Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[klaasend]

I've done better lately at not commenting on all of this, but a few thoughts just won't leave me, so I'm going to put them out there.


1.  People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.  Any member of any group, private or public, that is at all concerned with who gets the "credit" if this case is ever solved has completely forgotten why they got involved in the first place. 

2.  It seems to me that some posters are "innocently" asking questions in this public forum that they already know the answers to from a private forum.  Whether this is happening in an effort to clear things up further, or to "trap" others with their answers, I do not know.  I do know it's distracting. [See 1.]

3.  Anyone - and I do mean anyone - who is more concerned with cliques, credit, a sense of self-importance, or any issue other than Justice for Natalee and Peace for her Family should take a break from this case for the sake of the Natalee and her family.  Think about it.  It's never been about us.  Attorneys don't need internet groups to do their work for them.  Yes - you might get lucky and help with a piece of information - but does anyone actually believe that JQK does not have the resources to bring to bear on this case what he can/needs to as things progress?  He wouldn't have taken the case and Beth wouldn't have hired him otherwise.

4.  Kermit - Thank you for your service to our country.  I mean it, Thank You.  Thank you for your sacrifice, your dedication, and your hard work throughout the course of your career.  Every president we elect is my president.  Thanks also on behalf of my 12 year old daughter for continuing to break down and hold open the doors for women to advance professionally.  Equality is still elusive, but you've made lasting contributions and that should also be acknowledged.

JMO

My whole problem with private forums is -- "who and why do you trust". I think people get flattered and go in blindly following those that "asked them". People here are sincerley wanting to help -- just too trusting in my opinion. I won't give my phone # to anyone I have not met in person.

A rule I have tried to live by and regretted the couple times I didn't.

[klaasend]

I will say this re private forums:
people can be duped into joining ... as I was

we were "reruited" from various NH sites

hindsight being 20/20,
I'm pretty sure the sales pitches
were tailored to each individual

mine followed along the lines of
"no idle chit chat/purely research" and
"open forums do the work for defense attys"
(ie: tipping them to everything discovered)

we were encouraged to choose partners
and research certain topics or persons
on an as-needed/as-asked basis

I met finbar there/some members post here now

human nature being what it is:
turns out there was a group-within-the-group
(unknown to most of us, AFAIK)
which summarized everyone's work
and passed it along to factions w/in the H/T families
(while claiming credit for the research)

then the site closed w/ literally a few hours notice
and all of our research poofed ... or so they tell me

live/learn, I guess 

Yes it happens like this time and time again.  Sad for those not in the super secret areas of such private forums.

[BUCKSHOT]

Anyone else think the heated discussions of private forum/open forum sound like first graders on a playground? Let's collectively move on...Kiss and make up...

We have some further investigations to do...

[Lifesong]

My whole problem with private forums is -- "who and why do you trust". I think people get flattered and go in blindly following those that "asked them". People here are sincerley wanting to help -- just too trusting in my opinion. I won't give my phone # to anyone I have not met in person.

A rule I have tried to live by and regretted the couple times I didn't.

I agree, Wreck.  I probably should have clarified, anyone asked to join a "special, private" research group would predictably be flattered and jump at the chance to contribute in what they believed to be a meaningful way.  IMO, that's the simple manipulation involved.  It's how I ended up the PTA Fundraising Chair at my kids' elementary school years ago.  If I had only known! 

Klaas - Agree there also.  There are people I do know in person I still won't give my phone number to!  

[Helen Back]

I've done better lately at not commenting on all of this, but a few thoughts just won't leave me, so I'm going to put them out there.


1.  People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.  Any member of any group, private or public, that is at all concerned with who gets the "credit" if this case is ever solved has completely forgotten why they got involved in the first place. 

2.  It seems to me that some posters are "innocently" asking questions in this public forum that they already know the answers to from a private forum.  Whether this is happening in an effort to clear things up further, or to "trap" others with their answers, I do not know.  I do know it's distracting. [See 1.]

3.  Anyone - and I do mean anyone - who is more concerned with cliques, credit, a sense of self-importance, or any issue other than Justice for Natalee and Peace for her Family should take a break from this case for the sake of the Natalee and her family.  Think about it.  It's never been about us.  Attorneys don't need internet groups to do their work for them.  Yes - you might get lucky and help with a piece of information - but does anyone actually believe that JQK does not have the resources to bring to bear on this case what he can/needs to as things progress?  He wouldn't have taken the case and Beth wouldn't have hired him otherwise.

4.  Kermit - Thank you for your service to our country.  I mean it, Thank You.  Thank you for your sacrifice, your dedication, and your hard work throughout the course of your career.  Every president we elect is my president.  Thanks also on behalf of my 12 year old daughter for continuing to break down and hold open the doors for women to advance professionally.  Equality is still elusive, but you've made lasting contributions and that should also be acknowledged.

JMO

My whole problem with private forums is -- "who and why do you trust". I think people get flattered and go in blindly following those that "asked them". People here are sincerley wanting to help -- just too trusting in my opinion. I won't give my phone # to anyone I have not met in person.

A rule I have tried to live by and regretted the couple times I didn't.

Ummmmmm, mine could use some help.   

Morning monkeys.

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkeys.

BRRRRR.  Hubby and I have just returned from an early morning walk with our 15 year old Golden Retriever Brandi. It is very chilly in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.  Our below freezing temperatures that we have been experiencing for about a week finally warmed up.  The snow that began yesterday is thishigh and ... schools have been cancelled.  Thankfully the roads in our area were ploughed yesterday which made our walk possible.

Have a good day all.

Janet
8:12 AM PT

[Magnolia]

I've done better lately at not commenting on all of this, but a few thoughts just won't leave me, so I'm going to put them out there.


1.  People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.  Any member of any group, private or public, that is at all concerned with who gets the "credit" if this case is ever solved has completely forgotten why they got involved in the first place. 

2.  It seems to me that some posters are "innocently" asking questions in this public forum that they already know the answers to from a private forum.  Whether this is happening in an effort to clear things up further, or to "trap" others with their answers, I do not know.  I do know it's distracting. [See 1.]

3.  Anyone - and I do mean anyone - who is more concerned with cliques, credit, a sense of self-importance, or any issue other than Justice for Natalee and Peace for her Family should take a break from this case for the sake of the Natalee and her family.  Think about it.  It's never been about us.  Attorneys don't need internet groups to do their work for them.  Yes - you might get lucky and help with a piece of information - but does anyone actually believe that JQK does not have the resources to bring to bear on this case what he can/needs to as things progress?  He wouldn't have taken the case and Beth wouldn't have hired him otherwise.

4.  Kermit - Thank you for your service to our country.  I mean it, Thank You.  Thank you for your sacrifice, your dedication, and your hard work throughout the course of your career.  Every president we elect is my president.  Thanks also on behalf of my 12 year old daughter for continuing to break down and hold open the doors for women to advance professionally.  Equality is still elusive, but you've made lasting contributions and that should also be acknowledged.

JMO

My whole problem with private forums is -- "who and why do you trust". I think people get flattered and go in blindly following those that "asked them". People here are sincerley wanting to help -- just too trusting in my opinion. I won't give my phone # to anyone I have not met in person.

Shoot, I can't remember my phone number half the time. 

[wreck]

Well, what do we do with Kermit's information? Kermit says she has given it to the FBI AND the family. I'm not sure as to what we here are supposed to do with this information. Kermit, what do you want/need US to do?? Are you confident that things are being done in the background (and I don't mean private forums!)?

[crazybabyborg]

Morning Monkeys!

I read and read and read last night in the prior and this thread, until 5:00am. When I finally caught up, I didn't know what to post. Now, because of the discussion this morning, I do.

I have never attempted to participate in any other forum. Somebody always brought over information that was useful and I always trusted the monkey doing the transfer; Klaas seemed to be the main one and Lord knows, I trust her!

I do have a good sense of the common purpose that has always brought this unique group of posters together and what has kept us here. The single reason why that common purpose has been preserved is because of Klaas' and Red's judgement when it comes to identifying the source that veers from that purpose, and acting to purge the forum from the disruption. I've actually kidded Klaas about knowing before she does whose "posting life" is short.

There's always been lots of different OPINIONS, AREAS OF INTEREST, APPROACHES, and SKILLS. It makes for a wonderful contribution toward:
ONE PURPOSE .

When a poster's purpose is not born in compassion and focused on justice for Natalee and her family, they simply don't last long.

I believe there has been an orchestrated effort to bring a different purpose to Scared Monkeys. I believe, just by viewing the results, that whatever a laughably "private" forum's purposes are or was, that disrupting Scared Monkeys was among them.

Personally, I appreciate Kermit's efforts and know the frog belongs here. Personally, I am very frustrated at the cryptic innuendo's of other posters. Natalee and her family deserve better, and I'd prefer that anyone who takes the stance that "I know big stuff, let me drop a hint" just go away. If they can't step up for what's right and speak plainly because it's the right thing to do, then they are as bad as those who have covered up the crimes committed on the Holloway/Twitty family. That's my opinion.

I wanted to post this because I wanted to suggest that those who are discouraged just watch it play out. I trust Klaas; her record is impeccable. The truth has a way of bubbling up through the mire, and she holds the shovel to toss out the bottom sludge.

Until Natalee's case has been closed with some semblance of justice, we'll be here. At the end, those who will join hands as we watch it happen will be of like heart. I'm so honored to have a place among you!

{{HUGS, MONKEYS!}}

[Blue Moon]

Morning Monkeys!

I read and read and read last night in the prior and this thread, until 5:00am. When I finally caught up, I didn't know what to post. Now, because of the discussion this morning, I do.

I have never attempted to participate in any other forum. Somebody always brought over information that was useful and I always trusted the monkey doing the transfer; Klaas seemed to be the main one and Lord knows, I trust her!

I do have a good sense of the common purpose that has always brought this unique group of posters together and what has kept us here. The single reason why that common purpose has been preserved is because of Klaas' and Red's judgement when it comes to identifying the source that veers from that purpose, and acting to purge the forum from the disruption. I've actually kidded Klaas about knowing before she does whose "posting life" is short.

There's always been lots of different OPINIONS, AREAS OF INTEREST, APPROACHES, and SKILLS. It makes for a wonderful contribution toward:
ONE PURPOSE .

When a poster's purpose is not born in compassion and focused on justice for Natalee and her family, they simply don't last long.

I believe there has been an orchestrated effort to bring a different purpose to Scared Monkeys. I believe, just by viewing the results, that whatever a laughably "private" forum's purposes are or was, that disrupting Scared Monkeys was among them.

Personally, I appreciate Kermit's efforts and know the frog belongs here. Personally, I am very frustrated at the cryptic innuendo's of other posters. Natalee and her family deserve better, and I'd prefer that anyone who takes the stance that "I know big stuff, let me drop a hint" just go away. If they can't step up for what's right and speak plainly because it's the right thing to do, then they are as bad as those who have covered up the crimes committed on the Holloway/Twitty family. That's my opinion.

I wanted to post this because I wanted to suggest that those who are discouraged just watch it play out. I trust Klaas; her record is impeccable. The truth has a way of bubbling up through the mire, and she holds the shovel to toss out the bottom sludge.

Until Natalee's case has been closed with some semblance of justice, we'll be here. At the end, those who will join hands as we watch it happen will be of like heart. I'm so honored to have a place among you!

{{HUGS, MONKEYS!}}

You are so sweet-I couln't have said it better.  I am honored also to be a part of this.

[johan555]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

[wreck]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

What if you are looking at the BACK of the skull??

[Edward]

Looks like sun glasses to me.. 

[wreck]

Looks like sun glasses to me.. 

[johan555]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

What if you are looking at the BACK of the skull??

No what you see is also not the back of a skull,i have about 50 underwater skull pics here .

[wreck]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

What if you are looking at the BACK of the skull??

No what you see is also not the back of a skull,i have about 50 underwater skull pics here .

Tim Miller of Equisearch said after viewing LIVE pics of the cage: 'sure looks like a skull to me'! He has seen MANY in all types of conditions.

[johan555]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

What if you are looking at the BACK of the skull??

No what you see is also not the back of a skull,i have about 50 underwater skull pics here .

Tim Miller of Equisearch said after viewing LIVE pics of the cage: 'sure looks like a skull to me'! He has seen MANY in all types of conditions.

That was my first impression also but what you see on the original pic is finaly not the back of a skull.
So it is also not the front because you don't see the black eye/ nose holes .

[wreck]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

What if you are looking at the BACK of the skull??

No what you see is also not the back of a skull,i have about 50 underwater skull pics here .

Tim Miller of Equisearch said after viewing LIVE pics of the cage: 'sure looks like a skull to me'! He has seen MANY in all types of conditions.

That was my first impression also but what you see on the original pic is finaly not the back of a skull.
So it is also not the front because you don't see the black eye/ nose holes .

How do you KNOW it is not the back of the skull? Besides, I don't think THIS pic is clear enough to determine ANYTHING -- JMO

[johan555]

I found out that there is "something " in the cage but it is not a skull .
I found a pic (skull) and that one was also found in the ocean .
You clearly see the black holes > eyes and nose holes .

What if you are looking at the BACK of the skull??

No what you see is also not the back of a skull,i have about 50 underwater skull pics here .

Tim Miller of Equisearch said after viewing LIVE pics of the cage: 'sure looks like a skull to me'! He has seen MANY in all types of conditions.

That was my first impression also but what you see on the original pic is finaly not the back of a skull.
So it is also not the front because you don't see the black eye/ nose holes .

How do you KNOW it is not the back of the skull? Besides, I don't think THIS pic is clear enough to determine ANYTHING -- JMO

Because the back of a skull has another shape

[Anna]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?