Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[yapperz1]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Tamikosmom posted:
<snip>
Yap ... do you have information to the contrary.

Janet

______


Janet, actually I do. I would rather not go in to it here. You are welcome to get my email address from Klaas.

Why is it you rather not go into it here?  You brought it up.....Why offer your email through Klaas to Janet?  Is it because she asked?  I just don't get it...and I did read Klaas's post before starting mine.

[wreck]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

But you just did! 

[Keepthefaith]

Hiya Monkeys
Just gonna throw out my thoughts on Jossy never coming thru with extra info he says he has.
We have all heard that on Aruba if iino has been made public it can't be used in court. Maybe Jossy is keeping things close to the vest to make sure he can contribute the goods that can help bring down the corrupt bastards there. I would rather them be held & not revealed. I would prefer info that could indeed be used & not tossed out. I also feel the pics/screen caps from the Persistance should not have been posted without express consent from the family or FBI or whomever may have been investigating them. JMOO

It was the family (Robin) that allowed the original photos to be posted at BNH.  It was OE that shared the other photos.  Maybe your suggestion on not sharing those photos should be directed at Robin and OE. 

Me personally.I'm still waiting to understand why certain posters don't believe,and or trust Kermit?Please help the people "not in the know" as to why?

[texasmom]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

But you just did! 

Just as planned.  JMO  

[wreck]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

But you just did! 

Kermit puts things out there for inspection and rebuttle -- what about you and Hotshot??? Put up or shut up! -JMO

[yapperz1]

texasmom, nothing was planned about my response. Janet ask me directly & I answered her. Nothing more nothing less.

[Ono]

Remember Paulus was given a Letter of Commendation from Karin Janssen stating he was not a suspect, was of good character, etc. and that is all it took for him to be able to be instated to the bar.

Also didn't Aruba Girl once post that he had also taught law at the Aruban University? 

We do have photos of Paulus being sworn into the bar, in his black robes, etc.  He has also since then received a public warning from Jorg I think it was about his unbecoming activities with regard to publicity in Natalee's case.

I'm so many pages behind, so sorry if this is addressed later on, but I remember Arlene Schipper saying she had been a student in one of Paulus' law classes...

[MuffyBee]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

This post surpasses even your previous one, which you haven't answered yet.  Do the rest of us get to share this information via email or not?  If you didn't want to stir the mud, you should never, ever have implied you have information that you will only share with a particular person.  To say you have knowledge but can't share it with us says what?  We are untrustworthy?  It's only rumor and speculation?  I'm trying to figure out right now what I shouldn't know.   

Edited to change "email" to "post"

[Keepthefaith]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

But you just did! 

Kermit puts things out there for inspection and rebuttle -- what about you and Hotshot??? Put up or shut up! -JMO

Just did!Agreed.I'm still waiting for anything that discounts what Kermit is saying and still haven't been presented with it!Does anybody have the secret as to why this line of questioning is never answered?A i've said before i'm "not in the know crowd".

[texasmom]

texasmom, nothing was planned about my response. Janet ask me directly & I answered her. Nothing more nothing less.

The response isn't what I was referring to.  Just some interesting timing to some posts tonight is all.   

[wreck]

Klaas, I am not trying to be a P.I.T.A. & say I know things others don't or shouldn't know. I just prefer to not stir up the mud again. If Janet wants my email address, you can give it to her.

But you just did! 

Kermit puts things out there for inspection and rebuttle -- what about you and Hotshot??? Put up or shut up! -JMO

Just did!Agreed.I'm still waiting for anything that discounts what Kermit is saying and still haven't been presented with it!Does anybody have the secret as to why this line of questioning is never answered?A i've said before i'm "not in the know crowd".

Coming next they are going to tell us they are not in any "secret forums" or don't know any more than anyone else.

[MuffyBee]

Was that a drive by?  Just come and make posts to shake the cage and leave?   

[wreck]

After 3 1/2 + years -- I'm very willing to ruffle some feathers. I want  demand transparency.

[Keepthefaith]

Was that a drive by?  Just come and make posts to shake the cage and leave?   

I was waiting for someone to say something.That is funny.Was that what we consider the first Drive-by post!Drive-by post.Coined by MuffyBee..

[hotping]

Was that a drive by?  Just come and make posts to shake the cage and leave?   

That's sure what it seemed like to Me.....   

[SS]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

(snipped by WG for space)

That was an interesting file.  I never found any related documents on the web. 

It's been over ten years.  I'm inclined to believe there has been a power shift on the island in favor of non-Mansurs.  I wonder if there is any investigation of Posner?  His current business?  Hi donations?  Purchase of businesses since tourism is down these past few years?

Might he or those affiliated with him own an increasing percentage of the island? 

What are the Chicago connections on the island?  Aruba the new Spain, Portugal, or Italy for the folks from Illinois and Holland?

Here is another related link:

http://tinyurl.com/5c2vtg

<snip>
Mansur Trading Company, which has revenues of about $ 100 million a year, was brought in 1996 by the president of the United States as the largest clan laundry in the region through the sale of Marlboro cigarettes, liquor, groceries and other operations of the free zone (Trading FreeZone), which controlled the island and through sde which carry containers loaded with cocaine.

<snip>
In laundering operations with money from Colombian drug traffickers, other companies of brothers Eric and Alex Mansur, indicted in Puerto Rico for money laundering: Trading FreeZone, Manimex, Marlex, Transimex, Mitan, Runam Holdings, DoubleTree Investments, CardGame Ltda, Pin Point Holdings, Satuma Brands, liqueurs and Aruba.


I haven't checked to see the official owners and officers of all of these companies yet.

Very interesting stuff..

first one: Marlex,
Marlex is a trademarked name for "crystalline polypropylene" and "high-density polyethylene" (HDPE). These plastics were invented by J. Paul Hogan and Robert Banks, two research chemists at the Phillips Petroleum company.

Marlex was used by Wham-O for their Hula Hoops in the 1950s, which helped create a market for this plastic. It is now used surgically as a reinforcing mesh in inguinal hernia repair.


Which is
Same company as Phillip Morris tobacco.

Right Up their ally



The most interesting thing was Josy saying he was Born in Aruba..
Which makes him an Aruban national citizen.
His holding Dutch citizenship is something I wonder about.
Also the amount of books he has written makes him a sort of genius. How Many people write Dictionaries ?
All very interesting

Edward - Many months ago, I spent days researching this in Shango.  It was prompted by something that I had read in the same article that was posted a few pages back saying that many of the Mansurs have maintained their Venezuelan citizenship.  From what I could determine, Jossy most likely has citizenship in three countries.  This enables him to own businesses in all three countries plus the US, where the Mansurs have several businesses in Miami.  Jossy is Aruban by birth and Venezuelan through the citizenship of his parents.  If an individual is born in Aruba and lives there for a specific number of years, that person is also eligible for citizenship in the Netherlands without giving up any other citizenship for which they are eligible.  While I was doing this research, I also learned another tidbit that angers the Arubans.  Dutch citizens living on Aruba are exempt from some of the taxes that Arubans are required to pay.

[Tamikosmom]

Greta had JQK on the show.  JQK plans on being in Aruba the first of January to make sure they have all Greta's information and to make sure they do what they say their going to do.  Said there needs to be transparency.

She deliberately credited Rudy Croes for calling for the investigation and said he would be a hero if this happens ... [ let's hope some flattery works ! ] ; JQK is not giving up ! 

Ono

In 2005, Rudy Croes made it known that there was a Jan Vander Sloot/Paulus van der Sloot connection.

In 2006 Rudy Croes requested a Dutch investigation of the Natalee Holloway case under the control of Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes ... a Minister with a Paulus van der Sloot connection.  On January 1, 2003 ... Johan Remkes endorsed the the appointment of Paulus van der Sloot to "deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

The Dutch investigation of 2006 encompassed the search of the van der Sloot residence and ... it encompassed pouring through the Natalee Holloway case file yet ... in over two years since ... there has been no accountability of those involved in the happenings of the morning and ... there has been no accountability of those in the Dutch/Aruban administration who participated in the coverup.

The latest developments of December, 2008 are not developments at all.  They are flashbacks to 2005 and 2006.

I suspect that the Aruban/Dutch administrations have two agendas ...

1.  an agenda to create a distraction away from the contents of the trap/cage discovered and turned over unchallenged to the ALE by John Silvetti of the Persistence

2.  an agenda to close the Natalee Holloway case and ... in an attempt to pacify the family ...  a sacrificial lamb has been selected to take the fall.  In other words ... accountability for a compromised investigation will starts and ends with Jan Vander Straaten?

Janet

+++++

JUNE, 2005/AUGUST, 2005

THE PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT CONNECTION

Paulus van der Sloot - NOVA/TWAN HUYS - 06/28/05

Paulus van der Sloot: That gives a feeling of absurdity. It is indeed almost unimaginable that by someone you actually know very well, where you worked together with for a long time, that that one comes to tell you that you are suspected of complicity to murder.

HUYS: Who was that in your case?

VAN DER SLOOT: That was, in this case, that was the leader of the team of police commissioners.

HUYS: Jan van der Straaten.

VAN DER SLOOT: That was Jan van der Straaten, yes.

HUYS: And you know each other very well?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.


Eric Zaandam - President Police Union, Aruban television 8/28/06

Now, information are coming out that Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.


Rudy Croes - Minister of Justice - Top 95 radio 8/28/06

Aruban Minister of Justice Mr. Rudy Croes, in relationship with the Natalee Holloway investigation, revealed a very serious information in direction of Van der Straaten.

Minister Croes revealed that he knows about various telephone calls of Van der Straaten and that he, the minister, knows with whom Van der Straaten was talking to ...

<snipped>

Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!
Natalee’s Freebirds

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg287560;topicseen#msg287560


AUGUST, 2006

August 26, 2006
Aruba wants Dutch police to take over Natalee case

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruban authorities want Dutch police to take over the investigation of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, who vanished on the Caribbean island more than one year ago, a local newspaper reported Friday.  Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes sent a letter last week to Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes and to another Dutch official asking the Dutch police to handle the case, saying little progress had been made, the Solo di Pueblo newspaper reported.

If Dutch police take over the investigation, they will have access to all case files and their own office, according to the newspaper, which didn't cite its source. Remkes will visit the Dutch Caribbean islands, including Aruba, next week, authorities said in the Netherlands.

Telephone calls placed to Croes' office for comment Friday went unanswered.

Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, the last night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Then 18, the native of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a bar with three young men.

Authorities have arrested eight people in connection with her disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210525,00.html
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060826/aruba.shtml


DECEMBER, 2008

Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation.

[MuffyBee]

Was that a drive by?  Just come and make posts to shake the cage and leave?   

I was waiting for someone to say something.That is funny.Was that what we consider the first Drive-by post!Drive-by post.Coined by MuffyBee..

I liked Wreck's "put up or shut up".   I was also wondering since some know things we (you and I, the common monkeys) cannot be told, what are we, chopped liver?!

[texasmom]

Was that a drive by?  Just come and make posts to shake the cage and leave?