Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[Keepthefaith]

2009 is upon us and i'm still keeping the faith that there are some secret witnesses..........No.I'm not holding my breath.

[San]

2009 is upon us and i'm still keeping the faith that there are some secret witnesses..........No.I'm not holding my breath.

After 3 1/2 years I have learned never to hold my breath concerning this case.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50958.php

Google translation:

[bleachedblack]

Hi Cageman,
I hope you will give us your impression of the Awe Mainta articles about Joran if you have the time.  Thank you in advance!  As always the translation tools leave much to be desired.

Well, the article states that Joran is on the run to escape for the long arms of justice. It also states that if he hasn't done anything wrong there should be no necessity to run. He left Aruba after some blunders during the investigation against him and after some help of some friends of his father. After some "heroic" actions in Thailand, tourists have seen him now in Laos. Probably because he has been nailed again by the crime-reporter P.R de Vries.
Furthermore the article wonders how Joran gets money. He should be studying in Holland but instead he is selling drugs and setting up a marihuana-plantation. He also is gambling playing poker. His behaviour is criminal-like. The writer expects that some day the curtain will fall for Joran and his family.

(Very loose translation!)

Jan Willem

Thank you for the translation.

So now he is setting up a marihuana plantation.  This is amazing.  Runs from one country to another thinking of all these new illegal business transactions.  Like father like son.

Maybe he picked up some agricultural tips from LVR.

[2NJSons_Mom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50958.php

Google translation:

   The following was not in my every day vocabulary, so I looked it up.

plen⋅i⋅po⋅ten⋅ti⋅ar⋅y   /ˌplɛnəpəˈtɛnʃiˌɛri, -ʃəri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [plen-uh-puh-ten-shee-er-ee, -shuh-ree] Show IPA Pronunciation 
noun, plural -ar⋅ies, adjective
–noun 1. a person, esp. a diplomatic agent, invested with full power or authority to transact business on behalf of another.
–adjective 2. invested with full power or authority, as a diplomatic agent.
3. conferring or bestowing full power, as a commission.
4. absolute or full, as power.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1635–45; < ML plēnipotentiārius. See plenipotent, -i-, -ary
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Cite This Source

[WhiskeyGirl]

2009 is upon us and i'm still keeping the faith that there are some secret witnesses..........No.I'm not holding my breath.

After 3 1/2 years I have learned never to hold my breath concerning this case.

I would add..."hold back my vomit".  May just be me.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Hi Cageman,
I hope you will give us your impression of the Awe Mainta articles about Joran if you have the time.  Thank you in advance!  As always the translation tools leave much to be desired.

Well, the article states that Joran is on the run to escape for the long arms of justice. It also states that if he hasn't done anything wrong there should be no necessity to run. He left Aruba after some blunders during the investigation against him and after some help of some friends of his father. After some "heroic" actions in Thailand, tourists have seen him now in Laos. Probably because he has been nailed again by the crime-reporter P.R de Vries.
Furthermore the article wonders how Joran gets money. He should be studying in Holland but instead he is selling drugs and setting up a marihuana-plantation. He also is gambling playing poker. His behaviour is criminal-like. The writer expects that some day the curtain will fall for Joran and his family.

(Very loose translation!)

Jan Willem

Thank you for the translation.

So now he is setting up a marihuana plantation.  This is amazing.  Runs from one country to another thinking of all these new illegal business transactions.  Like father like son.

I would imagine that he may be working on his education through distance learning.  Maybe internet courses, correspondence courses, or mail order diploma?  Maybe the plantation is an apprenticeship?  Maybe he got a micro-loan for his startup?  OJT?

jmho

[Tamikosmom]

Those who were part of the coverup regarding the happenings on the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the morning when an American citizen went missing and was never seen again ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap discovered as a result of the Persistence undertaking ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap without so much of a challenge by the John Silvetti ... John Silvetti  who was in charge of the Persistence undertaking.

Kyle Kingman has shared through the leaked ROV images as well as his own words that John Silvetti possessed underlying motives in regards to the chain of custody of the contents of the trap/cage to the enemy ... underlying motives that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway or a measure of closure for a long-suffering family ... motives that were self-serving.

Kyle Kingman could possibly be the hero who Beth Holloway felt in her heart would eventually emerge.

If Kyle would expose his observations/concerns/suspicions while he was employed in a professional capacity on board the Persistence undertaking concerning the John Silvetti/ALE connection ... pressure could be brought upon the Aruban "powers that be" regarding the contents of the trap/cage.

If Kyle were to step forward and do right because it is right ... if this young man would reveal ALL to the FBI and the family while aware that in all probability there will be personal consequences ...

Janet

+++++

OPRAH WINFREY SHOW
January 27, 2008

BETH HOLLOWAY: ... we've never really relied on an investigative approach to find an answer to Natalee. I think what we've relied on more heavily is that at any given moment something unexpected could happen and we really feel anyone could talk at any moment.
 
http://www2.oprah.com/world/politics/slide/20080116/politics_284_203.jhtml


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS SUBMITED TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

[Tamikosmom]

Dear Kyle

You have a precious little daughter.  Please attempt to put yourself in the place of Natalee Holloway's parents and ... ask yourself what your reponse would have been ...  regarding the happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking ... once you had set foot on American soil.

Would you have been submitting posts to forums expressing your concerns regarding your observations while on board the Persistence?  Would you be contacting major networks attempting to make a deal? 

Kyle ... according to Edlridge Cleaver ... you can either be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Which is it?

The family deserve to know IF their beloved Natalee's remains had been placed in that trap/cage.

In His Holy Name,

Janet

[texasmom]

I came across this article tonight, I don't remember it being posted recently in reference to the Persistence search for Natalee; if it has I apologize.  There is not a date I can find for when it was published, but I think it must have been from Nov. 2007.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7428547

Crews Leave Acadiana To Search For Natalee Holloway
 
David D'Aquin
 
(KATC)-- An international story takes on an Acadiana angle Thursday. Crews from Acadiana are on their way to Aruba to help in the search for Natalee Holloway. Holloway has been missing for two and a half years.

In St. Martin Parish Thursday-- Holloway's father who said he is excited about the search. He went on further, and said he is looking for closure. That "closure" wouldn't be possible without the help of strangers.

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.

"we're just so thankful that he's got a big heart and is willing to do that," said Holloway.

The ship is the research vessel "Persistance," owned by Marine Services in Lafayette. It will take about seven days to make the journey from the Port of Iberia to Aruba.

"i've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are going to find her," said Holloway, who will be staying in U.S. while crews search for his daughter. He said, he knows his daughter is dead, and doesn't want to be there when she is found, "the FBI told us that Natalee's not with us anymore. And, as a parent, you always hope that wasn't the case. But, in reality, we know that already."

Just like Dave Holloway, we all trusted them to do the right thing if and when they found her!   

[Tamikosmom]

I came across this article tonight, I don't remember it being posted recently in reference to the Persistence search for Natalee; if it has I apologize.  There is not a date I can find for when it was published, but I think it must have been from Nov. 2007.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7428547

Crews Leave Acadiana To Search For Natalee Holloway
 
David D'Aquin
 
(KATC)-- An international story takes on an Acadiana angle Thursday. Crews from Acadiana are on their way to Aruba to help in the search for Natalee Holloway. Holloway has been missing for two and a half years.

In St. Martin Parish Thursday-- Holloway's father who said he is excited about the search. He went on further, and said he is looking for closure. That "closure" wouldn't be possible without the help of strangers.

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.

"we're just so thankful that he's got a big heart and is willing to do that," said Holloway.

The ship is the research vessel "Persistance," owned by Marine Services in Lafayette. It will take about seven days to make the journey from the Port of Iberia to Aruba.

"i've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are going to find her," said Holloway, who will be staying in U.S. while crews search for his daughter. He said, he knows his daughter is dead, and doesn't want to be there when she is found, "the FBI told us that Natalee's not with us anymore. And, as a parent, you always hope that wasn't the case. But, in reality, we know that already."

Just like Dave Holloway, we all trusted them to do the right thing if and when they found her!   

Thanks texasmom.

The family of Natalee Holloway has no idea that the "game was fixed." and ... those who sacrificially donated to the Persistence undertaking had no idea that it was nothing but a hoax and ... that they were being scammed.

Janet
________

BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. ... The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

[sharon]

I came across this article tonight, I don't remember it being posted recently in reference to the Persistence search for Natalee; if it has I apologize.  There is not a date I can find for when it was published, but I think it must have been from Nov. 2007.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7428547

Crews Leave Acadiana To Search For Natalee Holloway
 
David D'Aquin
 
(KATC)-- An international story takes on an Acadiana angle Thursday. Crews from Acadiana are on their way to Aruba to help in the search for Natalee Holloway. Holloway has been missing for two and a half years.

In St. Martin Parish Thursday-- Holloway's father who said he is excited about the search. He went on further, and said he is looking for closure. That "closure" wouldn't be possible without the help of strangers.

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.

"we're just so thankful that he's got a big heart and is willing to do that," said Holloway.

The ship is the research vessel "Persistance," owned by Marine Services in Lafayette. It will take about seven days to make the journey from the Port of Iberia to Aruba.

"i've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are going to find her," said Holloway, who will be staying in U.S. while crews search for his daughter. He said, he knows his daughter is dead, and doesn't want to be there when she is found, "the FBI told us that Natalee's not with us anymore. And, as a parent, you always hope that wasn't the case. But, in reality, we know that already."

Just like Dave Holloway, we all trusted them to do the right thing if and when they found her!   

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.


This has bothered me since reading it a year ago.

I'm still very curious as to how he got to be so 'lucky'

 

[texasmom]

I came across this article tonight, I don't remember it being posted recently in reference to the Persistence search for Natalee; if it has I apologize.  There is not a date I can find for when it was published, but I think it must have been from Nov. 2007.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7428547

Crews Leave Acadiana To Search For Natalee Holloway
 
David D'Aquin
 
(KATC)-- An international story takes on an Acadiana angle Thursday. Crews from Acadiana are on their way to Aruba to help in the search for Natalee Holloway. Holloway has been missing for two and a half years.

In St. Martin Parish Thursday-- Holloway's father who said he is excited about the search. He went on further, and said he is looking for closure. That "closure" wouldn't be possible without the help of strangers.

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.

"we're just so thankful that he's got a big heart and is willing to do that," said Holloway.

The ship is the research vessel "Persistance," owned by Marine Services in Lafayette. It will take about seven days to make the journey from the Port of Iberia to Aruba.

"i've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are going to find her," said Holloway, who will be staying in U.S. while crews search for his daughter. He said, he knows his daughter is dead, and doesn't want to be there when she is found, "the FBI told us that Natalee's not with us anymore. And, as a parent, you always hope that wasn't the case. But, in reality, we know that already."

Just like Dave Holloway, we all trusted them to do the right thing if and when they found her!   

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.


This has bothered me since reading it a year ago.

I'm still very curious as to how he got to be so 'lucky'

 

I don't remember reading it then, but it is really bothering me now; and I want to know the answer to that too!   

[Tamikosmom]

2009 is upon us and i'm still keeping the faith that there are some secret witnesses..........No.I'm not holding my breath.

Keepthefaith ... witnesses have come and gone since the getgo but ....

 

Janet

+++++


THE GARDENER

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


Gardener - Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony
August 15, 2005

I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is. When I encountered the car in question, it was on that dirt road. I had slowed down to drive past there. The lights of my car "from" shining on that car. The person beside the driver, kept its hand for its head and face. I saw that the driver slid a bit to the back.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


THE GARDENER - JOSSY MANSUR

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for July 26, 2005, CNNHN
Aired July 26, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


THE GARDENER - BETH HOLLOWAY

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Update on Natalee Holloway Investigation
Aired February 23, 2006 - 21:00 ET

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html


THE GARDENER - DAVE HOLLOWAY

Hannity & Colmes
August 10, 2005

HOLLOWAY: Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course. Some witnesses may be scared to come forward for fear of repercussions.

[bastibro]

I have calculated that the skull in the cage is about 4.5 inches (11.4 cm) long.
That seems to me very small for a skull.

The average Skull Length of a human is 8.45 inches (21.5cm).

[hotping]

Those who were part of the coverup regarding the happenings on the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the morning when an American citizen went missing and was never seen again ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap discovered as a result of the Persistence undertaking ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap without so much of a challenge by the John Silvetti ... John Silvetti  who was in charge of the Persistence undertaking.

Kyle Kingman has shared through the leaked ROV images as well as his own words that John Silvetti possessed underlying motives in regards to the chain of custody of the contents of the trap/cage to the enemy ... underlying motives that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway or a measure of closure for a long-suffering family ... motives that were self-serving.

Kyle Kingman could possibly be the hero who Beth Holloway felt in her heart would eventually emerge.

If Kyle would expose his observations/concerns/suspicions while he was employed in a professional capacity on board the Persistence undertaking concerning the John Silvetti/ALE connection ... pressure could be brought upon the Aruban "powers that be" regarding the contents of the trap/cage.

If Kyle were to step forward and do right because it is right ... if this young man would reveal ALL to the FBI and the family while aware that in all probability there will be personal consequences ...

Janet

+++++

OPRAH WINFREY SHOW
January 27, 2008

BETH HOLLOWAY: ... we've never really relied on an investigative approach to find an answer to Natalee. I think what we've relied on more heavily is that at any given moment something unexpected could happen and we really feel anyone could talk at any moment.
 
http://www2.oprah.com/world/politics/slide/20080116/politics_284_203.jhtml


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS SUBMITED TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

This one sentence in Kyles's post has Me wondering Does the FBI know.....

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.


Who is We....Is it the Good Guys or the Bad Guys....and where are the samples....did the Persistence Crew sample the contents prior to ALE and were they given to the FBI? I still think that the FBI knows alot more than We do.....At least I hope that they do....I think that We will learn some very interesting things in the near future.....JMHO!

[texasmom]

I came across this article tonight, I don't remember it being posted recently in reference to the Persistence search for Natalee; if it has I apologize.  There is not a date I can find for when it was published, but I think it must have been from Nov. 2007.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7428547

Crews Leave Acadiana To Search For Natalee Holloway
 
David D'Aquin
 
(KATC)-- An international story takes on an Acadiana angle Thursday. Crews from Acadiana are on their way to Aruba to help in the search for Natalee Holloway. Holloway has been missing for two and a half years.

In St. Martin Parish Thursday-- Holloway's father who said he is excited about the search. He went on further, and said he is looking for closure. That "closure" wouldn't be possible without the help of strangers.

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.

"we're just so thankful that he's got a big heart and is willing to do that," said Holloway.

The ship is the research vessel "Persistance," owned by Marine Services in Lafayette. It will take about seven days to make the journey from the Port of Iberia to Aruba.

"i've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are going to find her," said Holloway, who will be staying in U.S. while crews search for his daughter. He said, he knows his daughter is dead, and doesn't want to be there when she is found, "the FBI told us that Natalee's not with us anymore. And, as a parent, you always hope that wasn't the case. But, in reality, we know that already."

Just like Dave Holloway, we all trusted them to do the right thing if and when they found her!   

Thanks texasmom.

The family of Natalee Holloway has no idea that the "game was fixed." and ... those who sacrificially donated to the Persistence undertaking had no idea that it was nothing but a hoax and ... that they were being scammed.

Janet
________

BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. ... The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

Thank you Janet. 

It is disgusting beyond belief to me that this was a "game" at all! 

[bastibro]

I have calculated that the skull in the cage is about 4.5 inches (11.4 cm) long.
That seems to me very small for a skull.

The average Skull Length of a human is 8.45 inches (21.5cm).

Correction: Average Caucasian Skull is 7.9 inches(20cm).

[Tamikosmom]

Those who were part of the coverup regarding the happenings on the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the morning when an American citizen went missing and was never seen again ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap discovered as a result of the Persistence undertaking ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap without so much of a challenge by the John Silvetti ... John Silvetti  who was in charge of the Persistence undertaking.

Kyle Kingman has shared through the leaked ROV images as well as his own words that John Silvetti possessed underlying motives in regards to the chain of custody of the contents of the trap/cage to the enemy ... underlying motives that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway or a measure of closure for a long-suffering family ... motives that were self-serving.

Kyle Kingman could possibly be the hero who Beth Holloway felt in her heart would eventually emerge.

If Kyle would expose his observations/concerns/suspicions while he was employed in a professional capacity on board the Persistence undertaking concerning the John Silvetti/ALE connection ... pressure could be brought upon the Aruban "powers that be" regarding the contents of the trap/cage.

If Kyle were to step forward and do right because it is right ... if this young man would reveal ALL to the FBI and the family while aware that in all probability there will be personal consequences ...

Janet

+++++

OPRAH WINFREY SHOW
January 27, 2008

BETH HOLLOWAY: ... we've never really relied on an investigative approach to find an answer to Natalee. I think what we've relied on more heavily is that at any given moment something unexpected could happen and we really feel anyone could talk at any moment.
 
http://www2.oprah.com/world/politics/slide/20080116/politics_284_203.jhtml


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS SUBMITED TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

This one sentence in Kyles's post has Me wondering Does the FBI know.....

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.


Who is We....Is it the Good Guys or the Bad Guys....and where are the samples....did the Persistence Crew sample the contents prior to ALE and were they given to the FBI? I still think that the FBI knows alot more than We do.....At least I hope that they do....I think that We will learn some very interesting things in the near future.....JMHO!

Kyle's words implies that the sampling of the contents of the cage/trap took place underwater.  He states that he viewed the process from a video.

Janet

++++++

ocean exploration (Kyle)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

[Blonde]

Before people jump to soon into conclusions, literally the article states he is looking for ways for selling drugs en setting up a marihuana-plantation. I should have made a more proper translation. Remember that I have to make a double translation: first from Papiamento to Dutch and than to English.

Is this illegal to do in the Netherlands?
I just don't know ,cuz I know you can buy pot and it's not against the law there.