Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[Hotshot]

This is so cool.  Look at the post cards that can be bought.....
Clinton:      http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=826&srctype=products_detail
Billy Graham:        http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=823&srctype=products_detail

She didn't say she TOOK the pictures!  What is your point other than to say you don't believe Kermit? Why don't just say it? 

OK......it's said.  and I didnt say she took the pictures.

[billb's daughter]

Magnolia asked:

1998-   Michael Posner bought Grand Holiday Casnio September 1 and named it Excelsior.
He is a member of the GAMBINO MAFIA.

2001 Posner purchases the Brickell Bay Casino

Michael Posner's contributions to Aruba according to the newspaper
Aruba Today

Aruba Today- October 24th 2005
Michael Posner Contributes

There are a few people who in the last 10 years have added remendously to Aruba's product with great success. American businessman Michael Posner saw an opportunity in the mid 90's to purchase the Holiday Inn Casino, although it was run down an d on the brink of bankruptcy. Posner stepped in when the Holiday Inn Casino was in terrible condition with only 33 employees. He made a substantial investment into Aruba's product by renovating this deteriorating casino. Today the Excelsior Casino has
over 140 employees, with all management positi ons filled by Ar ubans, and pays millions of dollars in taxes each year.

Mr. Posner procured Aruba as the site for the World Poker Tournament for
the past 4 years and many years into the future. This has created 20-30 million USD for the economy of Aruba and 5 million yearly in free advertising for Aruba's tourist industry.

Posner also purchased and renovated the old Stauffer Hotel, which was considered at the time to be an eyesore to Palm Beach. He transformed the neglected hotel into the Brickell Bay Beach Club and today has over 100 employees, with all management level employment dedicated to Arubans.
He recently delivered a genuine act of kindness by donating all the rooms for the Texas EquuSearch team to search for Natalee Holloway, at a cost of over 100,000 Posner has been a generous supporter of many charities in Aruba, even going so far as to send a sick Aruban child to Disney World with his mot h er as part of the "Make a wish Foundation".

Aruba also thanks Posner for opening doors to potential new guest by making travel easier. He was directly responsible for bringing United Airlines to Aruba. Untied Airlines provides Aruba with 40,000 tourists and 300,000 hotel rooms annually.
Posner received no payment for his services and was awarded the distinction of "Aruba's Goodwill Ambassador".

Posner's contributions to Aruba's economy have been significant and greatly appreciated by the people. Besides all of humanitarian acts of kindness, he is also greatly appreciated for taking the reigns of failing bus inesses where no one else would and developing them into successful entities.
525 on: March 31, 2008, 07:00:13 PMhttp://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg369659

Bump

But Michael Posner was a convicted felon who had served prison time.
He should not have been allowed on the island, let alone start a business.
Who arranged all of the business dealings.  He also bought the Aloe business.

If it is true that there must be an Aruban partner to own a business on aruba, I'm thinking both CAPS and Kermit have been pointing us in that direction. Could paulass be the silent partner or in his role with contracts did he set it up for posner? If so, that could explain why pvds/jvds are so protected jmoo

Hi Bill and other Monkeys,
I was thinking it is possible to be Paulus also, which would explain a lot of what we considered strange happenings from the beginning, such as Joran being in the casinos gambling and drinking since he was what, age 14 or 15?   This could explain how Paulus and Joran seem to be treated as VIP at the casino, and maybe where alot of their cash flow comes from, and why it seems it is so difficult to see the clear videos of Paulus from when we think he was chatting with Natalee at the blackjack table.  Just something to ponder on and MOO of course.

Klowe

Klowe,
Hi to you too....
I just noticed your post and wanted to acknowledge it, so as not to come across rude
I only have a sec now, will check back later....

[Keepthefaith]

This is so cool.  Look at the post cards that can be bought.....
Clinton:      http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=826&srctype=products_detail
Billy Graham:        http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=823&srctype=products_detail

She didn't say she TOOK the pictures!  What is your point other than to say you don't believe Kermit? Why don't just say it? 

OK......it's said.  and I didnt say she took the pictures.

What leads you to believe Kermit is not telling the truth?

[klaasend]

Greta had JQK on the show.  JQK plans on being in Aruba the first of January to make sure they have all Greta's information and to make sure they do what they say their going to do.  Said there needs to be transparency.

[hotping]

Greta had JQK on the show.  JQK plans on being in Aruba the first of January to make sure they have all Greta's information and to make sure they do what they say their going to do.  Said there needs to be transparency.

Thanks Klaas... This is Great News! 

[Edward]

I forgot to include Dutch politicians, and business people as among those that may travel to Aruba to launder money.  Money has to find it's way to secret bank accounts in some manner...I've often wondered how.

Perhaps the casinos are used to fund bank accounts hidden from the Dutch/Euro/American taxman?

jmho

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba
From 1997

<snip>

(snipped by WG for space)

That was an interesting file.  I never found any related documents on the web. 

It's been over ten years.  I'm inclined to believe there has been a power shift on the island in favor of non-Mansurs.  I wonder if there is any investigation of Posner?  His current business?  Hi donations?  Purchase of businesses since tourism is down these past few years?

Might he or those affiliated with him own an increasing percentage of the island? 

What are the Chicago connections on the island?  Aruba the new Spain, Portugal, or Italy for the folks from Illinois and Holland?

Here is another related link:

http://tinyurl.com/5c2vtg

<snip>
Mansur Trading Company, which has revenues of about $ 100 million a year, was brought in 1996 by the president of the United States as the largest clan laundry in the region through the sale of Marlboro cigarettes, liquor, groceries and other operations of the free zone (Trading FreeZone), which controlled the island and through sde which carry containers loaded with cocaine.

<snip>
In laundering operations with money from Colombian drug traffickers, other companies of brothers Eric and Alex Mansur, indicted in Puerto Rico for money laundering: Trading FreeZone, Manimex, Marlex, Transimex, Mitan, Runam Holdings, DoubleTree Investments, CardGame Ltda, Pin Point Holdings, Satuma Brands, liqueurs and Aruba.


I haven't checked to see the official owners and officers of all of these companies yet.

Very interesting stuff..

first one: Marlex,
Marlex is a trademarked name for "crystalline polypropylene" and "high-density polyethylene" (HDPE). These plastics were invented by J. Paul Hogan and Robert Banks, two research chemists at the Phillips Petroleum company.

Marlex was used by Wham-O for their Hula Hoops in the 1950s, which helped create a market for this plastic. It is now used surgically as a reinforcing mesh in inguinal hernia repair.


Which is
Same company as Phillip Morris tobacco.

Right Up their ally



The most interesting thing was Josy saying he was Born in Aruba..
Which makes him an Aruban national citizen.
His holding Dutch citizenship is something I wonder about.
Also the amount of books he has written makes him a sort of genius. How Many people write Dictionaries ?
All very interesting

[texasmom]

Greta had JQK on the show.  JQK plans on being in Aruba the first of January to make sure they have all Greta's information and to make sure they do what they say their going to do.  Said there needs to be transparency.

Thanks Klaas!  I missed it, hubby's watching wrestling...YUCK!!!   

At least I got to listen to Dana!   

[Magnolia]

Tim Miller was on Birmingham local TV.  They said that he is
suffering from bleeding ulcers.  He looked very tired and thin.
Texas Equuasearch is looking for a missing 23 yr old girl in Homewood.
In an interview Tim said how important it is to find the body,
so that the family can lay their loved one to rest.

[Edward]

Posner..I thought he was connected to the Chicago outfit ?

[Tamikosmom]

She didn't say she TOOK the pictures!  What is your point other than to say you don't believe Kermit? Why don't just say it? 

I have posted along side of Kermit for 3 1/2 years and ... I have not reason to question his/her integrity. 

It is my understanding that Dave Holloway, Beth Holloway, the FBI and John Kelly have recently come into possession of the ROV images through those who have upheld the family since day one in their contention that a corrupt investigation has denied their beloved Natalee justice but ... Kyle's testimony regarding his concerns about the John Silvetti/ALE connection would be the icing on the cake.

My is also my understanding is that permission was received from Beth Holloway for those ROV images to be posted on the Scared Monkey forum.

Yap ... do you have information to the contrary.

Janet

______


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

oceanexploration: "Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal." 


oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.      The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

 
THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[Ono]

Greta had JQK on the show.  JQK plans on being in Aruba the first of January to make sure they have all Greta's information and to make sure they do what they say their going to do.  Said there needs to be transparency.

She deliberately credited Rudy Croes for calling for the investigation and said he would be a hero if this happens ... [ let's hope some flattery works ! ] ; JQK is not giving up ! 

[truthseeker2]

I would like to weigh in on the Kermit vs OE, if I may.

I believe the posts that Kermit brought over were actual posts made by OE.  While the full context of the posts were not brought over, I thought it was pretty clear what he was trying to communicate.

With that said, I have less issue with Kyle and his position than I do with the divers who were in the water to do the visual inspection.  Again, on 12/30/05 at 15:39 they give a thumbs down and at 15:40 we see a shot of what they had to be looking at when they gave a thumbs down.  If those were indeed human remains they were looking at, why the thumbs down?  Those are the people I most want to see answer questions.  Wasn't Tim Trahan one of those divers?  Was Eduardo Mansur one of those divers? (I'm not sure if Eduardo was one of the three that were looking into the cage on 12/30)

I do not disbelieve what Kermit is saying, but I also am not fully aware of what restraints may have been on OE.  If he was holding on to intellectual property as a contract employee, but shared that property with a proclamation that it was something specific, he could have a lot of legal problems if he turned out to be wrong.  In his defense, unless he was sure about his hunch, he was in a tough spot.  The guy as a family to think about.  And that is not to say that he does not care about Natalee's family.

As for the negotiations to get a documentary made, I don't know all the details about his role.  I saw the posts, but that does not tell me the motivation.  Was that the safest way to get them out?  If he was working as a go-between for the owner of the intellectual property and a network or independently produced show he would be in a position to get ALL of the images out without having to 'sneak' them out.

Disclaimer:
This is just my opinion and in no way is meant to conjure up hard feelings or incite a riot.   

[Keepthefaith]

This is so cool.  Look at the post cards that can be bought.....
Clinton:      http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=826&srctype=products_detail
Billy Graham:        http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=directory&view=products&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&xsearch_id=store_search&xsearch%5B0%5D=at+Nixon%5C%27s+Funeral&query=%28name.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral.or.description.like.at%20Nixon%27s%20Funeral%29&refno=823&srctype=products_detail

She didn't say she TOOK the pictures!  What is your point other than to say you don't believe Kermit? Why don't just say it? 

OK......it's said.  and I didnt say she took the pictures.

What leads you to believe Kermit is not telling the truth?

Hotshot?Please break it down as to why you don't believe,and or trust Kermit!

[texasmom]

Tim Miller was on Birmingham local TV.  They said that he is
suffering from bleeding ulcers.  He looked very tired and thin.
Texas Equuasearch is looking for a missing 23 yr old girl in Homewood.
In an interview Tim said how important it is to find the body,
so that the family can lay their loved one to rest.

Thanks Magnolia!  I'll continue to keep Tim in my prayers.  I don't think people realize how seriously he takes each and every missing persons case.  Some things he said tonight on Dana's show really made my heart go out to him.  He has a very difficult job, physically and mentally.  

[Ono]

Tim Miller was on Birmingham local TV.  They said that he is
suffering from bleeding ulcers.  He looked very tired and thin.
Texas Equuasearch is looking for a missing 23 yr old girl in Homewood.
In an interview Tim said how important it is to find the body,
so that the family can lay their loved one to rest.

I wondered what his health problem was...poor thing - the Anthonys have not really helped his health at all, imo.  His interview from B'ham that the Orlando tv affiliate carried online today regarding the Caylee situation was really detailed, honest, and excellent.

[truthseeker2]

Tim Miller was on Birmingham local TV.  They said that he is
suffering from bleeding ulcers.  He looked very tired and thin.
Texas Equuasearch is looking for a missing 23 yr old girl in Homewood.
In an interview Tim said how important it is to find the body,
so that the family can lay their loved one to rest.

This man is a Saint.  I hope he will take care of himself!

[yapperz1]

Tamikosmom posted:
<snip>
Yap ... do you have information to the contrary.

Janet

______


Janet, actually I do. I would rather not go in to it here. You are welcome to get my email address from Klaas.

[Keepthefaith]

Tamikosmom posted:
<snip>
Yap ... do you have information to the contrary.

Janet

______


Janet, actually I do. I would rather not go in to it here. You are welcome to get my email address from Klaas.

And?????

[klaasend]

Hiya Monkeys
Just gonna throw out my thoughts on Jossy never coming thru with extra info he says he has.
We have all heard that on Aruba if iino has been made public it can't be used in court. Maybe Jossy is keeping things close to the vest to make sure he can contribute the goods that can help bring down the corrupt bastards there. I would rather them be held & not revealed. I would prefer info that could indeed be used & not tossed out. I also feel the pics/screen caps from the Persistance should not have been posted without express consent from the family or FBI or whomever may have been investigating them. JMOO

It was the family (Robin) that allowed the original photos to be posted at BNH.  It was OE that shared the other photos.  Maybe your suggestion on not sharing those photos should be directed at Robin and OE. 

[MuffyBee]

Tamikosmom posted:
<snip>
Yap ... do you have information to the contrary.

Janet

______


Janet, actually I do. I would rather not go in to it here. You are welcome to get my email address from Klaas.

And?????

Are we welcome to get your email from Klaas too, so we can know?