Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[Tamikosmom]

There will be no CREDIBLE investigation -JQK is wasting his time. I HIGHLY doubt the "pond" will amount to squat. It is all delays and diversions.
I'm ready for "Shock and AWE".  Let it ALL hang out by exposing what WE know to the world. Let the chips fall where they may!

I've had it!!

 

Me too Wreck!!

It is my understanding that John Q. Kelly was recently the recipient of the ROV images.  Why is is not challenging Aruba in regards to the contents.  Apparently a piece of cloth was sent to the FBI for forensic testing ... a piece of cloth that Kyle Kingman ... the oceanographer aboard the Persistence ... does not believe came from the trap/cage.

Mr. Kelly ... the latest developments which are NOT development ... just flashbacks to 2005/2006 ... is another Dog and Pony Show.  Have you not learned ....

Janet

+++++++

John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
December 4, 2007

KELLY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him (Hans Mo) Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.

<snipped>

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html


KYLE KINGMAN - PERSISTENCE - OCEANOGRAPHER

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

[hotping]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

[Tamikosmom]

I firmly believe that justice for Natalee Holloway is not going to come out of Aruba.

The domino effect in regards to implication would be sooo far reaching.

Think about it.  There would be  those who participated in the events of the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... those in the Aruban/Dutch administration who were involved in the coverup and ... the sons of the elite and ... the judiciary and ... those involved in Aruba's underground economy ...

BOTTOM LINE:  The "powers that be" are not going to allow Aruba to be flushed down the toilet so that justice can prevail for one American citizen.

However ... there could be a measure of closure for the family if the contents of that cage/trap were Natalee Holloway's remains. This needs to be the focus of Kyle Kingman.  This needs to be the focus of the family.  This needs to be the focus of John Q. Kelly.  This needs to be the focus of the FBI.  This needs to be the focus of Monkeys.

Janet

+++++++


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

+++++++

[Buckeye]

I'm not quite sure what the hidey hole, people are waiting for.  If they think some secret, stealth, US group is going to ride in, with their info, and save the day, I believe they are mistaken.  If anyone has any info, it should be placed on the boards and disseminated.  This case would be no where if the internet had not been involved in the first place. Any group is going to have to report to Aruba and Aruba will decide....unless a stink can be raised that would rise to the caliber of "international".  Only things I can think of are trafficking or hate crimes.  I don't even think Aruba's Parliament has acknowledged the European Victim's Rights Act.  They are still into perpetrator rights.  The case will die with hidey hole secrets.

For the Dutch...What if the problem is not just the police?  What if the problem involves Justice and the political influence on Parliament and those that give direction to the prosecutor.  Who investigates when the Justice Department itself is suspected of wrongdoing?  Lets say they really thought R. Croes was out of line for not doing something three years ago.  Who is responsible for the checks and balances on Croes?  Parliament (which is MEP) ?? TIA

I like hearing every opinion.  I value everyone's posts.  There is different value to each one: some are grounding, some make me think, some make me glad I'm not crazy.....

O/T to Kermit....if you have any pull, please tell them that someone should have caught that second shoe....sheesh.....

[SS]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

[San]

I seriously doubt that there is any investigation going on in
Aruba.  Mos has issued a statement that the pond witness
had nothing new to offer.
Hero Brinkman said something to the effect that if a person
was honest when they went to Aruba, they were soon bought
off or corrupted in some way.
People who think they "know more" seem to think there are two
more witnesses.  I think they may have been led to believe
something that isn't true.

I agree Magnolia.  Was there really ever an investigation going on in this case.  The Media/Message Boards/Monkeys have been keeping this case in the news.  Aruba wants us to desperately to go away.

I don't care if they bring in 50 witnesses nothing will happend.

The only time something will happen is if a tape is found of what they did to Natalee.

I always believed there was a tape made by Joran, Kalpoes & Freddy.  Someone has it and one day it will get into the wrong hands if it hasn't already.  Then the world will know what happened.  But I still don't think they will prosecute them.

When the world finds out no one will want to ever travel there again.

JMO.

[Keepthefaith]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

Follow the money!How to expose the seedy underworld of Aruba?What buttons to push to get action?Who do we expose?Who are the 5 most powerful and influential people on the island?

[San]

I'm not quite sure what the hidey hole, people are waiting for.  If they think some secret, stealth, US group is going to ride in, with their info, and save the day, I believe they are mistaken.  If anyone has any info, it should be placed on the boards and disseminated.  This case would be no where if the internet had not been involved in the first place. Any group is going to have to report to Aruba and Aruba will decide....unless a stink can be raised that would rise to the caliber of "international".  Only things I can think of are trafficking or hate crimes.  I don't even think Aruba's Parliament has acknowledged the European Victim's Rights Act.  They are still into perpetrator rights.  The case will die with hidey hole secrets.

For the Dutch...What if the problem is not just the police?  What if the problem involves Justice and the political influence on Parliament and those that give direction to the prosecutor.  Who investigates when the Justice Department itself is suspected of wrongdoing?  Lets say they really thought R. Croes was out of line for not doing something three years ago.  Who is responsible for the checks and balances on Croes?  Parliament (which is MEP) ?? TIA

I like hearing every opinion.  I value everyone's posts.  There is different value to each one: some are grounding, some make me think, some make me glad I'm not crazy.....

O/T to Kermit....if you have any pull, please tell them that someone should have caught that second shoe....sheesh.....

Good Post Buckeye.

[hotping]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

SS...I in no way meant My Question about DEMAND to be Ugly....I just don't know how to find out where Natalee is.....Caps is doing work over there that We don't even know about....I'm sure of it because I believe in Him......Jossy probably knows things also but for whatever reason He and Caps both are not telling Us at this time.....I don't know what happened about Destiny's appeal...maybe if another Monkey knows they can tell Us........  

[truthseeker2]

I'm not quite sure what the hidey hole, people are waiting for.  If they think some secret, stealth, US group is going to ride in, with their info, and save the day, I believe they are mistaken.  If anyone has any info, it should be placed on the boards and disseminated.  This case would be no where if the internet had not been involved in the first place. Any group is going to have to report to Aruba and Aruba will decide....unless a stink can be raised that would rise to the caliber of "international".  Only things I can think of are trafficking or hate crimes.  I don't even think Aruba's Parliament has acknowledged the European Victim's Rights Act.  They are still into perpetrator rights.  The case will die with hidey hole secrets.

For the Dutch...What if the problem is not just the police?  What if the problem involves Justice and the political influence on Parliament and those that give direction to the prosecutor.  Who investigates when the Justice Department itself is suspected of wrongdoing?  Lets say they really thought R. Croes was out of line for not doing something three years ago.  Who is responsible for the checks and balances on Croes?  Parliament (which is MEP) ?? TIA

I like hearing every opinion.  I value everyone's posts.  There is different value to each one: some are grounding, some make me think, some make me glad I'm not crazy.....

O/T to Kermit....if you have any pull, please tell them that someone should have caught that second shoe....sheesh.....

Thanks for posting that.  Unfortunately, the tension in the cage has become taxing for some people.  And that is a shame.

[Magnolia]

BTW....I have five pictures of my late husband with Bill Clinton.
I got them out and looked today and I found Kermit in two of
them.
 

[Anna]

The only interest in this case at all seems to be from political infighting in Aruba and between the Arubans and the Dutch.  No one is doing one thing about bringing justice to Natalee or finding her remains, etc.

Even if there is an investigation into Croes and vd Straten and the roles each played in the beginning, how does that find Natalee?  It doesn't unless vd Straten were to confess to hiding her remains which I seriously doubt is going to happen.

We don't even know if Natalee's remains were in the fish trap or not but have really no way to verify that.  No one is listening to the alleged new witnesses, either.

So even if Rudy Croes is proven correct and vd Straten did have improper conversations with Paulus, what then?

Nothing, I think. 

And I don't know of any way to get things moving again as there is no interest in prosecuting anybody and Joran is not even within the reach of OM these days anyway.  I think Rudy Croes is just using this case now to score political points for his party and is angry that vd Straten said unflattering things about his Coast Guard.

And considering all the corruption, drugs and other scandals, the Dutch just want to be rid of the islands and this is not high on their lists of outrages. 

[San]

BTW....I have five pictures of my late husband with Bill Clinton.
I got them out and looked today and I found Kermit in two of
them.
 

Cool.  Don't send them to anyone.

[Keepthefaith]

Monkey's are frustrated.Rightfully so!We all stand for the girl........We hit a brick wall.Figure out how to go over it,around it,or maybe just bust through it.If nothing else continue to let the world know exactly what awaits them on Danger Island..Human trafficking,drug lords,money laundering,Mafia,Murder(That they WILL NOT INVESTIGATE),rape's,drug-smuggling,Pimps,Elders,as well as Police and a judicial system that does not care about anyone other then the DUTCH ELITE,if that's what you wanna call them....

[Tamikosmom]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

Follow the money!How to expose the seedy underworld of Aruba?What buttons to push to get action?Who do we expose?Who are the 5 most powerful and influential people on the island?

It doesn't matter.  From the Kalpoes up the chain of command ... they are are all connected in some respect.  It is a domino effect ... that allows the corruption to continue and ... justice to be allusive.  It is not about the rights that Natalee Holloway should have been afforded under the protective umbrella of Dutch law ... it is about covering one's own b--- by protecting another's b---.

The Aruban game is something akin to the game ... the serious game ... we all played with our siblings.  "If you tell on me ... I will tell on you".

Janet

+++++

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for April 6
updated 9:15 a.m. PT, Fri., April. 7, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE‘S MOTHER: What do you make of the fact that it‘s so strange that here‘s this guy (Boeti) who‘s his brother-in-law, Gerold Dompig? Isn‘t that weird to you, too, just that strange connection? And the fact—it was interesting. When we were down there, the authorities were sort of, like, Well, we can‘t really focus on him because of, basically, who he‘s connected to.

TWITTY: Well, you know, it‘s really not any stranger to me than it is that the Kalpoes are cousins of Gerold Dompig. So you know, they‘re all very connected on that island. It‘s hard to find someone who‘s not a relative or a cousin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/


On the Record w/ Greta
You Know You're Tired When...
Thursday, May 25, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN:  As most of you know, Guido Wever, age 19, was arrested in Holland last week in connection with Natalee Holloway's disappearance. He has been released. Here is a small news item: He is related to a frequent guest on our show — Arlene Ellis-Schipper. I was told they are cousins, but I don't know if that is first, second ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196974,00.html

[wreck]

I'm afraid Kermit is our only hope.

[Keepthefaith]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

Follow the money!How to expose the seedy underworld of Aruba?What buttons to push to get action?Who do we expose?Who are the 5 most powerful and influential people on the island?

It doesn't matter.  From the Kalpoes up the chain of command ... they are are all connected in some respect.  It is a domino effect ... that allows the corruption to continue and ... justice to be allusive.  It is not about the rights that Natalee Holloway should have been afforded under the protective umbrella of Dutch law ... it is about covering one's own b--- by protecting another's b---.

The Aruban game is something akin to the game ... the serious game ... we all played with our siblings.  "If you tell on me ... I will tell on you".

Janet

+++++

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for April 6
updated 9:15 a.m. PT, Fri., April. 7, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE‘S MOTHER: What do you make of the fact that it‘s so strange that here‘s this guy (Boeti) who‘s his brother-in-law, Gerold Dompig? Isn‘t that weird to you, too, just that strange connection? And the fact—it was interesting. When we were down there, the authorities were sort of, like, Well, we can‘t really focus on him because of, basically, who he‘s connected to.

TWITTY: Well, you know, it‘s really not any stranger to me than it is that the Kalpoes are cousins of Gerold Dompig. So you know, they‘re all very connected on that island. It‘s hard to find someone who‘s not a relative or a cousin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/


On the Record w/ Greta
You Know You're Tired When...
Thursday, May 25, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN:  As most of you know, Guido Wever, age 19, was arrested in Holland last week in connection with Natalee Holloway's disappearance. He has been released. Here is a small news item: He is related to a frequent guest on our show — Arlene Ellis-Schipper. I was told they are cousins, but I don't know if that is first, second ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196974,00.html

I hear ya Janet.That whole Island is Family..That's why i continue to be so curious as to how the Mansur family doesn't know all!

[WhiskeyGirl]

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

Charles is tied in with De Palm Tours...Posted something about that in Shango, may be a page back...but it isn't listed on his Chamber records either!

2NJS...They disappear when I try to copy them as well...there is a secret!

Charles Croes was born in New York.  His parents live in West Palm Beach,
Florida.  I seriously doubt that he has Aruban citizenship.
He is an American Traitor, along with Julia Renfro, Mark Pursell, and Posner.

I agree.  I hope they all burn hell.

Isn't that the picture of Julia with what some said was a "sunburn"?

[WhiskeyGirl]

It is called passive resistance.. It was used in world war 2 against a German group known as the Nazi.. Politics as usual in the Netherlands political system.
They are stalling you with no intention of doing a damn thing..They just want to wear us down over time..

I think this is another year end push to no where.  Make people think something is happening and it just fizzles out after the holiday.  Timing for all those important holiday getaways - spring break, summer vacations, etc.

[snoopy]

BTW....I have five pictures of my late husband with Bill Clinton.
I got them out and looked today and I found Kermit in two of
them.
 

That's awesome!  Like San says....don't send them to anyone.

Rock On!!