Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[San]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

That is truly an honor Magnolia.

[2NJSons_Mom]

BTW....I have five pictures of my late husband with Bill Clinton.
I got them out and looked today and I found Kermit in two of
them.
 

Cool.  Don't send them to anyone.

I second that...keep them seclured.

[SS]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Mags - that is so great.  Are you able to share what your late husband did?

[texasmom]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Thanks Magnolia, I'm relieved.  To have received such an honor, he must have been a great man.  I'm so sorry for your loss. 

[Tamikosmom]

I do not think we have to look further than the cage/trap forthe remains of Natalee Holloway unless a person steps forward to the FBI and/or Natalee's family and/or John Q. Kelly and clearly states where Natalee Holloway's remains can be located.  No crytic message to decipher.  No riddle to solve.

Does anybody have an open line of communication with Jossy?  It  would sure be interesting to know if his son led the Aruban dive team on the day that the contents were recovered and turned over the ALE unchallenged by John Silvetti who led the Persistence undertaking in the search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet
_______

KYLE - OCEANOGRAPHER - PERSISTENCE

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

WOOD: ... The reason this case could still be solved is because there are so many people involved in Natalee's disappearance and in the disposal of her body. When somebody talks, they're going to all go down. This is like a house of cards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

[San]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Mags - that is so great.  Are you able to share what your late husband did?

SS this is no disrespect towards you but I wouldn't share that information either.  At this point in time there are people reading and are looking for any information towards a certain person.

[Anna]

Tim has a bleeding ulcer and was just released from the hospital and is conducting a search in Birmingham.  He already went to Mos and Mos wouldn't even discuss this with him.

I have emailed Ann Angela at Mos' office several times but suddenly the last time, when I asked about the DEA agent, they wanted to know why I was asking and who I was (had already verified) and said they couldn't give out that information and to wait for press releases, etc.

I don't think anybody is really helping us or even trying to help us.  Remember when Jossy also said he would post the tape of Dompig saying all kinds of things then he only did a tiny bit of it and like the new witnesses, it went away as well.

[SS]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Mags - that is so great.  Are you able to share what your late husband did?

SS this is no disrespect towards you but I wouldn't share that information either.  At this point in time there are people reading and are looking for any information towards a certain person.

That's why I asked her if she was able to share.  The Kennedy Center is very involved in the Arts.  Just wondered if he was involved in the Arts and if Mags was able to share that information.  Sorry, if I offended anyone.

[Tamikosmom]

I do not think we have to look further than the cage/trap forthe remains of Natalee Holloway unless a person steps forward to the FBI and/or Natalee's family and/or John Q. Kelly and clearly states where Natalee Holloway's remains can be located.  No crytic message to decipher.  No riddle to solve.

Does anybody have an open line of communication with Jossy?  It  would sure be interesting to know if his son led the Aruban dive team on the day that the contents were recovered and turned over the ALE unchallenged by John Silvetti who led the Persistence undertaking in the search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet
_______

KYLE - OCEANOGRAPHER - PERSISTENCE

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

WOOD: ... The reason this case could still be solved is because there are so many people involved in Natalee's disappearance and in the disposal of her body. When somebody talks, they're going to all go down. This is like a house of cards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621

[San]

Tim has a bleeding ulcer and was just released from the hospital and is conducting a search in Birmingham.  He already went to Mos and Mos wouldn't even discuss this with him.

I have emailed Ann Angela at Mos' office several times but suddenly the last time, when I asked about the DEA agent, they wanted to know why I was asking and who I was (had already verified) and said they couldn't give out that information and to wait for press releases, etc.

I don't think anybody is really helping us or even trying to help us.   Remember when Jossy also said he would post the tape of Dompig saying all kinds of things then he only did a tiny bit of it and like the new witnesses, it went away as well.

I agree.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

It was a "secret" at the time, but it eventually leaked out.  Tim was at the meeting also, but he left when Mos wouldn't meet with them and he returned to the storm damage in Texas.

The secret...was it the initials?  Kermit alluded to them....where'd all this info come from, SS? 

[San]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Mags - that is so great.  Are you able to share what your late husband did?

SS this is no disrespect towards you but I wouldn't share that information either.  At this point in time there are people reading and are looking for any information towards a certain person.

That's why I asked her if she was able to share.  The Kennedy Center is very involved in the Arts.  Just wondered if he was involved in the Arts and if Mags was able to share that information.  Sorry, if I offended anyone.

SS you did not offend me.  I am just being careful for everyones sake.  I lost trust in certain people and feel they are here to hurt.  This is just my opinion and mine only.

[Magnolia]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Mags - that is so great.  Are you able to share what your late husband did?

He was honored for his contribution to Theater in America.
He was a good man.

[Keepthefaith]

Just another thing to keep in mind.San you may be able to find it better then i.Was looking for the post from Rob about Tj Ward and the tapes he had of witnesses that were sent to Greta and that if Greta wanted to talk Tj would go..

[SS]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

It was a "secret" at the time, but it eventually leaked out.  Tim was at the meeting also, but he left when Mos wouldn't meet with them and he returned to the storm damage in Texas.

The secret...was it the initials?  Kermit alluded to them....where'd all this info come from, SS? 

I don't have a link.  We were told on this forum at the time that a major person was present at the meeting.  I didn't know who it was, either, until the name was dropped in later discussions. 

[SS]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

Thanks Magnolia, I was thinking the same.

btw, great find on the pictures; please don't send them to anyone.

I wouldn't dream of sending the pictures to anyone.  Not to worry.
My husband was honored at the Kennedy Center.....that was one of them.

Mags - that is so great.  Are you able to share what your late husband did?

He was honored for his contribution to Theater in America.
He was a good man.

You must be very proud.

[San]

Just another thing to keep in mind.San you may be able to find it better then i.Was looking for the post from Rob about Tj Ward and the tapes he had of witnesses that were sent to Greta and that if Greta wanted to talk Tj would go..

Is this the post?

I spoke to TJ earlier and I know some were interested in what was happening with the post I made last week. Well, Greta has the tapes from the FBI informants that were turned over to TJ and Harold Copus when the FBI left Aruba. After last night's Brinkman high season wrecker I can understand that some of this stuff will be coming out in doses and some is much more important that others.

TJ was in Phoenix the last 5 days and is now home. If Greta or someone from her staff calls, TJ will go to Washington discuss what is on the tapes.

These tapes deal with Paulus and Colombian connections and a boat that came in to remove Natalee. That's pretty much all I know and I have never heard the tapes myself, just was TJ told me personally. I only know they exist and have for more than three years. If I knew more, I would tell you what I had heard. These informants were used by the FBI and I believe there could be something there, or the FBI would not have considered them credible and asked them to work with Ward and Copus. I understand there are four informants. I have no idea who they are or where they are from.

[KYcat]

Hi Monkeys, just breezing through.  I have been out of commission for a while.  Still lurked some but I don't know what the heck is going on.  Where is everybody?  What is this about a private forum?  I really am out of the loop.  Oh well, no worries.  I DO want to know where all that info is that we are waiting patiently for from CAPS and Jossy?????  Are we being led down another dead end path?

I just have one thing to say.  I stand with the FROG>>>>>>>>

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I remember Caps post about parts 3-4 & 5 to follow, but I
did not think that Jossy had said that.
I also remember Caps post about Me, J, W, and c's.
I don't remember about Jossy being at that meeting or deVries.
Where did that information come from.

It was a "secret" at the time, but it eventually leaked out.  Tim was at the meeting also, but he left when Mos wouldn't meet with them and he returned to the storm damage in Texas.

The secret...was it the initials?  Kermit alluded to them....where'd all this info come from, SS? 

I don't have a link.  We were told on this forum at the time that a major person was present at the meeting.  I didn't know who it was, either, until the name was dropped in later discussions. 

So you are saying it's was posted here, the secret, and I must have read it.....hmmmmm.

[Keepthefaith]

Just another thing to keep in mind.San you may be able to find it better then i.Was looking for the post from Rob about Tj Ward and the tapes he had of witnesses that were sent to Greta and that if Greta wanted to talk Tj would go..

Is this the post?

I spoke to TJ earlier and I know some were interested in what was happening with the post I made last week. Well, Greta has the tapes from the FBI informants that were turned over to TJ and Harold Copus when the FBI left Aruba. After last night's Brinkman high season wrecker I can understand that some of this stuff will be coming out in doses and some is much more important that others.

TJ was in Phoenix the last 5 days and is now home. If Greta or someone from her staff calls, TJ will go to Washington discuss what is on the tapes.

These tapes deal with Paulus and Colombian connections and a boat that came in to remove Natalee. That's pretty much all I know and I have never heard the tapes myself, just was TJ told me personally. I only know they exist and have for more than three years. If I knew more, I would tell you what I had heard. These informants were used by the FBI and I believe there could be something there, or the FBI would not have considered them credible and asked them to work with Ward and Copus. I understand there are four informants. I have no idea who they are or where they are from.

Yes! Thanx San.Just curious what Greta is going to do with those tapes??