Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[caesu]

Is Pieterz Dutch?  Maybe they are just determined that a European Dutchie not be blamed for this no matter what?

I just don't know what it will take.  I agree that it is remarkable that as many of us are still here as actually are.

And Greta doesn't seem to have lost interest or patience to continue trying so we just have to do the same no matter what.

i think Pietersz is from Curaçao. still no official word if he stays on after December 23rd.

with Rudy Croes' comments earlier this month, i don't think he can put the lid back on it.
he will never be able to get Greta, JQK and Brinkman off his back.
and if the MEP loses the election next year i expect the AVP to call for a parliamentary inquiry.
and we even haven't heard a reaction from PRdV.
if he doesn't comment when there is some news about an ongoing case, this usually means he is busy with it.
there have been other cases he covered for many more years until it got to a conviction.

a new program by PRdV will bring everthing back to the foreground again.
the Thai trafficking program wasn't really about the actual case. he will go back and go over the first 10 days again.
if Greta also makes an hour long program about the first 10 days, just step by step go through everything again.
then bring Brinkman on or play his comments again.

at some point something will snap on Aruba or in The Netherlands, some high ranking witness of a politician with power will come forward and the house of cards collapses.

one thing i do know however is that PRdV won't hook up with Brinkman, because PRdV hates the muslim bashing the PVV does, that is Brinkman's party.

[Tamikosmom]

The Arubans and the Dutch seem all busy arguing with each other but they both seem to have forgotten about Natalee. 

It has never been about justice for Natalee Holloway.

It was all about protecting Joran van der Sloot and ... Aruba's dirty little secrets encompassing their underground economy ... drugs, alcohol, gambling, money laundering, sex trade ,,,

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Joran van der Sloot's age implies he should never have been allowed on the premises of the Excelsior Casino.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of Carlos and Charlies'.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of the Radisson.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of the Wyndham.  Yet he was not only given access to these establishments ... given access to unsuspecting young ladies ... he was allowed to drink alcohol and gamble.

Was Joran a participant in that underground economy?

Janet

++++++


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for April 3
updated 8:24 a.m. PT, Tues., April. 4, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.    I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino.  I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".


Aruba Suspects Accused of Taking Sex Photos of Another Girl
Thursday, September 01, 2005

The Kalpoe brothers were released July 4 and rearrested last week with a friend of the three young men, Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis (search), 21.
 
Zedan-Arambatzis, who is not suspected of involvement in the Holloway case, is accused of taking photos of a minor female in "tempting poses" and of showing the photos to other people, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia. He is also suspected of having unspecified "physical contact" with the girl, she said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incident, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, Emerencia said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168233,00.html


Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


'The Abrams Report' for August 4
updated 8:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 5, 2005

TWITTY:  You know it's a pretty long scenario; we have a lot of details.  You know the main thing to sum it up is you know Joran, how he entered this establishment.  I believe that you know if you enter on the right side, you have to have a valid I.D.  If you enter Carlos N' Charlie's on the left side, you must have some type of—I don't know if it's a VIP pass or what to enter, but Joran enters the establishment on the left side, approaches these groups of tourists. 

You know it's interesting how he is able to try to work his way in and connect and establish himself in that—in Carlos N' Charlie's, was walking her around and these other tourists and was able to point out Satish and Deepak Kalpoe.  They were sitting ironically in the same corner, the same stools that they were seated at in the picture that's been all over international media, so that must be their spot that they wait while Joran is working.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838598
 

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 10, 2005

To your question as to what role Joran plays in our circle of friends, I can state the following. He has no real role. We are all the same.

To your question as to where we take the girls we pick up, I can state the following. Sometimes the girls stay at "Carlos & Charlies" or sometimes we take them to their hotel.

To your question was to what exactly happens when we have picked up the girls, I can state the following. Just kissing and dancing.

To your question whether sexual intercourse has happened, I can state the following. Yes, it has happened.

To your question whether it ever happened that all of us, so in one room, had sexual intercourse, I can state the following. It has happened.

[BUCKSHOT]

A very difficult task to go to Aruba (from Holland) and investigate police corruption...Where the hell would one even start?...Demand Rudy Croes and Oduber thoroughly investigate/review the investigation all the way back from the beginning?...Where and how would Croes and Oduber even start?...Summon VanderStraaten into their office(s) to be questioned?...Ask Jacobs where all the evidence and case files are located?...Ask the judges why they denied search warrants of the entire VDS property?...Better stop...Almost fell out of my chair laughing...What a joke!!!

Sincerely, good luck with that!!! Will need a large courtroom...

End result:
(1)Apogy campaign to family, country, Holland, US, and world.
(2)Investigation into Aruban police corruption that goes nowhere. Promise, revision, and enactment of certain laws.
(3)Dog and pony show - Publicly reprimand/demote involved players.
(4)If charges brought against ANYONE (corrupted official,suspect,peripheral accomplice), they will be minor, insignificant, and will involve minimal jail time, if at all. Process will take many, many years.
(5)Aruba will forever work on restoring tourism.

The script is being written as we speak...Many authors and consultants involved...

After Aruba investigates itself for police corruption (on behalf of the NH investigation) and acts out the script, it will once again stir international news. Most likely, after years have gone by, Holland will take a crack at it. Holland will investigate Aruba for police corruption (on behalf of the NH investigation) and act out the new (and improved) version of the ongoing script. Next, if it even reaches the next and highest level, an international agency would have to investigate Aruba for police corruption (on behalf of the NH investigation). They, however, would not have to follow a script. Jurisdiction proceedings may even delay it further. From the beginning, Aruba has fought tooth and nail to KEEP OUT outsiders (and transparency) in this investiagtion.

Can the process be expedited or steps skipped? I would love to know the true A-Z's of this case, in every aspect. Have always wondered what the evidence really looks like...Think about it...Are the suspect statements even real? Did they even occur? It was known that Paulus (and likely others) had their hands in the (proverbial) evidence jar...Wonder who the real authors were...Wonder what their storage (of uncontaminated) evidence looks like...Always thought it would have been a fair request for simple permission by Aruba for other (affiliated) agencies, such as Holland(KLPD) and US(FBI) to observe (and not touch) the collected evidence just to verify that it truly exists...It is assumed that any tests conducted were: not conducted (example: Dompig-"This is a donkey bone"), or falsely given to an agency (examples: testing of chocolate-KLPD and fabric in cage-FBI)...Results of phony tests were then spread around in defense of themselves...

Done rambling...

Aruba will probably tell us that they buried her On June 15, 2005 at a small church near the coast. Everyone missed the newspaper obituary, with funeral time and date. Only a few people received invitations...

[Tamikosmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!!  GODD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!!

Janet
10:30 PM PT

[hotping]

Happy Birthday Janet! 

[BUCKSHOT]

Is Pieterz Dutch?  Maybe they are just determined that a European Dutchie not be blamed for this no matter what?

I just don't know what it will take.  I agree that it is remarkable that as many of us are still here as actually are.

And Greta doesn't seem to have lost interest or patience to continue trying so we just have to do the same no matter what.

i think Pietersz is from Curaçao. still no official word if he stays on after December 23rd.

with Rudy Croes' comments earlier this month, i don't think he can put the lid back on it.
he will never be able to get Greta, JQK and Brinkman off his back.
and if the MEP loses the election next year i expect the AVP to call for a parliamentary inquiry.
and we even haven't heard a reaction from PRdV.
if he doesn't comment when there is some news about an ongoing case, this usually means he is busy with it.
there have been other cases he covered for many more years until it got to a conviction.

a new program by PRdV will bring everthing back to the foreground again.
the Thai trafficking program wasn't really about the actual case. he will go back and go over the first 10 days again.
if Greta also makes an hour long program about the first 10 days, just step by step go through everything again.
then bring Brinkman on or play his comments again.

at some point something will snap on Aruba or in The Netherlands, some high ranking witness of a politician with power will come forward and the house of cards collapses.

one thing i do know however is that PRdV won't hook up with Brinkman, because PRdV hates the muslim bashing the PVV does, that is Brinkman's party.

Word has it that when one steps foot on Aruba, they seem to be sucked into corruption. Prime example, it is been suggested that HansMos' integrity has been compromised (to put in nicely). Does this mean that a team, the size of the Aruban government itself, needs to be recommended for this tough task? They may need to expand the local KIA, to accomodate additional square footage, in preparation for the results of their investigation.

[hotping]

Is Pieterz Dutch?  Maybe they are just determined that a European Dutchie not be blamed for this no matter what?

I just don't know what it will take.  I agree that it is remarkable that as many of us are still here as actually are.

And Greta doesn't seem to have lost interest or patience to continue trying so we just have to do the same no matter what.

i think Pietersz is from Curaçao. still no official word if he stays on after December 23rd.

with Rudy Croes' comments earlier this month, i don't think he can put the lid back on it.
he will never be able to get Greta, JQK and Brinkman off his back.
and if the MEP loses the election next year i expect the AVP to call for a parliamentary inquiry.
and we even haven't heard a reaction from PRdV.
if he doesn't comment when there is some news about an ongoing case, this usually means he is busy with it.
there have been other cases he covered for many more years until it got to a conviction.

a new program by PRdV will bring everthing back to the foreground again.
the Thai trafficking program wasn't really about the actual case. he will go back and go over the first 10 days again.
if Greta also makes an hour long program about the first 10 days, just step by step go through everything again.
then bring Brinkman on or play his comments again.

at some point something will snap on Aruba or in The Netherlands, some high ranking witness of a politician with power will come forward and the house of cards collapses.

one thing i do know however is that PRdV won't hook up with Brinkman, because PRdV hates the muslim bashing the PVV does, that is Brinkman's party.

Thanks Caesu!

[Tamikosmom]

Hey Janet,

Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to all of these great Monkeys, Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!

Cajun Miracle

Janet?  It's your birthday?  HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Don't rush it.  My 62nd Birthday can wait.  It is still just 10:30 PM December 16th in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.

 

I googled my birthdate ... December 17, 1946 ... to check what special event happened on that day.

I guess I was it.

 

Thanks for the well wishes.

Janet

[Helen Back]

Don't wanna rush it, but I'm just passing through so..........

Happy birthday Janet!   

Nite all

[texasmom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgZftrobqlg&feature=related

There's two things I know for sure:
She was sent here from heaven and she's
daddy's little girl.
As I drop to my knees by her bed at night
She talks to Jesus and I close my eyes and
I thank god for all the joy in my life
Oh, but most of all
For butterfly kisses after bedtime prayer;
sticking little white flowers all up in her
hair; "Walk beside the pony, Daddy, it's my first ride."
"I know the cake looks funny, Daddy, but I sure tried."
In all that I've done wrong I know I must
have done something right to deserve a hug
every morning and butterfly kisses at night.

Sweet 16 today
She's looking like her mama a little more everyday
One part woman, the other part girl.
To perfume and make-up from ribbons and curls
Trying her wings out in a great big world.

But I remember
Butterfly kisses after bedtime prayer; sticking
little white flowers all up in her hair.
"You know how much I love you, Daddy, But if you
don't mind I'm only gonna kiss you on the cheek this time."
With all that I've done wrong I must have done
something right to deserve her love every morning
and butterfly kisses at night.

All the precious time
Like the wind, the years go by.
Precious butterfly.
Spread your wings and fly.

(Moments, memories, a whole lifetime; stolen from Natalee and her family)

She'll change her name today.
She'll make a promise and I'll give her away.
Standing in the bride-room just staring at her.
She asked me what I'm thinking and I said "I'm not
sure-I just feel like I'm losing my baby girl."
She leaned over...gave me butterfly kisses with her mama there,
Sticking little white flowers all up in her hair
"Walk my down the aisle, Daddy-it's just about time."
"Does my wedding gown look pretty, Daddy? Daddy, don't cry!"

Oh, with all that I've done wrong I must have
done something right.
To deserve your love every morning and butterfly
kisses-I couldn't ask God for more, man this is what love is.

I know I gotta let her go, but I'll always remember
every hug in the morning and butterfly kisses.

Butterfly Kisses by Bob Carlisle

HT KERMIT

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!

[texasmom]

I hope you have a wonderful birthday Janet!   

Goodnight!   

[Keepthefaith]

Hey Janet,

Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to all of these great Monkeys, Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!

Cajun Miracle

Janet?  It's your birthday?  HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Don't rush it.  My 62nd Birthday can wait.  It is still just 10:30 PM December 16th in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.

 

I googled my birthdate ... December 17, 1946 ... to check what special event happened on that day.

I guess I was it.

 

Thanks for the well wishes.

Janet

Happy B-Day Janet! .You are a ray of light that shines through the clouds.As a Monkey i thank you for your continued strenght in searching for the truth!!

KEEPTHEFAITH

[MumInOhio]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

It was a "secret" at the time, but it eventually leaked out.  Tim was at the meeting also, but he left when Mos wouldn't meet with them and he returned to the storm damage in Texas.

The secret...was it the initials?  Kermit alluded to them....where'd all this info come from, SS? 

I don't have a link.  We were told on this forum at the time that a major person was present at the meeting.  I didn't know who it was, either, until the name was dropped in later discussions. 

So you are saying it's was posted here, the secret, and I must have read it.....hmmmmm.

9/17, in reference to prior phone contacts and discussions, the name was released.....

....I was told that Peter de Vries *is* part of what is going on.....

SS...You are correct...There was one prior to that which referred to Dutch, and others...I put the same dots together as you did.  I have been looking for the other one for weeks now for my time-line.

[MumInOhio]

I still say we should just STOP doing anything with Aruba at all. Expose the corruption and pressure our OWN government to declare Aruba an unsafe travel destination.
The truth will set EVERYONE free. Let's just be done with them. My guess is that our FBI already KNOWS what happened -- let's just call them on it.

Wreck, Our government is not about to lose that Forward Observation Base just 16 miles from Chavez with his courting the Russians and asking for nuclear technology from them.

Delicate timing...That 10 Year agreement was reached in 2000...Though of course it has nothing to do with Chavez...

Janet...Happy Birthday....Have a Great Day!

[blah]

I agree San.

However ... I do not think there is even an investigation and ... neither does Jossy Mansur and ... neither does Beth Holloway.

I believe Rudy Croes' charade of an "investigation" into the Jan Vander Straaten/Paulus van der Slot connection is nothing but a "dog and pony show" meant to bring a close to the Natalee Holloway case and ... pacify the family.  Prior to closing the case ... Aruba will apologize to the family of Natalee Holloway.  Aruba will concede that wrong decisions made in the first ten days of the investigation by Jan Vander Straaten imply justice will never prevail.

Janet

I agree 100% Janet.  We have seen it all before.  Dog and Pony Show that will go no where.

[Nut44x4]

texasmom ..... thank you for the poem/photo's post. It serves as a reminder as to why we are all still here, waiting......

[kkate]

texasmom - Thank you for posting that.

Tamikosmom - Happy Birthday!

[sharon]

texasmom ..... thank you for the poem/photo's post. It serves as a reminder as to why we are all still here, waiting......

ditto, tm.

Happy Birthday Janet.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good morning, everyone.  I made a special thread in the Monkey Lounge for Janet.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4263.new#new