Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[johan555]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

[wreck]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

I think water temperature would cause great variations of how a skull was preserved. I just think that you cannot tell for sure from the pics we have seen. Again, an EXPERT saw the cage in LIVE shots and was "99.7% certain" he was seeing a skull.

[Magnolia]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

That was my thought, Anna.  Could even be crabs or any kind of
sea creature.

[johan555]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

this one also

[Edward]

A round rock used to hold something down ?

[texasmom]

Sorry if this is OT, but I've got to get back to work.  I've just been catching up during my lunch.  A couple of posts I read really stood out to me, Lifesong's and CBB's come to mind.  I hope everyone knows what my purpose here is.  I only want the answers to Natalee's disappearance, and to see her returned to her family.  Justice for her and her family would be the icing on that cake.  I am certainly having my doubts about some that have come here and I've trusted, believing that they genuinely wanted to help find the answers for Natalee and her family.  I still hope that it's not as bad as it might seem right now in regards to that.  Time will tell.  I have been a part of other forums.  This was the first right after Natalee's disappearance, and I hope I'll still be here when we all know all the answers.  It is by far the best forum that I've ever participated in, and I'm very grateful to Red, Klaas, Dugga, and all the other mods and behind the scenes people that make it possible.  

[johan555]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

I think water temperature would cause great variations of how a skull was preserved. I just think that you cannot tell for sure from the pics we have seen. Again, an EXPERT saw the cage in LIVE shots and was "99.7% certain" he was seeing a skull.

in my opinion said tim :  'sure looks like a skull to me'!  is that 99.7 % ?

[johan555]

Hay TM 

[wreck]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

I think water temperature would cause great variations of how a skull was preserved. I just think that you cannot tell for sure from the pics we have seen. Again, an EXPERT saw the cage in LIVE shots and was "99.7% certain" he was seeing a skull.

in my opinion said tim :  'sure looks like a skull to me'!  is that 99.7 % ?

He said both. He told Dave Holloway he was 99.7% sure they had found Natalee. No offense, I take someone's word who does this professiionally over someone looking at low-res pics.

[johan555]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

I think water temperature would cause great variations of how a skull was preserved. I just think that you cannot tell for sure from the pics we have seen. Again, an EXPERT saw the cage in LIVE shots and was "99.7% certain" he was seeing a skull.

in my opinion said tim :  'sure looks like a skull to me'!  is that 99.7 % ?

He said both. He told Dave Holloway he was 99.7% sure they had found Natalee. No offense, I take someone's word who does this professiionally over someone looking at low-res pics.

So you tell me now that what tim saw were high resolution pics ?
It was video and the pics we have are screenshots of that video
jmo

[Tamikosmom]

Tim Miller of Equisearch said after viewing LIVE pics of the cage: 'sure looks like a skull to me'! He has seen MANY in all types of conditions.

When the John Silvetti/ALE connection is considered ... it is not difficult to understand why Tim Miller had become a liability.

Janet

+++++++

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


JOHN SILVETTI

KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

[bastibro]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

I think water temperature would cause great variations of how a skull was preserved. I just think that you cannot tell for sure from the pics we have seen. Again, an EXPERT saw the cage in LIVE shots and was "99.7% certain" he was seeing a skull.

in my opinion said tim :  'sure looks like a skull to me'!  is that 99.7 % ?

He said both. He told Dave Holloway he was 99.7% sure they had found Natalee. No offense, I take someone's word who does this professiionally over someone looking at low-res pics.

So you tell me now that what tim saw were high resolution pics ?
It was video and the pics we have are screenshots of that video
jmo

The skull was not the only thing in the cage Johan.
I found this pic very convincing(the hip socket)



I`m sure a skull would be, like Anna and Magnolia said, filled with coral, barnacles or sponges.

[klaasend]

Some photos of skulls under water:

[2NJSons_Mom]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

That thought crossed my mind, too, Anna. 

[wreck]

What if the eye sockets and nose hole filled in with coral, barnacles or sponges growing inside the skull?

I don't think so because all the (underwater)  skulls i found are clean like the last pic.

I think water temperature would cause great variations of how a skull was preserved. I just think that you cannot tell for sure from the pics we have seen. Again, an EXPERT saw the cage in LIVE shots and was "99.7% certain" he was seeing a skull.

in my opinion said tim :  'sure looks like a skull to me'!  is that 99.7 % ?

He said both. He told Dave Holloway he was 99.7% sure they had found Natalee. No offense, I take someone's word who does this professiionally over someone looking at low-res pics.

So you tell me now that what tim saw were high resolution pics ?
It was video and the pics we have are screenshots of that video
jmo

No, I think Tim saw pretty much what we saw in the pics -- but, probably much clearer.
I really don't see much point in arguing, I guess we can just disagree.

[Magnolia]

Janet, I know you will have this right at hand.....
Didn't Kyle say:   If it wasn't her, it was one of the biggest WTF
moments of my life......or something to that effect?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Johan555,

I appreciate that both you and Klaas found underwater pics of skulls for comparison....thank you both for bringing them forward. 

 

[hotping]

I'm thinking that We do not know for sure if the skull in the trap was underwater since June 2005 or if it was placed there some tme later and if was placed there at a later date then it would not look the same as if it had been there for 3 years....The timing would affect the look of the skull...JMHO 

[Magnolia]

It is starting to look like Wreck's family reunion in here.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, I know you will have this right at hand.....
Didn't Kyle say:   If it wasn't her, it was one of the biggest WTF
moments of my life......or something to that effect?

THE FABRIC

KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.