Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[texasmom]

My translation: Police Divers recover items from robbery in Rooi Dam.  The box was reported to contain 300 (more or less) poisonous pills of some kind so that's why it was so important to recover the box?

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6870/5/

duikteam cu police owing to duik in dam of rooi afo tuesday, 23 december 2008 - 09:55 monday morning much person cu owing to happen near of dam of rooi afo owing to see algo inusual. was deal here of various acolyte of police y they duikteam. is so cu some month happen one box strong owing to wordo steal at santa rose. during the investigacion the ultimo simanan here owing to come haja one tip cu the box strong will is throw in the dam. in the box strong was have more or less 300 pill of one substancia much poisonous y for this was much important for haja the box strong bek. the duikteam was exitoso y they owing to succeed haja the box strong. apart from this they owing to come encontra cu various another articulonan more cu probably is procedente of ladronicia. will is interesting kizas for bay throw one view in the another damnan rond of aruba. click read more for more imagen. come across

[Tamikosmom]

Will Joran go home for Christmas, (if he's not already there)?  If so, how will those outside of the Vandersloot home respond?  The post below was after the Peter/Patrick tapes, I wonder how the Aruban people feel after the latest story from Joran.  And after the latest from Rudy Croes.  The Joran/Paul/Jan conspiracy was printed in at least one Aruban newspaper back in September; but nothing much came of it.  Now it's back and I don't think it's going away this time.  I hope not anyway. 

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54632

Author Message
Eddy   Post subject: Arubans feel betrayed by Joran van der SlootPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:06 pm 
Extra Helpful Expert
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 4:47 am
Posts: 2597  Emotions Run High, Aruba Is Angry At Van Der Sloot

February 7th 2008, Aruba.
 
Arubans still feel attacked by the U.S. media.
Many believe the pride of Aruba has been tarnished.

ORANJESTAD-Hundreds of locals expressed their anger on radio shows
and via e-mail to newspapers after watching the "confession-on-tape" on
Monday evening. Arubans reacted massively against Joran van der Sloot,
and that for the first time since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on
May 30th, 2005.

For the past 2 years the public on the island gave Joran van der Sloot the
benefit of the doubt, in that he was involved in the disappearance of
Natalee. There was no blood, no body, and no evidence of a murder.
Many on the island believed that Natalee was still alive, and was in hiding
somewhere. Others believed that she may have accidentally drowned at
sea, after she was left alone by Joran on the beach.

At least 5,000 government employees were granted two days free, to
help with the search for Natalee in 2005. Dutch F-16 planes were sent to
scan the entire island for a body recently buried underground. Thousands
of volunteers helped search for the missing teen without any result.
There was a search every day for months. And the government was
spending millions in the investigation.

Arubans felt that they were constantly attacked by the U.S. media, and at
times by the Holloway family. That did not help with having sympathy for
the Holloway family, and it certainly did not help the case. In the contrary
Arubans shifted in a defensive mode, and felt that their pride was being
attacked by the media. Arubans felt nothing that they did to help find
Natalee was appreciated.

The Dutch crime reporter, Peter R. de Vries started to investigate the
case at the beginning of 2007. De Vries has spent months studying the
investigation reports, and interviewing those involved in the case. Patrick
van der Eem –a 34 year old Antillean- approached De Vries in The
Netherlands in the middle of 2007, he wanted to help out solving the case.

De Vries hired Van der Eem as an undercover thug that would make
Joran comfortable enough to tell exactly what happened that night. Joran
told his story on different occasions while Van der Eem was driving, and
it was all captured on hidden camera.

Van der Eem is a businessman in Arnhem who loves Aruba, and wanted
closure for the parents of Natalee. In addition, he was tired of the bad
press Aruba has been getting. With the story of Joran on tape, De Vries
added the pieces of the puzzle together and claimed he has solved the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway. His program was broadcasted on
Monday evening to the Aruban public.


"Joran is a psychopath, he has lied to everyone on the island." said an
angry water-sports businesswoman, who did not want her name to be
made public. "I feel so sorry for Natalee, and her parents who had to go
through years of uncertainty as to what happened to their daughter. Our
island will suffer for a long time too, we will bare the consequences of the
actions of one man. My colleague of Pennsylvania was told by his family,
are you going again to that murder island? A person on CNN also
advised tourists that they are better off in Bermuda.''

Management Consultant, Mathilde Robles said that she knew Joran van
der Sloot by face. "He seems like a nice guy, and I did not want to pre-
judge him. But now after watching the program on Monday, I am certain
that he is behind the disappearance of Natalee, he himself has admitted
it."

Robles is shocked on Van der Sloot's comment, that he can not believe
that this has happened to him. "If the judge does not punish this man, we
the Arubans will," said Robles.

Joran van der Sloot said on different occasions that he felt particularly
sorry for the Aruban community. The image of Aruba as the safest
country in the Caribbean has been tarnished ever since the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

According to the government, the case has cost the island tens of millions
of dollars. Tourism from the U.S. fell by 9 percent during 2006. Aruba is
70 percent dependent on the U.S. generating market. There are barely
arrivals from Alabama, the state of Natalee Holloway. The Governor of
Alabama has imposed a travel boycott to Aruba.

Public anger is also directed to the father of Joran, Paul van der Sloot,
mainly because Paul has smuggled a cellular phone to his son in prison.
Many on the island now believe that the family Van der Sloot is out for
the money. Paul van der Sloot said earlier that he would sew the country
of Aruba, because he was held as suspect in the disappearance of
Natalee. On tape, Joran said he will also sew, and wants to cash in big
time for a house in Spain.

Emotions ran so high, there were a few people who expressed that
the Van der Sloot family should be deported from Aruba.

Thank you texasmom



Arubans knew the truth from the getgo but ... justice for an 18 year old American citizen was not a concern.  Arubans just wanted the Natalee Holloway story to go away ... just wanted Beth Holloway to go away ... so the Tourist Industry could again thrive.


Beth and Jug see through the facade.  They have both publicly stated that they do not have any advocates on that Island except Jossy Mansur.

The people of Aruba have no problem demonstrating in mass when it comes to wages or ... drug, choller and environmental issues.  Also ... they are able to organize demonstration against an anquished mother who dared to call two suspects criminals ... two suspects who obstructed the investigation into her missing daughter with their lies.  However ... in 3 1/2  years there has not even been one "tiny" demonstration by the "good people" of Aruba on behalf of justice for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
Dana Pletzer Show
October 5, 2007

Mansur: People thought Beth caused bad publicity for the island, but Beth is not at fault, it is the three suspects.If there's damage to the island it should be on the shoulders of the three suspects.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/10/05/the-dana-pretzer-show-live-friday-october-5-2007-guests-include-jossy-mansur-and-ken-shepherd/


Beth Holloway Twitty
CNN LIVE TODAY
July 5, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S MOTHER: It is now that I ask the world to help me. Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter. These criminals are not only allowed to walk freely among the tourists and citizens of Aruba, but there are no limits where they may choose to travel.

I am asking all mothers and fathers and all nations to hear my plea. I implore you, do not allow these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers, to enter your country until this case is solved. Do not allow these criminals to walk among your citizens. Help me by not allowing these two to get away with this crime.

It is my greatest fear today that the Kalpoe brothers will leave Aruba. I am asking the Aruban officials to notify the United States State Department in the event these suspects try to leave this island. I am asking all nations not to offer them a safe haven. I am asking this in the name of my beautiful, intelligent and outstanding daughter who I haven’t seen for 36 days and for whom I will continue to search until I find her.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/05/lt.03.html


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 157/158

No one is breathing. Or Moving. Reporters and camera people are crying. The media hve been here more than a month, and they’ve seen firsthand what we’ve experienced. They are moved by this plea. But some of the Arubans are not. Calling their local sons “criminals” offends them. Having just heard the prosecuting attorney tell us at least one of the Kalpoes could be involved in whatever happened to my daughter. I felt the term seemed appropriate. But it led to an abrupt change in the tide of support.

… Not long after the “criminals speech,” some Arubans back off their prayer vigils for Natalee. A few protest in the streets against the barage of negative media. We’ve worn out our welcome at the Holiday Inn. And they let us know they’ve had it. The Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA), the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA), the Aruba Trade and Industry Association and a scattering of island officials establish the Strategic Communications Task Force to combat the negative media. And to combat us.


Some Arubans angry at Holloway’s mom
Calling brothers ‘criminals’ elicits resentment, statement from lawyer
updated 6:56 p.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - A latent but growing resentment here became evident for the first time when more than 200 people, some wrapped in Aruban flags, said they were incensed by statements made by the mother of missing American teen Natalee Holloway.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8484217


John Merryweather
‘Scarborough Country’
July 6, 2005

JOHN MERRYWEATHER, FORMER ARUBA DIPLOMAT: I was not part of the organization, but I went there in support of our justice system.

<snipped?

SCARBOROUGH: No, what did Natalee’s mother say that offended so many people in Aruba?

MERRYWEATHER: Well, you know, it—it—it offended me, also.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8498049/


Beth Holloway Twitty
CNN - LAW CENTER
July 8, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) — The mother of Natalee Holloway apologized Friday for saying two released suspects were involved in her daughter’s disappearance.

“The statements I made on July 5th were fueled by despair and frustration because of still not knowing where my daughter is,” Beth Holloway Twitty said in a statement to the media. “I think everyone, everyone can sympathize with that.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/08/missing.aruba/index.html

[Tamikosmom]

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!!

Just two more sleeps ...

 

Janet
8:00 AM PT

[Magnolia]

From ABC....Natalee's story is the most widely read Crime
& Justice Story of 2008

http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6511338&page=1



Aruba....it's not going away!

[msmarple]

I can never find the Murder and Crime Thread..sorry.

Translated from Amigoe Dec 22, 2008:

   
SAN NICOLAS - A 46-year-old American tourist is Friday night in San Nicolas, near a bar in the B. Van Veen Zeppenfeldtstraat, robbed by strangers. This is his wallet, with money and credit cards, taken by the thieves. The tourist was injured during the robbery and was taken to hospital for treatment.
The victim was one, also American, a friend in the evening 'Chocolate City' go steps. During the trip at some point split up to individual bars to visit. When the time later a woman came out, she saw her friend on street. He was currently unconscious and bleeding from his mouth. When he once appeared conscious that he was a cut on his lip, but the victim could not remember the incident. He knew the police have to tell that his wallet containing $ 200 in cash and two credit cards, had disappeared. The injured tourists were removed by ambulance for medical monitoring and treatment.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_50797.php

Thank you Buckeye. I posted this in the M&C thread. It's in "Important Case Documents" - after the Statements section of that Index.

The Murder & Crime thread now has 94,373 views.

I don't have much time these days, but I do try to skim through all of the Natalee posts. Sorry I haven't been able to contribute more lately. Thanks to all of you who watch for crimes, especially the violent ones, AND/OR those involving tourists, on Aruba.

[msmarple]

... and I seem to have forgotten how to change clothes. (Since Thanksgiving.) I'm getting a message that says my photo is "too big, or not an avatar" (?? - I have used it previously).

Maybe a mod can grab my Christmas poinsettia from last year? Or, we can just jump ahead to last year's New Year's version, with the poinsettia and champagne.

I hope all of our monkeys have a blessed Christmas. Stay safe and warm!

[2NJSons_Mom]

... and I seem to have forgotten how to change clothes. (Since Thanksgiving.) I'm getting a message that says my photo is "too big, or not an avatar" (?? - I have used it previously).

Maybe a mod can grab my Christmas poinsettia from last year? Or, we can just jump ahead to last year's New Year's version, with the poinsettia and champagne.

I hope all of our monkeys have a blessed Christmas. Stay safe and warm!

Klaas has the ability to put avatars in place as an admin.  I'm sure she'll fix you up when she sees this. 

Happy Holidays, msmarple.  Seems we're all busy with something these days.  Blessings to you & yours.

[2NJSons_Mom]

[klaasend]

... and I seem to have forgotten how to change clothes. (Since Thanksgiving.) I'm getting a message that says my photo is "too big, or not an avatar" (?? - I have used it previously).

Maybe a mod can grab my Christmas poinsettia from last year? Or, we can just jump ahead to last year's New Year's version, with the poinsettia and champagne.

I hope all of our monkeys have a blessed Christmas. Stay safe and warm!

Merry Christmas to you too!

[msmarple]

Hi klaas! Thanks for fixing my avatar ... I was almost too late! (And too brain dead to figure out which link to use.)

Hope you are doing well. When I last was paying close attention, you were just out of the hospital and fininishing up a major home overhaul.

[bastibro]

Joran photographed after December 15 in Vang Vieng, Laos.



According to the 24-year-old Dutch backpacker Martijn, who made the pictures, he was accompanied by 2 friends.

[hotping]

Joran is so sick........Run Joran Run....but You can't hide.....The Monkeys can always find You.....
Here is alitte bit about Vang Vieng Laos





   
 
 
Vang Vieng (population about 25,000) is located in central southern Laos about a 4 hour bus ride north of the capital city of Vientiane or about 7 hours south of the town of Luang Prabang. If you enter Vang Vieng by bus you will be dropped off on a huge gravel runway on the edge of town. A brisk several minute walk across the runway will find you in the main part of town. Signs for guesthouses or restaurants call out from almost every single building. You know you are in Vang Vieng when you see the dull rusted corrugated metal roofs of the buildings in stark contrast to the brightly colored 3 wheel Tuk-tuks lined up along the streets.

This is a truly a backpackers city - businesses that cater to backpackers are everywhere. Internet cafes, guesthouses, bars, massage parlors & trekking companies all greet your arrival with welcoming arms. These are all fairly new establishments as backpackers haven't always stayed in Vang Vieng. It is only within the past 5 or 6 years that Vang Vieng has seen such an influx of tourists.

There are people here from all over the world - you can't help but meet people!
 
http://www.davestravelcorner.com/articles/vangvieng/

[klaasend]

Hi klaas! Thanks for fixing my avatar ... I was almost too late! (And too brain dead to figure out which link to use.)

Hope you are doing well. When I last was paying close attention, you were just out of the hospital and fininishing up a major home overhaul.

All behind me now thank goodness.  Just busy with the holidays and this crazy forum 

[Frank]

Nice pix of Joran:

"I'll do anything to protect my son" Paulus van der sloot

Yes, that's why he's not with you, premeditated Paulus.

Paulus is the murderer and the one holding Natalee hostage, figuratively speaking.

[Frank]

Jan didn't do it for the money, Karin didn't do it for the money. They did it for the Dutch, their Dutch friend, which only makes it more sick.

Loyalty to the Dutch.

AMSTERDAM, 24/12/08 - Labour (PvdA) appears to want to take a different direction regarding the integration of immigrants. In a new memorandum on the subject, the party urges confronting intolerance. "The mistake that we should never again make is swallowing criticism of cultures or religions because of tolerance."

The memorandum was drawn up by PvdA chairwoman Lilianne Ploumen, indicating it is a document from the entire party leadership including PvdA leader Wouter Bos. The memorandum, entitled "Divided past, shared future,' will be presented to the PvdA members at a congress next March and then, if adopted, become the new PvdA policy.

According to the party chairwoman, the government should no longer try to encourage integration by information campaigns. The government should only provide the conditions in which integration can take place by itself. On the one hand, the law must be maintained and on the other, opportunities must be offered to everyone via education, youth guidance and activating labour market policy.

Toleration has not done integration of migrants in the Netherlands any good, the memorandum concludes. The PvdA considers that in future, newcomers must opt for the Dutch society. "We all speak Dutch, know the basic forms of behaviour and the democratic constitutional state."

Nonetheless, the PvdA wants to continue to tolerate headscarves in classrooms and mosques with an Arabic architecture. It will become somewhat stricter on wearing of burqas or refusing to shake hands with someone of the opposite sex; immigrants that do that should be told that it is abnormal in the Netherlands. Finally, there is a third category, setting explicit boundaries, under which the PvdA is thinking of female circumcision and violence to save damaged family honour.

Ploumen terms this three-prong policy norm-setting, confrontation or tolerance. In the past years, tolerance has been over-emphasised, including tolerance of behaviour that was actually not acceptable, the chairman says. In the memorandum, she also calls on Muslims not to take on a victim's role any more.

Ploumen gave an interview yesterday in De Volkskrant, traditionally a PvdA-minded medium. According to the paper, the PvdA sets out "a friendly but strong vision." "An iron fist in a velvet glove, beyond tolerance and cultural relativism."

"The mistake we must never again make," says Ploumen in the interview, "is choking back criticism of cultures or religions for the sake of tolerance." For a long time, it was thought that "it would all eventually turn out well by itself." In practice, that meant looking away from problems. "Feelings of loss and worry were suppressed. And (..) these feelings were not recognised by government and politicians."

The theme has been dividing the PvdA, Ploumen acknowledges. "Earlier reports identified the problems, but offered no solutions. There was no party view to guide local politicians. This there now is. (...) I assume that this resolution will get through at the congress in March."

To De Volkskrant's question about whether the problems caused by children of Turkish or Moroccan parents are not actually already empathised too much, Ploumen answered: "No. It is sometimes painful, but it is necessary. We do have to make progress now. After the confrontation, the ultimate goal is acceptance. That everyone can respect one another."

Among migrants, 80 percent have dual nationality. Ploumen says the "grip of countries of origin" on immigrants "must disappear." She considers that "to become Dutch, you must in principle give up your old nationality." But at the same time "loyalty (to the Netherlands) for me has nothing to do with nationality."

[Tamikosmom]

Joran photographed after December 15 in Vang Vieng, Laos.



According to the 24-year-old Dutch backpacker Martijn, who made the pictures, he was accompanied by 2 friends.

Anita and Paulus

Was the outcome of protecting Joran from taking personal and legal responsibility for his participation in the happenings of May 30, 2005 worth it?

Sincerely, Janet

++++++

IT IS CALLED "DENIAL"!!

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT

On the Record w/ Greta
Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: Any drug use or alcohol use by him?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


On the Record w/ Greta
Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: … He said, The truth will come forward, and I know that I didn't do anything to the girl. And the truth will come forward. And he was so strong.  And I believe in him. I believe so in him. ... I believe in him 200 percent.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT

'Scarborough Country' for August 1
updated 8:48 a.m. PT, Tues., Aug. 2, 2005

DAVE HOLLOWAY:  Well, he knows what‘s going on.  There‘s no doubt in my mind.  You know, if my child would have done something like this, you know, as a parent, you would know about it and you would go to the authorities and that type thing. 

But you‘re dealing with a judge and you‘re dealing with somebody that has coached his son on a daily basis.  You know, they go through the interrogation process.  The next day, the father visits with the son and he coaches him.  You know, this kid is an athlete, and he‘s used to coaching.  And his dad—he depends very heavily on his dad‘s advice and coaching. 

And to go through the interrogation process and then turn around and have daily visits, you know, no wonder we‘ve not ever been able to get anywhere.  ... He made a lot of statements to me that day.  And one of the statements that I really remember, and it sinks in, is, he can understand my position as a father, but, as the father of Joran, he‘ll do anything to protect his son.  And I believe that he will, unless he has a change of heart.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8798488/
 

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for August 1, 2005, CNNHN
Aired August 1, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

DAVE HOLLOWAY: ... You know, you`ve got to stop and think. I went out to the prison and spoke directly with Paul Van Der Sloot, and you know, I don`t know whether I believe everything he said, but I did believe one thing, and that was that he would do everything he could to protect his son. And you know, these daily visits that he has, you know as well as I do, he`s going to be in there coaching and pumping his son, you know, just to, Keep on, keep on, and you`ll eventually get out.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/01/ng.01.html

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER!!!

The contents of the cage/trap which the Persistence discovered and ... John Silvetti turned over to the enemy in exchange for his self-serving interest must remain a focus.

Kyle Kingsman can attest to this but ... will he do the right thing and reveal to John Kelly ... Natalee's family and ... the FBI what he shared on a private forum.  Kyle's participation in the process has the ability to bring pressure on the ALE to what/who was in that cage/trap.

Natalee Holloway's family deserves to know the truth one way or the other.

Janet

______

KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

oceanexploration: "Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal." 


oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.    The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. ... The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

 
THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »
Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[hotping]

Great Post Janet! 

[hotping]

Thank You Bastibro for the pics of Urine aka Joran! 

[Tamikosmom]

Great Post Janet! 

Thank you hotping.

I do not believe for one minute that justice for Natalee Holloway is going to come out of an Aruban or Dutch court.  The implications in regards to accountability for the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... the persuing coverup ... is so far reaching.

However ... if it is revealed ... as the oceanographer (Kyle) on board the Persistence suspects ... that Natalee's remains were in that trap/cage ... the family will be allowed a measure of closure.

If the family is afforded the opportunity to bring Natalee home to rest on American soil ... I will consider my time and effort researching this case for the past 3 1/2 years worthwhile.

Either way ... I will bow and let go of my grasp on this case and ...  leave accountability to the discretion of the Judge of all judges.

Hotping ... Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Janet