Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[Kermit]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JANET

[Kermit]

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/



Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th


May 16 - Kyle posted: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body.
<snip>
The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond

John Silvetti's email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

JOHN SILVETTI TELLS CAPS THAT THE TRAP/CAGE IS A POSTOFFICE AND THE CAGE WAS EMPTY.
MARCH 3, 2008 – John Silvetti meets with CapsLockWizard

From an email sent from CapsLockWizard:
“Yes, We did have the meeting today. It was a long meeting and we are all set to start the process of a permit to drain. Witness will gave statement to Lawyer (Helen), Lawyer will motion to drain the pond to OM. If Motion denied, will go to media and expose more dirt. John knows everything now and he will stay behind to help and protect. John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull, but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken. He thinks also it is a postoffice. When I told him the story about the cage, he also understand now some things that he could not have question about. Like why is the Panter allways parked over the spot while there is notting anymore in he cage. The meeting end at 5:00 pm and was very good. About the Pipes. They will be checked. Also John thinks that the signs are there but need to drain the pond. Also Withness is 99% it was some one that came from the pond area that he saw, because it looks like a dutch man and was cover in mud from the chest down.”


Kyle stated: "This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage."

So if we look at Caps' email to Dave and then his posts, MUMinOhio is correct. Caps knew nothing and then he is somehow connected to a witness who magically appears and they go to John Silvetti and it turns John Silvetti from looking at the trap/cage and to looking at the pond, brings the witness to the states for a polygraph test and the evidence is gone from that trap/cage because no one knew except Kyle Kingman and that ROV unit that captured the last photos.
Meanwhile John Silvetti is trying to set up an office in Aruba. And so Aruba masterminded the diversion away from any thing about the person's remains inside that cage/trap in the ocean as well as Joran created a media stir with his sit-down Greta interview that he sold Natalee into sex slavery, then the attention turned to Rudy Croes statement Jan van der Straaten was involved in covering-up but that was also brought out in 2006 Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.
and now as Hero Brinkman pointed out, if he knew of this, why did he wait 3 1/2 years to say something about it?

No body - no case seems to have been the Aruba code word for CORRUPTION!

#1468 on: May 07, 2008, 05:28:28 AM  muminohio
When Caps first started posting in the forum he knew very little about the case, or so it appears from his early posts. He asked us about the family, the friends, the private plane and the pimps. He asked about the suspects and about the people such as Julia and others that continually misinformed us. He needed our help and knowledge with these pieces of the puzzle. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally have spent a lot of time and posts sharing any information I had or could find.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379700#msg379700


NOW LET'S FOLLOW CAPS, THE WITNESS/Shango/Simian, ARUBA COPS, KYLE KINGMAN and John Silvetti:

Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle said: "Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.


Kyle said: "- IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

- IF the detective knew the latitude, how did he come to this knowledge?

- Who else knew this information?


Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?


The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.


The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so CRYPTIC
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were BOTH exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- He was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)


- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

"Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.


it was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

[Kermit]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit ... quit hopping around and ... get right back here this minute!!!

Considering I am not into CAPS, Shango or Siamin ... it will take me some time and assistance to interpret what you are alluding to.  Tomorrow morning ... I have that time.

Thank you for everything.

Janet

[wreck]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

Once again, THANK-YOU, KERMIT!! 

[Keepthefaith]

God Bless Kermit!Have a feeling the Cage is gonna fill up quick;))))))))))))

[wreck]

Diversions, diversions, diversions! (where have I heard that the last few days??) 

[Keepthefaith]

Diversions, diversions, diversions! (where have I heard that the last few days??) 

I'm still waiting for an answer as to WHY some people don't believe,and or trust Kermit...

[Blue Moon]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

Kermit, is there anything we as a group can do without hurting whoever is investigating this?  Can we up this a level and make any difference at all or is it so out of control nothing we do would change it?  Thanks for all you do for Natalee and her family.

[Blonde]

Helen Lejuezr


Clyde

[Keepthefaith]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

Kermit, is there anything we as a group can do without hurting whoever is investigating this?  Can we up this a level and make any difference at all or is it so out of control nothing we do would change it?  Thanks for all you do for Natalee and her family.

I'm still wondering why there hasn't been a brighter light shown on Silvetti in regards to his actions,and or inactions for that matter?????

[wreck]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

Kermit, is there anything we as a group can do without hurting whoever is investigating this?  Can we up this a level and make any difference at all or is it so out of control nothing we do would change it?  Thanks for all you do for Natalee and her family.

That's the problem -- no one is investigating the pertinent item -- THE CAGE!  They are on the "pond witness" diversion. (Please tell me our FBI knows now what Kermit knows!)

[Keepthefaith]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

Kermit, is there anything we as a group can do without hurting whoever is investigating this?  Can we up this a level and make any difference at all or is it so out of control nothing we do would change it?  Thanks for all you do for Natalee and her family.

That's the problem -- no one is investigating the pertinent item -- THE CAGE!  They are on the "pond witness" diversion. (Please tell me our FBI knows now what Kermit knows!)

Remember the post by Rob?Wreck.It is a page or two back.I had San bring it forward.I wonder if what Tj Ward has regarding the Colombian witnesses has anyhting to do with the trap/postoffice??The Paulus/Colombian connection??

[klaasend]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

And I have said that Simian was indeed Clyde Burke, or at least that's what my research told me.

[truthseeker2]

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/



Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th


May 16 - Kyle posted: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body.
<snip>
The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond

John Silvetti's email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

JOHN SILVETTI TELLS CAPS THAT THE TRAP/CAGE IS A POSTOFFICE AND THE CAGE WAS EMPTY.
MARCH 3, 2008 – John Silvetti meets with CapsLockWizard

From an email sent from CapsLockWizard:
“Yes, We did have the meeting today. It was a long meeting and we are all set to start the process of a permit to drain. Witness will gave statement to Lawyer (Helen), Lawyer will motion to drain the pond to OM. If Motion denied, will go to media and expose more dirt. John knows everything now and he will stay behind to help and protect. John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull, but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken. He thinks also it is a postoffice. When I told him the story about the cage, he also understand now some things that he could not have question about. Like why is the Panter allways parked over the spot while there is notting anymore in he cage. The meeting end at 5:00 pm and was very good. About the Pipes. They will be checked. Also John thinks that the signs are there but need to drain the pond. Also Withness is 99% it was some one that came from the pond area that he saw, because it looks like a dutch man and was cover in mud from the chest down.”


Kyle stated: "This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage."

So if we look at Caps' email to Dave and then his posts, MUMinOhio is correct. Caps knew nothing and then he is somehow connected to a witness who magically appears and they go to John Silvetti and it turns John Silvetti from looking at the trap/cage and to looking at the pond, brings the witness to the states for a polygraph test and the evidence is gone from that trap/cage because no one knew except Kyle Kingman and that ROV unit that captured the last photos.
Meanwhile John Silvetti is trying to set up an office in Aruba. And so Aruba masterminded the diversion away from any thing about the person's remains inside that cage/trap in the ocean as well as Joran created a media stir with his sit-down Greta interview that he sold Natalee into sex slavery, then the attention turned to Rudy Croes statement Jan van der Straaten was involved in covering-up but that was also brought out in 2006 Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.
and now as Hero Brinkman pointed out, if he knew of this, why did he wait 3 1/2 years to say something about it?

No body - no case seems to have been the Aruba code word for CORRUPTION!

#1468 on: May 07, 2008, 05:28:28 AM  muminohio
When Caps first started posting in the forum he knew very little about the case, or so it appears from his early posts. He asked us about the family, the friends, the private plane and the pimps. He asked about the suspects and about the people such as Julia and others that continually misinformed us. He needed our help and knowledge with these pieces of the puzzle. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally have spent a lot of time and posts sharing any information I had or could find.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379700#msg379700


NOW LET'S FOLLOW CAPS, THE WITNESS/Shango/Simian, ARUBA COPS, KYLE KINGMAN and John Silvetti:

Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle said: "Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.


Kyle said: "- IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

- IF the detective knew the latitude, how did he come to this knowledge?

- Who else knew this information?


Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?


The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.


The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so CRYPTIC
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were BOTH exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- He was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)


- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

"Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.


it was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

If this cage/trap is used for a drug post office and has been used for that over the last 3 1/2 years...it is creepy as h3ll to think they did that with a body laying right there.

If true, ...  well, there are all kinds of creepy people in the world.

Sorry, but the thought of that happening just creeps me out.

If the trap was known as a post office is it possible that the diversion was the other way around?  Could the 'cop and brother' have been the diversion?

I'm not trying to stir up anything...just thinking and asking.

[Keepthefaith]

"So if we look at Caps' email to Dave and then his posts, MUMinOhio is correct. Caps knew nothing and then he is somehow connected to a witness who magically appears and they go to John Silvetti and it turns John Silvetti from looking at the trap/cage and to looking at the pond, brings the witness to the states for a polygraph test and the evidence is gone from that trap/cage because no one knew except Kyle Kingman and that ROV unit that captured the last photos."

What is the implication of this?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Posted by: Kermit    Posted on: Today at 03:17:24 PM

Kyle stated: "This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage."

Could this be a bit of wishful thinking?  I keep in mind the picture Joran paid to have photoshopped in 2005.  The one where he and Natalee are together at some party.  I think a person could rotate and scale that image of Joran and it would fit the stuff in the trap too.  I am reasonable certain that Joran, is somewhere else, not the cage.  Doesn't rule out Natalee remains, but the logic is a bit off-jmho

NOW LET'S FOLLOW CAPS, THE WITNESS/Shango/Simian, ARUBA COPS, KYLE KINGMAN and John Silvetti:

Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

Was that a post office?  Perhaps many knew of it's existence?  If someone knew the location, what does the radar record show?  How often was it visited and by whom?

How does someone find something in the ocean?  Directional sign?  Coordinates?  Maybe repeated visits as shown on radar?

Was it used since Natalee disappeared?  Perhaps there are witnesses?

Is the cage something that would have been raised and lowered?  Divers sent down?  Any cell activity from out there in the ocean?

I also remember stories on the blogs about early interviews/talks with  local boat people.  There was a rumor/knowledge that she was disposed of in the ocean.  The rumors were discredited.  I have to wonder at this point, who were those people on the island that these stories came from? 

What of the fishermen witnesses?  Did anyone ask them if they were on the beach the following nights in June 2005?  Anyone look for witnesses those following nights?  The night the power went out on the island?

If JVDS spent the nights at the ISA, is it possible that remains or other evidence were stored there?  The ISA is no longer at that location.  Was it torn down?  Destroyed?  Any cell/phone  activity from that area?  Witnesses?

JMHO

[Tamikosmom]

I hope the information helps in some way to bring Natalee home to her mother and father.
G_d bless you all.
G_d bless Natalee.

Kermit, is there anything we as a group can do without hurting whoever is investigating this?  Can we up this a level and make any difference at all or is it so out of control nothing we do would change it?  Thanks for all you do for Natalee and her family.

I'm still wondering why there hasn't been a brighter light shown on Silvetti in regards to his actions,and or inactions for that matter?????

Keepthefaith

It is my understanding that Dave, Beth, the FBI and John Q. Kelly have recently been sent the ROV images.  However ... without Kyle Kingman stepping forward and revealing all he knows encompassing the John Silvetti/ALE connection regarding the chain of custody of the contents of the cage/trap ... closure for the family will remain elusive.

I pray that Kyle Kingman has a change of heart and does what is right ... for the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway and ... for his own peace of mind and ... let the chips fall where they may.  It is never wrong to do right.

Also ... Jossy Mansur should be approached and questioned if his son was present in the crucial dives ... discovery, sampling and recovery of the contents of the trap/cage.

DAAAANA!!!!

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

oceanexploration: "Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal." 


oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.      The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

 
THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[Keepthefaith]

Where do we stand with Caps??

[Keepthefaith]

Where do we stand with Caps??

This is for you Janet!