Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[BUCKSHOT]

Kermit,

Are there methods and/or angles for another (more honest) law enforcement agency (FBI) to assist, compliant with jurisdictional issues? Aruba has fought tooth and nail to keep others out of this investigation. Most countries would welcome help...

By the way, thank you for your most insightful information !!! I am "all ears" when you speak.

[texasmom]

Thank you Kermit!  I will be working on emails right away.

 

[Blue Moon]

Well, what do we do with Kermit's information? Kermit says she has given it to the FBI AND the family. I'm not sure as to what we here are supposed to do with this information. Kermit, what do you want/need US to do?? Are you confident that things are being done in the background (and I don't mean private forums!)?

Send emails to the Birmingham FBI office - attention Carmen S Adams, and copy those emails to our State Department in Washington
 
Include the pictures, and Kyle's words.
 
Plead with them to put pressure on Aruba, and more importantly on The Hague for answers.

It's about time. I was just getting ready to post if we want to start distributing these photo's and emails, info, etc gathered to WHO-Greta, Nancy, newspapers. Just did not know what to do.  Would Beth and Dave be against this and would we be hurting anything they are doing?

[Blue Moon]

Well, what do we do with Kermit's information? Kermit says she has given it to the FBI AND the family. I'm not sure as to what we here are supposed to do with this information. Kermit, what do you want/need US to do?? Are you confident that things are being done in the background (and I don't mean private forums!)?

Send emails to the Birmingham FBI office - attention Carmen S Adams, and copy those emails to our State Department in Washington
 
Include the pictures, and Kyle's words.
 
Plead with them to put pressure on Aruba, and more importantly on The Hague for answers.

WHAT IS THE EMAIL ADDRESS TO SEND TO?

[memphis]

Magnolia,

I've only been reading and trying to catch up since yesterday, so I may have missed some important tidbits, but there are only two conclusions that I can come to at this point.

The first is that what Kermit is saying is completely true. Meaning that the ALE had sole access to the remains in the trap and turned in bogus samples to the FBI; that the search team (Silvetti, Kyle) was crooked and acted illegally; that all hopes for Natalee's family to have closure may have been dashed.

The second option is that perhaps Kermit misinterpreted or misunderstood what was going on; that those involved with the search were on the up and up and finding Natalee was their focus; that those involved knew how ALE would handle the find (turn blood into chocolate) and retrieved proof that it was Natalee in the trap before the Aruba divers went down; that the remains were turned over to our FBI and for whatever purpose, this has been withheld from the public and from Aruba.

I know I'm probably not communicating this as well as I would like.

Kermit, is it possible that you misinterpreted something?

[Blue Moon]

O.K.  I am calling it a night (but before I do I have to post something so I can hit 1000 post mark  )

Thanks Kermit. I will set down and send a email.

Good night.

[Magnolia]

Special Agent in Charge
Carmen S. Adams

Assistant Special Agent in Charge
Charles E. Regan

Birmingham Division History
   Birmingham Division Contact Information
Address
1000 18th Street North
Birmingham, Alabama 35203
 
Telephone
(205)326-6166
 Facsimile
(205)279-1590
 
Email
General information: birmingham@ic.fbi.gov
Office Hours
8:15 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday
24 Hour Emergency Service

How to Report a Crime or Provide Information
For the location of a local FBI office, see our Jurisdiction page

An FBI representative can be reached 24 hours a day by calling (205)326-6166

If you have been the victim of a crime or have information relating to a crime, please contact your nearest FBI office. All complaints are confidential.

You can also email the Birmingham office at birmingham@ic.fbi.gov
 

[MuffyBee]

O.K.  I am calling it a night (but before I do I have to post something so I can hit 1000 post mark  )

Thanks Kermit. I will set down and send a email.

Good night.

Good night Blue Moon, and congrats on your first one thousand posts 

[wreck]

Special Agent in Charge
Carmen S. Adams

Assistant Special Agent in Charge
Charles E. Regan

Birmingham Division History
   Birmingham Division Contact Information
Address
1000 18th Street North
Birmingham, Alabama 35203
 
Telephone
(205)326-6166
 Facsimile
(205)279-1590
 
Email
General information: birmingham@ic.fbi.gov
Office Hours
8:15 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday
24 Hour Emergency Service

How to Report a Crime or Provide Information
For the location of a local FBI office, see our Jurisdiction page

An FBI representative can be reached 24 hours a day by calling (205)326-6166

If you have been the victim of a crime or have information relating to a crime, please contact your nearest FBI office. All complaints are confidential.

You can also email the Birmingham office at birmingham@ic.fbi.gov
 

Great work Magnolia, thanks!

[texasmom]

O.K.  I am calling it a night (but before I do I have to post something so I can hit 1000 post mark  )

Thanks Kermit. I will set down and send a email.

Good night.

Congrats on your 1000 Blue Moon Ky!  I hope you're feeling better!

Goodnight!   

[BUCKSHOT]

MumInOhio,
Your post was included, not to incriminate you or imply you were involved in any way, just more as your analysis was so right on, it was very good is all. Sorry if it offended you in any way. I just took notice of your post and put it in my post is all. Nothing more.


MuffyBee was correct. The use of G_d's name is respect in the Jewish religion. I use it always. Although, I am not Jewish.



SS,

croak

MumInOhio.
Any idea which post Kermit is referring to here?
BUCKSHOT

[texasmom]

There's also another email address for Carmen Adams at this site.  It's from a 2005 advisory board so I won't post the information in case it's obsolete.  But if we don't get anywhere with the other one, it might not hurt to try!

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/aln/lecc_advisory_board.html

[memphis]

OK, here is my crude attempt at copying an old post...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: private eye on December 30, 2007, 03:50:41 PM
This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

Quote from: klaasend on December 30, 2007, 04:00:18 PM
I would turn it over to the FBI and let the FBI deal with ALE.  I wouldn't risk it disappearing with ALE.

Quote from: private eye on December 30, 2007, 06:28:00 PM
I assume Beth has been given advice, which she is hopefully keeping to herself, but I tend to agree with you.

This tells me PI KNEW ABOUT THE TRAP on the December 30TH!!!! Klaas advised him NOT to trust ALE!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Right, Wreck, but in addition it seems to me that perhaps the family had been contemplating what they would do if she was found, and PI was throwing it out to us to see what we would say. My point being that the question of what to do if she is found was definately being discussed.

[truthseeker2]

I don't know how to "bring a post over".  I usually just copy and paste the test into the new thread.

I still don't know what to think about all of this.  I am still waiting for an answer to why we see a thumbs down at 15:39 on 12/30 and then a shot at 15:40 that could be human remains is seen.  Those divers had to be looking at the same thing we see in the shot at 15:30...so why thumbs down?  What did they see?  I pretty sure one of those divers is Tim Trahan.  If those were human remains...what should we think about Tim T.?

I don't know how to "bring a post over".  I usually just copy and paste the test into the new thread.

I still don't know what to think about all of this.  I am still waiting for an answer to why we see a thumbs down at 15:39 on 12/30 and then a shot at 15:40 that could be human remains is seen.  Those divers had to be looking at the same thing we see in the shot at 15:30...so why thumbs down?  What did they see?  I pretty sure one of those divers is Tim Trahan.  If those were human remains...what should we think about Tim T.?

Truthseeker, you still here? I'm slow at this.

One of Kyle's 'posts' said, "we sampled the cage". Those are bones bagged up. How can Tim Trahan just give a thumbs down and that be the end of it. I don't believe it. I also don't believe that those pictures were written off by Dave, Beth, Jug, etc. as nothing. No way.

I just hope that something bigger hasn't been compromised here.

Yeah, still here.  Just off doing some research.  Trying to follow the money.

I saw the post of Kyle's.  I would like to hear more about what was happening onboard the ship at 15:40.  Who saw that part of the ROV video on the monitors...60 seconds after the thumbs down?  Did the Dateline people see it?  Did Tim Miller see it?  If that really looked like human remains at that point, how could someone have not spoken up right then?

[wreck]

OK, here is my crude attempt at copying an old post...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: private eye on December 30, 2007, 03:50:41 PM
This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

Quote from: klaasend on December 30, 2007, 04:00:18 PM
I would turn it over to the FBI and let the FBI deal with ALE.  I wouldn't risk it disappearing with ALE.

Quote from: private eye on December 30, 2007, 06:28:00 PM
I assume Beth has been given advice, which she is hopefully keeping to herself, but I tend to agree with you.

[/color]
I THINK THIS IS REALLY PERTINENT -- PI KNEW ABOUT THE REMAINS BEING FOUND ON DEC 30TH!!

[memphis]

OK, here is my crude attempt at copying an old post...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: private eye on December 30, 2007, 03:50:41 PM
This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

Quote from: klaasend on December 30, 2007, 04:00:18 PM
I would turn it over to the FBI and let the FBI deal with ALE.  I wouldn't risk it disappearing with ALE.

Quote from: private eye on December 30, 2007, 06:28:00 PM
I assume Beth has been given advice, which she is hopefully keeping to herself, but I tend to agree with you.

[/color]
I THINK THIS IS REALLY PERTINENT -- PI KNEW ABOUT THE REMAINS BEING FOUND ON DEC 30TH!!

YES YES YES!
He knew. They had a plan. They knew ALE turns blood into chocolate.

[memphis]

I don't know how to "bring a post over".  I usually just copy and paste the test into the new thread.

I still don't know what to think about all of this.  I am still waiting for an answer to why we see a thumbs down at 15:39 on 12/30 and then a shot at 15:40 that could be human remains is seen.  Those divers had to be looking at the same thing we see in the shot at 15:30...so why thumbs down?  What did they see?  I pretty sure one of those divers is Tim Trahan.  If those were human remains...what should we think about Tim T.?

I don't know how to "bring a post over".  I usually just copy and paste the test into the new thread.

I still don't know what to think about all of this.  I am still waiting for an answer to why we see a thumbs down at 15:39 on 12/30 and then a shot at 15:40 that could be human remains is seen.  Those divers had to be looking at the same thing we see in the shot at 15:30...so why thumbs down?  What did they see?  I pretty sure one of those divers is Tim Trahan.  If those were human remains...what should we think about Tim T.?

Truthseeker, you still here? I'm slow at this.

One of Kyle's 'posts' said, "we sampled the cage". Those are bones bagged up. How can Tim Trahan just give a thumbs down and that be the end of it. I don't believe it. I also don't believe that those pictures were written off by Dave, Beth, Jug, etc. as nothing. No way.

I just hope that something bigger hasn't been compromised here.

Yeah, still here.  Just off doing some research.  Trying to follow the money.

I saw the post of Kyle's.  I would like to hear more about what was happening onboard the ship at 15:40.  Who saw that part of the ROV video on the monitors...60 seconds after the thumbs down?  Did the Dateline people see it?  Did Tim Miller see it?  If that really looked like human remains at that point, how could someone have not spoken up right then?

Kermit, can you answer this?

[memphis]

private eye on December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM
They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab:)

..........................................................................

The continued coverup by Aruba was anticipated.
 
After all of the effort and expense of the search, and after Aruba's actions were anticipated, am I to believe that the search was thwarted and Aruba suceeded in covering up once again?

[memphis]

Magnolia,

I've only been reading and trying to catch up since yesterday, so I may have missed some important tidbits, but there are only two conclusions that I can come to at this point.

The first is that what Kermit is saying is completely true. Meaning that the ALE had sole access to the remains in the trap and turned in bogus samples to the FBI; that the search team (Silvetti, Kyle) was crooked and acted illegally; that all hopes for Natalee's family to have closure may have been dashed.

The second option is that perhaps Kermit misinterpreted or misunderstood what was going on; that those involved with the search were on the up and up and finding Natalee was their focus; that those involved knew how ALE would handle the find (turn blood into chocolate) and retrieved proof that it was Natalee in the trap before the Aruba divers went down; that the remains were turned over to our FBI and for whatever purpose, this has been withheld from the public and from Aruba.

I know I'm probably not communicating this as well as I would like.

Kermit, is it possible that you misinterpreted something?

1250   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #709 12/30 « 

Quote from: private eye on December 31, 2007, 07:37:36 PM
I apologize for my last post, but the reality of that cage just hit me. I understand that Beth has reached a decision as to what she is going to do, and she is keeping it to herself. And I understand that she said that even that decision is subject to change. Not much info but I think that is the truth.

Quote from: Magnolia on December 31, 2007, 07:42:30 PM
You never know what you'll do until you are faced with the situation.
That is why it is so wrong to say "I would have done this or that."
You just don't know until the occassion arises.

Quote from: private eye on December 31, 2007, 07:44:53 PM
After all that has transpired, I can't believe I got ill looking at the cage of all things. 

[Magnolia]

The only email address that I can find for the State Department
is: www.state.gov
Maybe TM can find a better one.