Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[truthseeker2]

caesu
 
The current request of Croes goes much further. The Dutch detection agents would gain power in Aruba, a private location and weapons may also contribute. Croes wants the National Police Services (KLPD) the direction the investigation takes.

Would this be a precedent?  If so, would it have long range implications for The Netherlands and Aruba in terms of Aruba's independence?  The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if it does have long term ramifications can other politicians in The Netherlands keep it from happening?

this was 2006.

i am speculating here.
because i am having a hard time giving Rudy Croes the benefit of the doubt.
but for the sake looking at this from all sides and not ruling out anything.

it might be that Rudy Croes realized that his OM was too much infected with corrupt Dutchies.
he couldn't request his PG Croes-Fernandes to order a Internal Investigation (Landsrecherche) because the one managing the investigation would be a public-prosecutor from the same corrupt OM.
(and Jan van der Straten of all people was at the time the Landsrecherche Commissioner - not 100% about this)

so Rudy Croes hoped the KLPD would be able to uncover all conflicts of interests and solve the case.
that's why he made the extraordinary decision to let the KLPD head the investigation.
but the KLPD failed to do this (because of too many links to the Dutch Justice System itself? or because Remkes appointed  van der Sloot? < i have my doubts about this, any Minister would have appointed Van der Sloot, Remkes most likely was just acting on a recommendation from Aruba).

maybe now (2008-2009) Rudy Croes is going to give it a 2nd try.
but Rudy would only do this if he is sure this time it will lead to something.

again this is of course a theory. might all be a smokescreen again.

If Remkes did not appoint Van Der Sloot he could be a 'go with the flow' type of politician.. In other words, he would not go against what another Minister did. 

Your theory makes sense...especially if Van Der Straaten was the Landsrecherche Commissioner at the time.

This could all get very interesting over the next few weeks.  Thanks to you and Johan for all of your insight and information.

[SS]

The Caylee thread never ceases to amaze me and I just had to share this with you.  One poster wanted to know if Red was Cindy Anthony's brother.  Another poster was asking who Shango is and if he is Urine's lawyer.   

[SS]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: SS on Today at 11:44:32 AM
I have had a lingering thought about Urine's admission that he sold Natalee for $10K.  In my business, I have worked with numerous sociopaths over the years and I have learned that there is usually some element of truth in their twisted stories.  I am wondering if Urine and his friends and/or Paulass have been involved with selling victims or if Urine knows that his father has been involved with human trafficking.  This might not have been Natalee's fate, but perhaps this could have been the fate of other victims that Urine is aware of and/or has been involved with.  This could very easily be the hook that Urine has to his father and other adults on Aruba.  I suspect that Urine's performance with Greta was a message to the "higher powers" that he wants more money and that he is prepared to drop the dime on all of them.  I don't think that Urine's story about handing the blonde girl over for a bag with $9600 has anything to do with Natalee directly.  There is something about the amount of money being short several hundred dollars that sticks out.  Did Urine get a hush money check that was less than the agreed amount?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SS,

I have not ruled out the possibility that Joran did sell Natalee.  And, I do believe it is possible that she may not have been the first one.  She may just have been the first American girl he was involved with trafficking.

We have seen that Joran is heavily addicted to gambling.  He has stolen from people since he left Aruba.  While in Aruba he seemed to have money to gamble with, yet no job to fall back on to earn his gambling money. 

Joran stated in his last interview that he knew "this man' from the Radisson.  The evening of 5/30 Joran is out gambling in and around the Radisson.  Where did he get the money?  If you had just murdered someone, why would you be out and about...when you have the excuse that it is a school night...instead of keeping a low profile.  Do we really think this 17 year old kid who was smart enough to get rid of a dead body would be stupid enough to be seen out and about the very next night?

Paulus stated that Joran had his gym bag with him when he dropped him off at the racquet club the afternoon of 5/30.  I believe it has been confirmed that Joran did not play tennis that afternoon.   Was this a bag of money?  And that he met several friends there.  One of which says his phone was stolen that very day.  Hmm.  I doubt anyone checked the cell calls to and from that number on 5/30.

Or, a case could be made for the scenario that Joran was heavily in debt to one of the casinos...could the trafficking of an American blonde clear his debt?  And with all the publicity he thinks he can blackmail these people when he gets low on cash by telling the media what he did with enough of a twist that will implicate his own father's activity in the coverup. 

I can't figure out if the guy is brilliant or stupid.

When we were working on some things in Shango, it came out that Urine might have had money coming in because he was quite possibly working at The Mill and that he is very likely bisexual.  Julia has a connection to this.  Those guys were also dealing in drugs and porn videos.

[johan555]

caesu
 
The current request of Croes goes much further. The Dutch detection agents would gain power in Aruba, a private location and weapons may also contribute. Croes wants the National Police Services (KLPD) the direction the investigation takes.

Would this be a precedent?  If so, would it have long range implications for The Netherlands and Aruba in terms of Aruba's independence?  The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if it does have long term ramifications can other politicians in The Netherlands keep it from happening?

this was 2006.

i am speculating here.
because i am having a hard time giving Rudy Croes the benefit of the doubt.
but for the sake looking at this from all sides and not ruling out anything.

it might be that Rudy Croes realized that his OM was too much infected with corrupt Dutchies.
he couldn't request his PG Croes-Fernandes to order a Internal Investigation (Landsrecherche) because the one managing the investigation would be a public-prosecutor from the same corrupt OM.
(and Jan van der Straten of all people was at the time the Landsrecherche Commissioner - not 100% about this)

so Rudy Croes hoped the KLPD would be able to uncover all conflicts of interests and solve the case.
that's why he made the extraordinary decision to let the KLPD head the investigation.
but the KLPD failed to do this (because of too many links to the Dutch Justice System itself? or because Remkes appointed  van der Sloot? < i have my doubts about this, any Minister would have appointed Van der Sloot, Remkes most likely was just acting on a recommendation from Aruba).

maybe now (2008-2009) Rudy Croes is going to give it a 2nd try.
but Rudy would only do this if he is sure this time it will lead to something.

again this is of course a theory. might all be a smokescreen again.

Smokescreen yes

Because what happened with the request of Croes?

[SS]

Mum, off the top of your head, do you know who Posner's
Aruban partner is?  Don't you have to have an Aruban parner
to open a business on the island?

I would think that in 1998 Paulus was in charge of contracts,
and had a hand in Posner obtaining the casino.

If I recall, Chemaly, Sr. was/is involved in the ownership of some of the hotels.

[wreck]

The Caylee thread never ceases to amaze me and I just had to share this with you.  One poster wanted to know if Red was Cindy Anthony's brother.  Another poster was asking who Shango is and if he is Urine's lawyer.   

Come to think of it, Shango just may be Urine's lawyer!!!!!   

[johan555]

this video has been removed  due to terms of use violation ?

Deep Water Search for Natalee Holloway

Louis Shaffer is paying for and leading the deep water search for Natalee Holloway off the coast of Aruba. Estimated cost for the boat, crew and equipment if $1 million. Dave Holloway has decided to stay in the USA during the deep water search for his daughter as he doesn't want to be present when her body is found. A big thank you to Louis Shaffer for assisting the Holloway and Twitty families.

Read More about all the wonderful people assisting in the search for Natalee Holloway.

If Aruba doesn't think the eyes of the American nation are upon them, they need to read this:
"Nothing is being done to gain name recognition. This is to help these people," Silvetti said. "Most of us have watched this on television, and I can only imagine the horror any parent would go through searching for their child in a foreign country."
Especially when you see the foreign country doing everything they possibly can to allow the guilty to escape justice.

http://www.katablog.com/category_blogs.cfm?category=11&pagenum=6

[johan555]

DIARIO
Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:57 am       


The Government Begged The Netherlands to Take Over Natalee Holloway Case

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Yesterday it came to DIARIO's knowledge that the Government of Aruba would have begged the Netherlands to take over the Natalee Holloway case. DIARIO took advantage of Dutch Minister Atzo Nicolai's visit to ask him about this.

The minister confirmed that the government asked him for the Netherlands to take over the case but an evaluation of this has to be made and a special team of "cold cases" will do this before a decision can be made if the case will be taken over yes or no.

All this is an indication that the hope in Aruba that the case can still be solved is gone, and a cause of this is mainly the lack of money, lack of money to work overtime etc. and now the Netherlands is being run to and begged to take the case over.

This is surely a slap in the face of the Justice Department and the authorities who could not solve the case.

[texasmom]

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

[Buckeye]

Reviewing the dossier and the Natalee case is different than investigating the investigation of the case...IMO

[johan555]

[Poochy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: SS on Today at 11:44:32 AM
I have had a lingering thought about Urine's admission that he sold Natalee for $10K.  In my business, I have worked with numerous sociopaths over the years and I have learned that there is usually some element of truth in their twisted stories.  I am wondering if Urine and his friends and/or Paulass have been involved with selling victims or if Urine knows that his father has been involved with human trafficking.  This might not have been Natalee's fate, but perhaps this could have been the fate of other victims that Urine is aware of and/or has been involved with.  This could very easily be the hook that Urine has to his father and other adults on Aruba.  I suspect that Urine's performance with Greta was a message to the "higher powers" that he wants more money and that he is prepared to drop the dime on all of them.  I don't think that Urine's story about handing the blonde girl over for a bag with $9600 has anything to do with Natalee directly.  There is something about the amount of money being short several hundred dollars that sticks out.  Did Urine get a hush money check that was less than the agreed amount?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SS,

I have not ruled out the possibility that Joran did sell Natalee.  And, I do believe it is possible that she may not have been the first one.  She may just have been the first American girl he was involved with trafficking.

We have seen that Joran is heavily addicted to gambling.  He has stolen from people since he left Aruba.  While in Aruba he seemed to have money to gamble with, yet no job to fall back on to earn his gambling money. 

Joran stated in his last interview that he knew "this man' from the Radisson.  The evening of 5/30 Joran is out gambling in and around the Radisson.  Where did he get the money?  If you had just murdered someone, why would you be out and about...when you have the excuse that it is a school night...instead of keeping a low profile.  Do we really think this 17 year old kid who was smart enough to get rid of a dead body would be stupid enough to be seen out and about the very next night?

Paulus stated that Joran had his gym bag with him when he dropped him off at the racquet club the afternoon of 5/30.  I believe it has been confirmed that Joran did not play tennis that afternoon.   Was this a bag of money?  And that he met several friends there.  One of which says his phone was stolen that very day.  Hmm.  I doubt anyone checked the cell calls to and from that number on 5/30.

Or, a case could be made for the scenario that Joran was heavily in debt to one of the casinos...could the trafficking of an American blonde clear his debt?  And with all the publicity he thinks he can blackmail these people when he gets low on cash by telling the media what he did with enough of a twist that will implicate his own father's activity in the coverup. 

I can't figure out if the guy is brilliant or stupid.

When we were working on some things in Shango, it came out that Urine might have had money coming in because he was quite possibly working at The Mill and that he is very likely bisexual.  Julia has a connection to this.  Those guys were also dealing in drugs and porn videos.

Doubt if 'brilliant' describes him. 'Stupid' fits better IMHO. 

I agree with you that sociopaths state fragments of truth when they open their pie holes.

Take Joran for instance - he said 'she wanted to see sharks',  'we went to the light house', 'I fancied Ruth, not Natalee'.
Sharks = card shark/loan shark/sharks in ocean. Lighthouse = where the 'trade' took place, someone saw them on the road so they had to say that's where they were going, etc). Fancied Ruth = trying to explain in his own head why he settled on Natalee that night - ruth didn't fancy him so he should have left it alone and he wouldn't have been in all this trouble...   

Then we have the statement 'something bad happened.' To me, gang rape is something bad. Dying is something bad. Being robbed, being sold, taken against one's will is something bad. So did the J2K rape her (is that not something bad) and then something bad happened? Were they just taking her to this trade destination, but she went into convulsions (like Joran described to Patrick) and she died? Is her accidental death the something bad?   

And Deepaks statement where he stopped the car to get out to take a leak. And Satish's statement where he said he told Deepak to 'stop the car' so he could through out his yard drink (why do you totally stop a car to toss a cup out the window??) These are 1/2 truths. They stopped the car to do something. Toss Joran out? As Joran carried Natalee in his arms?

Steve Croes puts himself on a boat in the ocean outside H.I, says he hears a girl struggle and scream and a few guys on the beach with her. But MBers were skinny dipping also on the beach outside the H.I. so what beach was Steve on? Steve also places himself at C&C that night, saying he gave a couple of MBers a ride back to the hotel from C&C. Was he really at C&C that night? If so did he drive anybody back to the H.I.? If so, who? Is he the mystery friend Joran and Deepak and Satish say that Joran was talking to inside C&C and bought the person a drink.

Why would Steve say he heard a girl screaming on the beach if he was supposed to protect his good friends Kalpoes who said they dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel? What purpose would it serve for Steve or Kalpoes for him to say she was screaming? Did he hear her screaming as she was put on a boat? He said he was sleeping on a boat (the boat that takes tourists over to the Tattoo boat). A codetalker said "the DJ is the vessel". Steve is a DJ.

Why did most kids fled Aruba (Guido, Cromvort, Gottenbos boys) and why would Steve Croes remain on Aruba and opened up his pie hole? Is he guilty of being part of this travestly?

We haven't heard a peep from Steve Croes or Kalpoes. Why? Especially Satish. Why is Joran doing all the blabbing?

 
btw, the missing cell phone belonged to Sander Gottenbos (he said he lost it in school during the day). The Dutch should check all cell phone activity from Paulus' cell phone also (didn't he say he used his wife's cell phone that night?)  I would love to see the REAL cell phone calls all through that night and the next night and also for the 10 days they had to do what they needed to do to cover up this crime.
 

[Anna]

I hope I am misunderstanding that KLPD might be the ones asked to investigate vd Straten.  They already did a re-investigation and search of the Sloot compound and seemed to just rubber stamp everything ALE had already done.

They already investigated in 2006.  Needs to be somebody different or will just be same old same old results of finding nothing at all amiss.

.

[Kermit]

sharon
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline
Posts: 2444
View Profile
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #784 12/8/08 -
« Reply #941 on: Today at 07:45:51 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=fea0c5c52bcc816e910dc8082253cda6&topic=4227.940
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++






Clinton at podium at President Richard Nixon's funeral. I am standing to the left


Billy Graham at RN funeral. I'm to the left


Military Honor Guards take the casket to the buriel plot. The family followed.
21 gun salute and then a military fly by on a dark cloudy day. It was impressive.

[texasmom]

Good to see you Kermit!   

[Kermit]

FIRST LET'S CONNECT THESE PLAYERS INVOLVED IN CORRUPTION IN ARUBA:
Paulus van der Sloot
Jan van der Straaten
Zwinkels
Vocking


Zaandam keeps on saying in his book, two days after 5/29, the body of Natalee H. may have already been foundand Cvp [police commissioner] looked the other way to do a favour for Paul vd Sloot (ex of chief staff of Cabinet PG [prosecutor general] J. Zwinkels).
Posted by Getagrip at 9/19/2005 12:18:00 PM

Remember ZWINKELS:

Paulus buddy from the old Tilburg days is the Prime Minister - Oduber 1991

and ZWINKELS WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL IN 1991 (we also know that this zwinkels guy was involved in mafia money too and that is why he was forced to resign for a period of time -


All the main players knew each other during his time in office
Governmental authorities
Mr. J.H.M. Zwinkels - Attorney General
Mr. B. Vocking - Deputy Director, Aruba Correctional Institute
Ms. C. van den Berg - Head of the Rehabilitation and Child Welfare Council
Ms. Y. Spellen - Director, Guardianship Board
Mr. J. van de Straten - Head of the National Bureau of Investigations

Zwinkels is back in power as attorney general in 1994

In 1995 Zwinkels is the Prosecutor in Aruba.


1997-1997 - Zwinkels left after a 2 yr battle with the Aruban gov't (they accused him of stealing drug money)


July of 1998 he has his Attorney General job back 07-07-98



June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
"they were stymied by misinformation and false leads planted by the corrupt authorities. Why was Natalee never found? The searchers were directed to all the wrong places!

(more on this later)

[Kermit]

Good to see you Kermit!   

Thank you MissTexasmom, good to see you too.

[billb's daughter]

sharon
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline
Posts: 2444
View Profile
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #784 12/8/08 -
« Reply #941 on: Today at 07:45:51 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=fea0c5c52bcc816e910dc8082253cda6&topic=4227.940
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++






Clinton at podium at President Richard Nixon's funeral. I am standing to the left


Billy Graham at RN funeral. I'm to the left


Military Honor Guards take the casket to the buriel plot. The family followed.
21 gun salute and then a military fly by on a dark cloudy day. It was impressive.

Kermit....so glad to see you. 
I can't figure out where you may be in the pics, but I'm glad you are back and I hope you can provide info that will bring Justice for Natalee....
Sharon did say: Kermit! Come out, come out, wherever you are. Lots of delicious flies await 

[texasmom]

[Kermit]

Magnolia asked:

1998-   Michael Posner bought Grand Holiday Casnio September 1 and named it Excelsior.
He is a member of the GAMBINO MAFIA.

2001 Posner purchases the Brickell Bay Casino

Michael Posner's contributions to Aruba according to the newspaper
Aruba Today

Aruba Today- October 24th 2005
Michael Posner Contributes

There are a few people who in the last 10 years have added remendously to Aruba's product with great success. American businessman Michael Posner saw an opportunity in the mid 90's to purchase the Holiday Inn Casino, although it was run down an d on the brink of bankruptcy. Posner stepped in when the Holiday Inn Casino was in terrible condition with only 33 employees. He made a substantial investment into Aruba's product by renovating this deteriorating casino. Today the Excelsior Casino has
over 140 employees, with all management positi ons filled by Ar ubans, and pays millions of dollars in taxes each year.

Mr. Posner procured Aruba as the site for the World Poker Tournament for
the past 4 years and many years into the future. This has created 20-30 million USD for the economy of Aruba and 5 million yearly in free advertising for Aruba's tourist industry.

Posner also purchased and renovated the old Stauffer Hotel, which was considered at the time to be an eyesore to Palm Beach. He transformed the neglected hotel into the Brickell Bay Beach Club and today has over 100 employees, with all management level employment dedicated to Arubans.
He recently delivered a genuine act of kindness by donating all the rooms for the Texas EquuSearch team to search for Natalee Holloway, at a cost of over 100,000 Posner has been a generous supporter of many charities in Aruba, even going so far as to send a sick Aruban child to Disney World with his mot h er as part of the "Make a wish Foundation".

Aruba also thanks Posner for opening doors to potential new guest by making travel easier. He was directly responsible for bringing United Airlines to Aruba. Untied Airlines provides Aruba with 40,000 tourists and 300,000 hotel rooms annually.
Posner received no payment for his services and was awarded the distinction of "Aruba's Goodwill Ambassador".

Posner's contributions to Aruba's economy have been significant and greatly appreciated by the people. Besides all of humanitarian acts of kindness, he is also greatly appreciated for taking the reigns of failing bus inesses where no one else would and developing them into successful entities.
525 on: March 31, 2008, 07:00:13 PMhttp://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg369659