking back at this thread in never have you.

Janet

Why is that a problem?

I could go back and post every single quote from every single transcript from every single source and call it a reminder.

I keep all options open until the truth is revealed...including taking a second look at those we hoped we could trust. You posted "Reminders" containing Jossy quotes.  Good enough, I suppose...I can only surmise that you are trying to tell me that I should support Jossy because of those statements he made.  If that is what you would have someone infer from your post, well... I hope you are right...but, I will keep an open mind...about all of the people who have been involved in this.   Sometimes an open mind leads you to question what you saw or heard...even though it looked or sounded right the first time.

Sorry if you were offended.  I have no problem with asking or providing summaries.  I can scroll by yours.  No problem.  But, your type of response is one of the reasons I do not post as often as some others.  Who needs it?

It was my determination that the direction the topic of discussion was headed ... it was important that the forum was given a "REMINDER" regarding the words of only Aruban that has publicly supported the family of Natalee Holloway in the  contention that a corrupt investigation is preventing justice from prevailing for an eighteen year old American citizen.

In my opinion ... a short summary would not suffice ... Jossy's own words was where it was at.

Now I do believe I will read through Blonde's quote ... not short summary ... from Joran's book ... a book I have not thought about in a long time.  Then I will review both the quotes and short summaries on this thread pertaining to this topic ... quotes and short summaries contributed by others.

Janet

[truthseeker2]

Janet,

Not sure why you are attacking me on this site, but I am trying to take your advice and just scroll on by.  Maybe you could do the same????

truthseeker2

Up until last night ... I do not believe that you and I were ever in a dialogue exchange.  However ... it was you who initiated the dialogue by singling out and ... under mining my research quotes.

Let's not forget who first attacked who.

Without a sincere apology ... I will not forget.

Janet

Janet,

Would you be able to put your reminder into a short summary.  I followed all of that when it was happening.  What is it that you want to remind us of?

Just scroll by.

In 3 1/2 years I have never asked another poster to supply a short summary rather than quotting his/her research that pertains to the discussion at hand and ... looking back at this thread in never have you.

Janet

Why is that a problem?

I could go back and post every single quote from every single transcript from every single source and call it a reminder.

I keep all options open until the truth is revealed...including taking a second look at those we hoped we could trust. You posted "Reminders" containing Jossy quotes.  Good enough, I suppose...I can only surmise that you are trying to tell me that I should support Jossy because of those statements he made.  If that is what you would have someone infer from your post, well... I hope you are right...but, I will keep an open mind...about all of the people who have been involved in this.   Sometimes an open mind leads you to question what you saw or heard...even though it looked or sounded right the first time.

Sorry if you were offended.  I have no problem with asking or providing summaries.  I can scroll by yours.  No problem.  But, your type of response is one of the reasons I do not post as often as some others.  Who needs it?

It was my determination that the direction the topic of discussion was headed ... it was important that the forum was given a "REMINDER" regarding the words of only Aruban that has publicly supported the family of Natalee Holloway in the  contention that a corrupt investigation is preventing justice from prevailing for an eighteen year old American citizen.

In my opinion ... a short summary would not suffice ... Jossy's own words was where it was at.

Now I do believe I will read through Blonde's quote ... not short summary ... from Joran's book ... a book I have not thought about in a long time.  Then I will review both the quotes and short summaries on this thread pertaining to this topic ... quotes and short summaries contributed by others.

Janet

Uh...see my last post.

As for "under mining" your research quotes...You posted a lot of quotes.  Quotes I have read through about a million times.  I TRULY wanted to hear where you were headed with that.  People were discussing Jossy, you posted nothing but just his quotes.

I guess the only response anyone could have given you would have been to post all of Jossy's quotes where he said he was going to provide more information...then never did.

I can scroll on by, as you suggested, or we can have a civil disussion from time to time.  Either way, I think we will both survive this...being that we do have the same goal.  Justice for Natalee.

[Buckeye]

Recieved  a e-mail back from a Roeland bol regarding the Natalee Holloway investigation but oddly enough it was not addressed to me.Am i able to copy and post it here?I would think not?Need an answer from a Mod??

I'm interested.  Not sure why you would need permission to post it....unless somehow he linked RU...lol....

[San]

Recieved  a e-mail back from a Roeland bol regarding the Natalee Holloway investigation but oddly enough it was not addressed to me.Am i able to copy and post it here?I would think not?Need an answer from a Mod??

I'm interested.  Not sure why you would need permission to post it....unless somehow he linked RU...lol....

Post the email as long as no personal information (email address,etc.) is posted.

[klaasend]

DANA PRETZER NOW!  http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

[klaasend]

Recieved  a e-mail back from a Roeland bol regarding the Natalee Holloway investigation but oddly enough it was not addressed to me.Am i able to copy and post it here?I would think not?Need an answer from a Mod??

I'm interested.  Not sure why you would need permission to post it....unless somehow he linked RU...lol....

Post the email as long as no personal information (email address,etc.) is posted.

YES, as long as no identifying email addresses or phone numbers, etc are in the email go ahead and post if you feel it will help discussion of the case.

If after seeing the email it appears to be out of line we can edit it.

[SuzieQ]

You have to establish in this particular family who owns what and who controls what..

For instance Luis Mansur is listed as assistant editor on the DARIO !!!
Yet he gets arrested for major things..
He Shoots a gun at police and has major amounts of cocaine money and weapons in his possession in his home !! The judge in his case claimed he has hurt others..
His partners call him the Boss
And he is Josy's brother. He acts out as being above the law.. That is a pattern of behavior.
That type of pattern that hurts others.

But he is just a family member like some lost cousin ?

Someone may have already answered this but I think the Luis Mansur that is ths assistant editor of Diaro is Joseys son( named after his brother).

[WhiskeyGirl]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

(snipped by WG for space)

That was an interesting file.  I never found any related documents on the web. 

It's been over ten years.  I'm inclined to believe there has been a power shift on the island in favor of non-Mansurs.  I wonder if there is any investigation of Posner?  His current business?  Hi donations?  Purchase of businesses since tourism is down these past few years?

Might he or those affiliated with him own an increasing percentage of the island? 

What are the Chicago connections on the island?  Aruba the new Spain, Portugal, or Italy for the folks from Illinois and Holland?

[Keepthefaith]

Recieved  a e-mail back from a Roeland bol regarding the Natalee Holloway investigation but oddly enough it was not addressed to me.Am i able to copy and post it here?I would think not?Need an answer from a Mod??

I'm interested.  Not sure why you would need permission to post it....unless somehow he linked RU...lol....

Post the email as long as no personal information (email address,etc.) is posted.

YES, as long as no identifying email addresses or phone numbers, etc are in the email go ahead and post if you feel it will help discussion of the case.

If after seeing the email it appears to be out of line we can edit it.

Your message about an official investigation Natalee Holloway

Thank you for your contribution by e-mail sent on 9 december 2008.

 

Your message is being handled by the Directorate for Kingdom Relations. We aim to respond to your message by e-mail before 25 December.

 

 

THE STATE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR AND KINGDOM RELATIONS,

on her behalf,

The director for Kingdom relations,

 

G.E.A. van Craaikamp

 

Ministry of Interior and Kingdom Relations

The Hague, The Netherlands

[Keepthefaith]

Recieved  a e-mail back from a Roeland bol regarding the Natalee Holloway investigation but oddly enough it was not addressed to me.Am i able to copy and post it here?I would think not?Need an answer from a Mod??

I'm interested.  Not sure why you would need permission to post it....unless somehow he linked RU...lol....

Post the email as long as no personal information (email address,etc.) is posted.

YES, as long as no identifying email addresses or phone numbers, etc are in the email go ahead and post if you feel it will help discussion of the case.

If after seeing the email it appears to be out of line we can edit it.

Your message about an official investigation Natalee Holloway

Thank you for your contribution by e-mail sent on 9 december 2008.

 

Your message is being handled by the Directorate for Kingdom Relations. We aim to respond to your message by e-mail before 25 December.

 

 

THE STATE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR AND KINGDOM RELATIONS,

on her behalf,

The director for Kingdom relations,

 

G.E.A. van Craaikamp

 

Ministry of Interior and Kingdom Relations

The Hague, The Netherlands

This may just be the uniform letter that they send out???Thought it interesting they'd respond by Dec 25th??Why then??

Sent out many e-mails to the Consulates in the USA,as well as to the others caesu sent..

[texasmom]

Thanks for sharing your response with us keepthefaith!

[Keepthefaith]

Thanks for sharing your response with us keepthefaith!

Is that like there Public relations dept???I sent out quite a few e-mails.That is the only response i've got but it was addressed to a different individual but my e-mail?

[yapperz1]

Hiya Monkeys
Just gonna throw out my thoughts on Jossy never coming thru with extra info he says he has.
We have all heard that on Aruba if iino has been made public it can't be used in court. Maybe Jossy is keeping things close to the vest to make sure he can contribute the goods that can help bring down the corrupt bastards there. I would rather them be held & not revealed. I would prefer info that could indeed be used & not tossed out. I also feel the pics/screen caps from the Persistance should not have been posted without express consent from the family or FBI or whomever may have been investigating them. JMOO

[texasmom]

Thanks for sharing your response with us keepthefaith!

Is that like there Public relations dept???I sent out quite a few e-mails.That is the only response i've got but it was addressed to a different individual but my e-mail?

I have no idea, but that's strange...another name; but your email address.  

[truthseeker2]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

(snipped by WG for space)

That was an interesting file.  I never found any related documents on the web. 

It's been over ten years.  I'm inclined to believe there has been a power shift on the island in favor of non-Mansurs.  I wonder if there is any investigation of Posner?  His current business?  Hi donations?  Purchase of businesses since tourism is down these past few years?

Might he or those affiliated with him own an increasing percentage of the island? 

What are the Chicago connections on the island?  Aruba the new Spain, Portugal, or Italy for the folks from Illinois and Holland?

All very good questions.  It may have been just my imagination, but I did not get the impression that Posner and Jossy were very friendly.  Turf war, maybe?  Did anyone ever find out if you  have to have an Aruban business partner in order to won a business in Aruba?  I know it was being discussed here as to who is partners with Posner???

[Hotshot]

This is so cool.  Look at the post cards that can be bought.....
Clinton:      http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=826&srctype=products_detail
Billy Graham:        http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=823&srctype=products_detail

[Keepthefaith]

This is so cool.  Look at the post cards that can be bought.....
Clinton:      http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=826&srctype=products_detail
Billy Graham:        http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=823&srctype=products_detail

Have a feeling you want Kermit to come out?

[truthseeker2]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

(snipped by WG for space)

That was an interesting file.  I never found any related documents on the web. 

It's been over ten years.  I'm inclined to believe there has been a power shift on the island in favor of non-Mansurs.  I wonder if there is any investigation of Posner?  His current business?  Hi donations?  Purchase of businesses since tourism is down these past few years?

Might he or those affiliated with him own an increasing percentage of the island? 

What are the Chicago connections on the island?  Aruba the new Spain, Portugal, or Italy for the folks from Illinois and Holland?

Here is another related link:

http://tinyurl.com/5c2vtg

<snip>
Mansur Trading Company, which has revenues of about $ 100 million a year, was brought in 1996 by the president of the United States as the largest clan laundry in the region through the sale of Marlboro cigarettes, liquor, groceries and other operations of the free zone (Trading FreeZone), which controlled the island and through sde which carry containers loaded with cocaine.

<snip>
In laundering operations with money from Colombian drug traffickers, other companies of brothers Eric and Alex Mansur, indicted in Puerto Rico for money laundering: Trading FreeZone, Manimex, Marlex, Transimex, Mitan, Runam Holdings, DoubleTree Investments, CardGame Ltda, Pin Point Holdings, Satuma Brands, liqueurs and Aruba.


I haven't checked to see the official owners and officers of all of these companies yet.

[wreck]

This is so cool.  Look at the post cards that can be bought.....
Clinton:      http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=826&srctype=products_detail
Billy Graham:        http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=823&srctype=products_detail

She didn't say she TOOK the pictures!  What is your point other than to say you don't believe Kermit? Why don't just say it?