Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[klaasend]

Hi Monkeys, just breezing through.  I have been out of commission for a while.  Still lurked some but I don't know what the heck is going on.  Where is everybody?  What is this about a private forum?  I really am out of the loop.  Oh well, no worries.  I DO want to know where all that info is that we are waiting patiently for from CAPS and Jossy?????  Are we being led down another dead end path?

I just have one thing to say.  I stand with the FROG>>>>>>>>

 

Considering this case is over 3 1/2 years old I think the fact it is active at all is a miracle.  Funny that there are more people logged onto this NH thread than are logged into BFN.  If some have decided to post in a private forum I say good riddance.  If they haven't been banned here they will be back eventually anyway.

[Magnolia]

Hi Monkeys, just breezing through.  I have been out of commission for a while.  Still lurked some but I don't know what the heck is going on.  Where is everybody?  What is this about a private forum?  I really am out of the loop.  Oh well, no worries.  I DO want to know where all that info is that we are waiting patiently for from CAPS and Jossy?????  Are we being led down another dead end path?

I just have one thing to say.  I stand with the FROG>>>>>>>>

 

Considering this case is over 3 1/2 years old I think the fact it is active at all is a miracle.  Funny that there are more people logged onto this NH thread than are logged into BFN.  If some have decided to post in a private forum I say good riddance.  If they haven't been banned here they will be back eventually anyway.

I was thinking the same, Klaas.  This isn't the first private forum to
come along.  The Monkeys have been through a lot.

[Tamikosmom]

Tim has a bleeding ulcer and was just released from the hospital and is conducting a search in Birmingham.  He already went to Mos and Mos wouldn't even discuss this with him.

I have emailed Ann Angela at Mos' office several times but suddenly the last time, when I asked about the DEA agent, they wanted to know why I was asking and who I was (had already verified) and said they couldn't give out that information and to wait for press releases, etc.

I don't think anybody is really helping us or even trying to help us.  Remember when Jossy also said he would post the tape of Dompig saying all kinds of things then he only did a tiny bit of it and like the new witnesses, it went away as well.

Hey ... something is better than nothing which exactly what Jossy could be doing.

Maybe Jossy Mansur does not have the authority ... or the power ... to do more than he has done for the past 3 1/2 years.  Jossy is an editor ... not a member of the justice system.

Jossy Mansur is the ONLY Aruban that has supported the family ... in his publication and ... in guest appearance on American/Canadian talk shows ... in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was/is preventing justice from prevailing for their beloved Natalee.

Nelson Oduber attempt a boycott of the Diario.  The reason: Jossy's editorials regarding the Natalee Holloway case created a negative image of the Aruban Justice System which ... in turn ... was hurting the tourist industry ... the economy.

Jossy was the one who printed a full page outreach composed by a few of our Monkeys on the three year anniversary of Natalee Holloways disappearance.

Give Jossy a break!  We have to give credit where credit is due!  We have to be thankful!  We should be attacking the rest of Arubans who have done NILCH in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway!  The "powers that be" who are behind the coverup have been abetted by the apathy ... the silence ... of the Aruban people.

Janet
______

Natalee Holloway Investigation: The Witness was Afraid to Come Forward & Aware that Paulus van der Sloot had Powerful Connections in the Prosecutors Office.
September 16, 2008

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/16/natalee-holloway-investigation-the-witness-was-afraid-to-come-forward-aware-that-paulus-van-der-sloot-had-powerful-connections-in-the-prosecutors-office/#more-6072


Dear Friends in Aruba - Natalee Holloway missing 3 years
A group of Scared Monkeys put together this letter that Jossy was kind enough to publish in todays Diaro:
May 30, 2008

http://news.diario-aruba.com/content/view/2752/30/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/05/30/dear-friends-in-aruba-natalee-holloway-missing-3-years/

[Blue Moon]

Just so you all know I do a lot of lurking.  I do not belong to any secret forums. I only post here (and mostly in Natalee's thread). Very seldom post in Caylee's thread (being a Kentucky inbred about did me in on that).  I wish I could help more but Shango has blown my mind.     You all are so good with these riddles but believe me the riddles are getting old to me.  At what point will everything be laid on the line and bring some relief to Natalee's family?  I believe and trust Kermit.  Don't know anything about secret forum and I sure don't want to insert myself in the middle of an FBI investigation.  But I do want answers for Natalee's family and just wish everything from everyone was laid out for all to explore and stop fighting against it.  Some know things, some think they know things.  I am going crazy on trying to figure it all out.  Imagine how Beth and Dave feel.  Bless them.

Off to bed.  Sick with sinus cold. Ice/freezing rain did not help it today.  See ya.

[SS]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

It was a "secret" at the time, but it eventually leaked out.  Tim was at the meeting also, but he left when Mos wouldn't meet with them and he returned to the storm damage in Texas.

The secret...was it the initials?  Kermit alluded to them....where'd all this info come from, SS? 

I don't have a link.  We were told on this forum at the time that a major person was present at the meeting.  I didn't know who it was, either, until the name was dropped in later discussions. 

So you are saying it's was posted here, the secret, and I must have read it.....hmmmmm.

9/17, in reference to prior phone contacts and discussions, the name was released.....

....I was told that Peter de Vries *is* part of what is going on.....

[Blue Moon]

Just an OT (hope is always there). A local person's skull was find recently.  Tests were run and they were able to identify this guy as missing since 1987.  Eleven years and a family is closer to knowing what happened to their son.  Know they can bury him and this is a step in the right direction to finding who did this to him.  They do not always get away with it.

[klaasend]

Just an OT (hope is always there). A local person's skull was find recently.  Tests were run and they were able to identify this guy as missing since 1987.  Eleven years and a family is closer to knowing what happened to their son.  Know they can bury him and this is a step in the right direction to finding who did this to him.  They do not always get away with it.

Thanks Blue Moon.  I hope you feel better soon!

[texasmom]

Just so you all know I do a lot of lurking.  I do not belong to any secret forums. I only post here (and mostly in Natalee's thread). Very seldom post in Caylee's thread (being a Kentucky inbred about did me in on that).  I wish I could help more but Shango has blown my mind.     You all are so good with these riddles but believe me the riddles are getting old to me.  At what point will everything be laid on the line and bring some relief to Natalee's family?  I believe and trust Kermit.  Don't know anything about secret forum and I sure don't want to insert myself in the middle of an FBI investigation.  But I do want answers for Natalee's family and just wish everything from everyone was laid out for all to explore and stop fighting against it.  Some know things, some think they know things.  I am going crazy on trying to figure it all out.  Imagine how Beth and Dave feel.  Bless them.

Off to bed.  Sick with sinus cold. Ice/freezing rain did not help it today.  See ya.

I hope you feel better soon, Blue Moon of KY!

[Anna]

Tim has a bleeding ulcer and was just released from the hospital and is conducting a search in Birmingham.  He already went to Mos and Mos wouldn't even discuss this with him.

I have emailed Ann Angela at Mos' office several times but suddenly the last time, when I asked about the DEA agent, they wanted to know why I was asking and who I was (had already verified) and said they couldn't give out that information and to wait for press releases, etc.

I don't think anybody is really helping us or even trying to help us.  Remember when Jossy also said he would post the tape of Dompig saying all kinds of things then he only did a tiny bit of it and like the new witnesses, it went away as well.

Hey ... something is better than nothing which exactly what Jossy could be doing.

Maybe Jossy Mansur does not have the authority ... or the power ... to do more than he has done for the past 3 1/2 years.  Jossy is an editor ... not a member of the justice system.

Jossy Mansur is the ONLY Aruban that has supported the family ... in his publication and ... in guest appearance on American/Canadian talk shows ... in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was/is preventing justice from prevailing for their beloved Natalee.

Nelson Oduber attempt a boycott of the Diario.  The reason: Jossy's editorials regarding the Natalee Holloway case created a negative image of the Aruban Justice System which ... in turn ... was hurting the tourist industry ... the economy.

Jossy was the one who printed a full page outreach composed by a few of our Monkeys on the three year anniversary of Natalee Holloways disappearance.

Give Jossy a break!  We have to give credit where credit is due!  We have to be thankful!  We should be attacking the rest of Arubans who have done NILCH in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway!  The "powers that be" who are behind the coverup have been abetted by the apathy ... the silence ... of the Aruban people.

Janet
______

Well, Janet, I used to call in to Dana every time Jossy was on his program in support of Jossy but after so long, I don't think Jossy is able to do very much to help or he already would have done so.

He did promise the Dompig tape that we never heard from again and the other parts of the editorial  on the new witnesses seemed to fizzle as well.

I largely agree that Jossy has done far more than anybody else in Aruba and think he would do more if he could or it were easy for him to do but he does have family connections that don't seem to bear close scrutiny so perhaps that causes him to hold back?  I don't know.

I am feeling very discouraged right now.  And some seem to think they know secret things but I don't think they know any more than the rest of us so don't worry about them.  Sometimes they know less.

Mos now seems to be the problem.  Once again, we can hope he is replaced soon.  Does anybody know for sure when he is leaving OM for good?

Maybe then something will happen???

[San]

Tim has a bleeding ulcer and was just released from the hospital and is conducting a search in Birmingham.  He already went to Mos and Mos wouldn't even discuss this with him.

I have emailed Ann Angela at Mos' office several times but suddenly the last time, when I asked about the DEA agent, they wanted to know why I was asking and who I was (had already verified) and said they couldn't give out that information and to wait for press releases, etc.

I don't think anybody is really helping us or even trying to help us.  Remember when Jossy also said he would post the tape of Dompig saying all kinds of things then he only did a tiny bit of it and like the new witnesses, it went away as well.

Hey ... something is better than nothing which exactly what Jossy could be doing.

Maybe Jossy Mansur does not have the authority ... or the power ... to do more than he has done for the past 3 1/2 years.  Jossy is an editor ... not a member of the justice system.

Jossy Mansur is the ONLY Aruban that has supported the family ... in his publication and ... in guest appearance on American/Canadian talk shows ... in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was/is preventing justice from prevailing for their beloved Natalee.

Nelson Oduber attempt a boycott of the Diario.  The reason: Jossy's editorials regarding the Natalee Holloway case created a negative image of the Aruban Justice System which ... in turn ... was hurting the tourist industry ... the economy.

Jossy was the one who printed a full page outreach composed by a few of our Monkeys on the three year anniversary of Natalee Holloways disappearance.

Give Jossy a break!  We have to give credit where credit is due!  We have to be thankful!  We should be attacking the rest of Arubans who have done NILCH in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway!  The "powers that be" who are behind the coverup have been abetted by the apathy ... the silence ... of the Aruban people.

Janet
______

Well, Janet, I used to call in to Dana every time Jossy was on his program in support of Jossy but after so long, I don't think Jossy is able to do very much to help or he already would have done so.

He did promise the Dompig tape that we never heard from again and the other parts of the editorial  on the new witnesses seemed to fizzle as well.

I largely agree that Jossy has done far more than anybody else in Aruba and think he would do more if he could or it were easy for him to do but he does have family connections that don't seem to bear close scrutiny so perhaps that causes him to hold back?  I don't know.

I am feeling very discouraged right now.  And some seem to think they know secret things but I don't think they know any more than the rest of us so don't worry about them.  Sometimes they know less.

Mos now seems to be the problem.  Once again, we can hope he is replaced soon.  Does anybody know for sure when he is leaving OM for good?

Maybe then something will happen???

I just feel even if they replace Mos and new Mos will come in and pick up right after the old one did.  Just like Mos did when he replaced Karin Janssen.  I just don't feel like Mos is the one leading this investigation.  He is taking orders from someone.

[SS]

Tim has a bleeding ulcer and was just released from the hospital and is conducting a search in Birmingham.  He already went to Mos and Mos wouldn't even discuss this with him.

I have emailed Ann Angela at Mos' office several times but suddenly the last time, when I asked about the DEA agent, they wanted to know why I was asking and who I was (had already verified) and said they couldn't give out that information and to wait for press releases, etc.

I don't think anybody is really helping us or even trying to help us.  Remember when Jossy also said he would post the tape of Dompig saying all kinds of things then he only did a tiny bit of it and like the new witnesses, it went away as well.

Hey ... something is better than nothing which exactly what Jossy could be doing.

Maybe Jossy Mansur does not have the authority ... or the power ... to do more than he has done for the past 3 1/2 years.  Jossy is an editor ... not a member of the justice system.

Jossy Mansur is the ONLY Aruban that has supported the family ... in his publication and ... in guest appearance on American/Canadian talk shows ... in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was/is preventing justice from prevailing for their beloved Natalee.

Nelson Oduber attempt a boycott of the Diario.  The reason: Jossy's editorials regarding the Natalee Holloway case created a negative image of the Aruban Justice System which ... in turn ... was hurting the tourist industry ... the economy.

Jossy was the one who printed a full page outreach composed by a few of our Monkeys on the three year anniversary of Natalee Holloways disappearance.

Give Jossy a break!  We have to give credit where credit is due!  We have to be thankful!  We should be attacking the rest of Arubans who have done NILCH in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway!  The "powers that be" who are behind the coverup have been abetted by the apathy ... the silence ... of the Aruban people.

Janet
______

Well, Janet, I used to call in to Dana every time Jossy was on his program in support of Jossy but after so long, I don't think Jossy is able to do very much to help or he already would have done so.

He did promise the Dompig tape that we never heard from again and the other parts of the editorial  on the new witnesses seemed to fizzle as well.

I largely agree that Jossy has done far more than anybody else in Aruba and think he would do more if he could or it were easy for him to do but he does have family connections that don't seem to bear close scrutiny so perhaps that causes him to hold back?  I don't know.

I am feeling very discouraged right now.  And some seem to think they know secret things but I don't think they know any more than the rest of us so don't worry about them.  Sometimes they know less.

Mos now seems to be the problem.  Once again, we can hope he is replaced soon.  Does anybody know for sure when he is leaving OM for good?

Maybe then something will happen???

I just feel even if they replace Mos and new Mos will come in and pick up right after the old one did.  Just like Mos did when he replaced Karin Janssen.  I just don't feel like Mos is the one leading this investigation.  He is taking orders from someone.

According to what Caps told us, a guy named Pietersz or Peters is replacing Mos.

[texasmom]

Another puppet will fill Mos' position when he leaves.  JMO

[Anna]

Is Pieterz Dutch?  Maybe they are just determined that a European Dutchie not be blamed for this no matter what?

I just don't know what it will take.  I agree that it is remarkable that as many of us are still here as actually are.

And Greta doesn't seem to have lost interest or patience to continue trying so we just have to do the same no matter what.

[BUCKSHOT]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

Follow the money!How to expose the seedy underworld of Aruba?What buttons to push to get action?Who do we expose?Who are the 5 most powerful and influential people on the island?

You know for sure who would be on that list...The Mansur family. Start investigating/exposing?

Most feel that solving this case goes way beyond Natalee Holloway. Most feel that solving her disappearance means to expose corruption on the island. Most feel corruption (in Aruba) involves: high level drug dealing, illegal prostitution, human trafficking, bribery, money laundering, judicial corruption among judges, etc...The list goes on and on.

In my opinion, solving her disappearance would be similar to shutting down narcotics from entering the United States. It is simply too lucrative a business, for those both outside and inside the borders, too complex a system, too intricate in terms of those involved (both known and unknown - politicians) to shut down so easily. Imagine knocking on Pablo Escobar's door...Umm, I'm here to shut down you operation. Not gonna happen.

Back to Aruba, their shady dealing are too lucrative, too complex, too intricate, involves too many players (both known and unknown) to shut down so easily. It is asking the corrupt to investigate the corrupt (which involves themselves).

How does a person, sitting behind the computer, in their underwear, with a bag of Doritos in hand, solve this case.
(By the way, that description/visual was not of me. Hate Doritos, fully clothed).

The case, in terms of closure, will definitely be scripted. It will involve many authors. Any resolution, unfortunately, will be bogus and involve staged scapegoats, public reprimands, dog and pony shows, apologies. The family only wanted to respectfully lay their daughter to rest. Aruba did not even show compassion and human decency enogh to do that. Although they wanted to see the perpetrators hanging in the towne square at one point, finding and burying their daughter was always their objective.

A true tragedy and perversion of justice, in every sense of the word. Very sad.

[Anna]

Miracles do happen and skulls are found when least expected.  I don't know if Natalee was in the fish trap or not but do think those items whatever they were happened to be mishandled just as we said they would be.  No surprise there at all.  We knew it would happen and all said so at the time.

But if it was not Natalee, then there is every chance she will still be found.  Do they have meter readers in Aruba?  I think so.

[klaasend]

Is Pieterz Dutch?  Maybe they are just determined that a European Dutchie not be blamed for this no matter what?

I just don't know what it will take.  I agree that it is remarkable that as many of us are still here as actually are.

And Greta doesn't seem to have lost interest or patience to continue trying so we just have to do the same no matter what.

I believe Pieterz is Dutch.  Yes, it's amazing to me that there are as many of us still caring about the case.  Like Greta we can't give up now.

[SS]

From Caps

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 through
« Reply #543 on: September 24, 2008, 03:25:11 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The new PG will be Rob Pieters

it is in the pipeline already, will be made public soon

[wreck]

I still say we should just STOP doing anything with Aruba at all. Expose the corruption and pressure our OWN government to declare Aruba an unsafe travel destination.
The truth will set EVERYONE free. Let's just be done with them. My guess is that our FBI already KNOWS what happened -- let's just call them on it.

[Anna]

Buckshot, I agree on the complexity and likely scripted outcome of anything coming out of Aruba.

But they can jerk us around until the cows come home and we just won't go away and will still be here telling the world how horrible this tragedy was and of their failure to bring it to any kind of just resolution.

Greta has access to the largest audience so maybe we should all post on her blog about Natalee?  I don't now but am willing to if it would actually do any good.  I am sure any and all of us would do whatever if only it would help.

[Anna]

I still say we should just STOP doing anything with Aruba at all. Expose the corruption and pressure our OWN government to declare Aruba an unsafe travel destination.
The truth will set EVERYONE free. Let's just be done with them. My guess is that our FBI already KNOWS what happened -- let's just call them on it.

Wreck, Our government is not about to lose that Forward Observation Base just 16 miles from Chavez with his courting the Russians and asking for nuclear technology from them.