Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[klaasend]

Good Morning -

Clyde Burke - he was discovered by Grande through a time line that included links to the actual PV's and the info contained within. That is a fact and one we can't deny. When Simian posted it was determined without a doubt that the info often came within thirty minutes of one of the suspects making a statement. We all know that. It's a very convincing case and how often has Grande been wrong? Not often, if ever. We all know Grande's track record.

Is Grande wrong? I'm not saying he is, but in order from Grande to be 100% correct you have to factor in some issues that most don't know about.

First, Clyde Burke would have had to hack Armin Solongier's email account and that means that Armin is telling the truth that he made only a few posts as Simian and Merian. It doesn't seem at all likely that someone could hack TWO SEPARATE SM USER ID'S / ACCOUNTS. This means that Armin starts two separate SM accounts and Clyde Burke some how accesses BOTH accounts all the while know that neither is directly connected to Armin. What are the chances of that happening? Armin admits he posted on both accounts. Both accounts came from the the EXACT SAME IP ADDRESS. In my opinion, there is no way that could all happen, unless Armin started the accounts AND TURNED THEM OVER TO CLYDE. It's a very very small chance, but one none the less.

Second, who fits the profile for Simian? A cop or a musician who works at a large bank in marketing? Armin's email address is connected directly to his love fer music and his band at the time. That email address was posted on Garage Bands dot com. This is all posted in the Shango / Simian threads. vms and I have developed an extensive amount of info that says without a doubt Armin is SIMIAN AND MERIAN. Armin uses a MAC and edited all of the videos from his band on that computer. Simian posted from a MAC. Armin is a literary buff and loves books, music and art. He is very talented, I know - cause I actually know him in REAL LIFE and I have told you all this before. At one time I considered him a good friend. I never thought he could be Simian or Merian until vms and I found A HUGE PILE OF PROOF. At each and every turn one link became two, two became four, four became eight. At some point, I just have to accept that where the info takes me. Armin tells you who he is in his posts and the person behind the keyboard fits like a glove. He is of french decent, highly educated, speaks many languages, and has a huge desire to protect Aruba. He tells you all who he is.

I'm not trying to get Armin in an uproar this morning, cause I know he'll read this, he reads everything. He googles his name and what we say pops up and he gets pissed. But the truth is the truth. We have been over all of this before and he wrote me an email after vms contacted him and he was quite pissy about the whole sordid affair. In his email, he admits that he POSTED AS SIMIAN AND MERIAN. But says that his accounts were hacked. I explained that above. vms, I'm sure will verify everything I have said about Armin. Like I said - THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH. If vms wants to post or repost all the info we have complied, I have no problem with that at all, I don't feeling doing it again cause it's all been covered and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt Armin is Simian. There is always the chance that Clyde and Armin are friends and Clyde related all the info directly to Armin and he then posted it as Simian. We ALL KNOW everyone knows everyone. Who wrote the posts - Armin did. I'm sure. How did Armin get the info - Maybe from Clyde - I'm not sure at all. vms and I have the info stored and if she wants to repost it, that's certainly fine with me. She has access to it all.

Also, not to take away from the others who helped compile info on Armin, you are not forgotten nor are your efforts.

and No, I still don't know who Shango is. I suspect he is from the Chemaly family and lived in Florida, near Jossy, but do not know fer sure. There are still too many unanswered questions here fer me and although others here have shared what they have found and the links, I'm still not totally convinced who he is.

Rob - Grande and I were working together on this.  Maybe you should ask Grande who determined that Simian way Clyde  

[klaasend]

And yes, I sill believe Simian is Clyde and not Armin.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle said:  "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed.  The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude.  Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money...  this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

<snipped>

Aruba Case Appears Stalled
ORANJESTAD, Aruba, June 12, 2005

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/10/national/main700829.shtml

[Magnolia]

I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.  I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter". So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.

That was a really tacky statement by Kyle, and if true, he couldn't
even do as advised......he still wrote the letter to Kermit.
 

[San]

I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.  I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter". So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.

That was a really tacky statement by Kyle, and if true, he couldn't
even do as advised......he still wrote the letter to Kermit.
 

Exactly Magnolia.  He either doesn't listen to authority or he was uncomfortable with the response he received.

[San]

I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.  I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter". So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.

That was a really tacky statement by Kyle, and if true, he couldn't
even do as advised......he still wrote the letter to Kermit.
 

He would not be worried about saving anyone embarrassment.  He is worried about himself and himself only.  Professional courtesy went out the window a very long time ago.

[Magnolia]

I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.  I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter". So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.

That was a really tacky statement by Kyle, and if true, he couldn't
even do as advised......he still wrote the letter to Kermit.
 

He would not be worried about saving anyone embarrassment.  He is worried about himself and himself only.  Professional courtesy went out the window a very long time ago.

And don't you think that if he(Kyle) had spoken to a lawyer,
he would have had the lawyer write a cease and desist to
Kermit?  Kyle is POS.

[San]

I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.  I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter". So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.

That was a really tacky statement by Kyle, and if true, he couldn't
even do as advised......he still wrote the letter to Kermit.
 

He would not be worried about saving anyone embarrassment.  He is worried about himself and himself only.  Professional courtesy went out the window a very long time ago.

And don't you think that if he(Kyle) had spoken to a lawyer,
he would have had the lawyer write a cease and desist to
Kermit?  Kyle is POS.

  I agree. 

[Red]

Tracy Pollan to Play Beth Holloway in Lifetime TV Movie, The Natalee Holloway Story … As Aruba Hides Head in the Sand of Cover Up

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/20/tracy-pollan-to-play-beth-holloway-in-lifetime-tv-movie-the-natalee-holloway-story-as-aruba-hides-head-in-the-sand-of-covver-up/

The shelf life of a TV Lifetime movie has a half life of a radioactive isotope ... Aruba will never shed itself of this story unless they stand up like men and provide justice.

Just when Aruba thought the Natalee Holloway story was going to go away, they will now have to face the fact that there will be a Lifetime movie directed by Mikael Salomon made of the events of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the subsequent botched investigation and cover up. Justice for Natalee … the further exposing of the corruption and nepotism that went on in Aruba to this day in providing a family no answers or “Justice for Natalee”.

[hotping]

Thank You Red.....Aruba just does not get it.....All Most of Us want is to Bring Natalee Home and Aruba can do that but instead They keep the lies coming after all this time.......

[Tamikosmom]

I agree that Kyle Kingman's own words on a private site imply that he has betrayed justice for Natalee and ... closure for her family when he did not immediately revealing to the family/FBI on his returned to the States ... the second set of ROV images as well his observations while on board the Persistence ... observations that imply that the undertaking by John S. was all about self-serving motives.

However ... a few of Kyle's posts to the SM site reveal that Kyle embraces a faith ... a faith that reflects my own.  It is my sincere prayer that this faith will be the catalyst to a change of heart ... a change of heart that will reveal to the FBI/family the ENTIRE story regarding the hoax encompassing the Persistence endeavor.

"Genuine" repentence paves the road to forgiveness.  There will be related consequences but ... in the long run ... the lightened burden will make it all worthwhile and ... lessons learned will make it all worthwhile.

Good Morning Monkeys.  Good Morning Kyle.

Janet
9:30 AM PT

[San]

Thank You Red.....Aruba just does not get it.....All Most of Us want is to Bring Natalee Home and Aruba can do that but instead They keep the lies coming after all this time.......

They don't get that we don't want her final resting place to be on their POS island.

[EURobert]

Tracy Pollan to Play Beth Holloway in Lifetime TV Movie, The Natalee Holloway Story … As Aruba Hides Head in the Sand of Cover Up

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/20/tracy-pollan-to-play-beth-holloway-in-lifetime-tv-movie-the-natalee-holloway-story-as-aruba-hides-head-in-the-sand-of-covver-up/

The shelf life of a TV Lifetime movie has a half life of a radioactive isotope ... Aruba will never shed itself of this story unless they stand up like men and provide justice.

Just when Aruba thought the Natalee Holloway story was going to go away, they will now have to face the fact that there will be a Lifetime movie directed by Mikael Salomon made of the events of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the subsequent botched investigation and cover up. Justice for Natalee … the further exposing of the corruption and nepotism that went on in Aruba to this day in providing a family no answers or “Justice for Natalee”.

Remember Dutch Parliamentarian (and Minister of Internal Affairs and Kingdomrelations in 2005) Johan Remkes last week voted against the Rijksrecherche doing a corruption-investigation at Aruba! And me sending him an email?
Maybe it will open his eyes when he sees there will be a movie on Natalee’s disappearence soon that probably will be seen around the world and will exponentially damage tourism to Aruba.
Maybe he’ll be inspired to do something (behind the scenes) to solve the Natalee Holloway-case when we all send him an email!

j.remkes@tweedekamer.nl

[texasmom]

Thank You Red.....Aruba just does not get it.....All Most of Us want is to Bring Natalee Home and Aruba can do that but instead They keep the lies coming after all this time.......

They don't get that we don't want her final resting place to be on their POS island.

I agree, and no matter how long it takes; WE'RE NOT GIVING UP!   

[San]

Thank You Red.....Aruba just does not get it.....All Most of Us want is to Bring Natalee Home and Aruba can do that but instead They keep the lies coming after all this time.......

They don't get that we don't want her final resting place to be on their POS island.

I agree, and no matter how long it takes; WE'RE NOT GIVING UP!    

That is not an option.

[Frank]

Hey Red,

How can they stand up like men when they sit down to pee?

[Tamikosmom]

I believe that Natalee Holloway's loving stepfather realized very early on that a coverup in the investigation dictated that justice for his stepdaughter was not about to come from an Aruban or Dutch court.  Jug Twitty's only request was that he could bring his Natalee home ...

If the contents of the cage/trap held Natalee Holloway's remains ... for the sake of a measure of closure ... the family needs to know.  Surely Aruba could afford this one significant gesture.

Janet

++++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Frank.

I have missed ya.  I hope all is well.

Janet

[Frank]

found some interesting quotes from way back:

Karin Janssen was then interviewed on television and made this statement:

"The suspicion for these two suspects (guards) range from murder, to homicide, to kidnapping with death as a result. We also have complicity or accessory to those two criminal acts."

And this from Mickey John the guard:
Van Susteren: Anything else you'd like to say?

John: Well, like I said before, the justice system, the detectives, they're
fools. They have to go back to school. And they were used, like, a
scapegoat, used,like, a black person in society to cover their mess.

And this:

Attorney General Mariaine Croes:

"Paulus Van der sloot is being held in suspicion of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, not the cover-up."

Cover up? What cover up?

[Tamikosmom]

I believe that Natalee Holloway's loving stepfather realized very early on that a coverup in the investigation dictated that justice for his stepdaughter was not about to come from an Aruban or Dutch court.  Jug Twitty's only request was that he could bring his Natalee home ...

If the contents of the cage/trap held Natalee Holloway's remains ... for the sake of a measure of closure ... the family needs to know.  Surely Aruba could afford this one significant gesture.

Janet

++++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for June 9, 2005, CNNHN
Aired June 9, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

BETH TWITTY, MOTHER OF MISSING GIRL: Our primary goal is to bring Natalee back home. We will do whatever it takes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html