Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[bastibro]

Thanks Janet,

The trap stolen from one of the FH was much smaller.
5.5x4 ft with a height of 1.4 ft.

[johan555]

Hi Johan! 

hey ouwe reus ! alles goed ? 

LOL ja hOOr, met jou ook? Ik lees niet zo veel van je de laatste tijd. How come?

kerst tijd ! heb allemaal familie over de vloer en die willen ook aandacht !

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Johan! 

hey ouwe reus ! alles goed ? 

LOL ja hOOr, met jou ook? Ik lees niet zo veel van je de laatste tijd. How come?

kerst tijd ! heb allemaal familie over de vloer en die willen ook aandacht !

johan555 San and bastibro San

Wakarimasen

Arigatogozaimus

Janet

[bastibro]

Hi Johan! 

hey ouwe reus ! alles goed ? 

LOL ja hOOr, met jou ook? Ik lees niet zo veel van je de laatste tijd. How come?

kerst tijd ! heb allemaal familie over de vloer en die willen ook aandacht !

haha ok, das ook erg belangrijk, en gezellig

[johan555]

lorenzo-paul 

[bastibro]

E! will broadcast a special on Natalee tonight. is there a way to watch that on-line??

[Tamikosmom]

lorenzo-paul 

DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, Lorenzo is a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18


Dave Holloway
Question and Answer Chat - BFN
January 23, 2006

14. Why was the school bus driver called the next morning and told to pick up Joran at Lorenzo's house?
 
DAVE HOLLOWAY: Joran was allegedly dropped off at a bus stop on the main highway. The bus driver had not made it there yet and saved Paulus about 30 minutes. Lorenzo's house was nearby.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2256.0

[truthseeker2]

Where were Tim Miller, Kyle, John Silvetti, and the Dateline crew, not to mention every other person on the Persistence who were in the area watching the monitors, when this image from the ROV flashed on the monitors?  This was taken 60 seconds after the 'thumbs down'.  That is why I am not sure we are seeing human remains here.  If they saw this on the monitor and didn't ask 'How can you give the thumbs down?' to Tim Trahan, then are we sure those are humain remains???

[Magnolia]

Where were Tim Miller, Kyle, John Silvetti, and the Dateline crew, not to mention every other person on the Persistence who were in the area watching the monitors, when this image from the ROV flashed on the monitors?  This was taken 60 seconds after the 'thumbs down'.  That is why I am not sure we are seeing human remains here.  If they saw this on the monitor and didn't ask 'How can you give the thumbs down?' to Tim Trahan, then are we sure those are humain remains???

 I figure that the only diver aboard the Persistence went down and
and gave the thumbs down and nobody questioned his observations.
He had seen inside the trap first hand and they had only seen images
from the ROV.
It could not be Natalee in the trap if the Persistence was to continue
on its mission to map the ocean floor.  Tim Trahan was a part of the
scam before the Persistence ever left Louisiana.  I feel certain that
he and Silvetti had discussed what his signal would be before he
ever made the dive.

[texasmom]

Where were Tim Miller, Kyle, John Silvetti, and the Dateline crew, not to mention every other person on the Persistence who were in the area watching the monitors, when this image from the ROV flashed on the monitors?  This was taken 60 seconds after the 'thumbs down'.  That is why I am not sure we are seeing human remains here.  If they saw this on the monitor and didn't ask 'How can you give the thumbs down?' to Tim Trahan, then are we sure those are humain remains???

 I figure that the only diver aboard the Persistence went down and
and gave the thumbs down and nobody questioned his observations.
He had seen inside the trap first hand and they had only seen images
from the ROV.
It could not be Natalee in the trap if the Persistence was to continue
on its mission to map the ocean floor.  Tim Trahan was a part of the
scam before the Persistence ever left Louisiana.  I feel certain that
he and Silvetti had discussed what his signal would be before he
ever made the dive.

This is the explanation that Kyle gave after it was questioned back in March.  The explanation in itself poses even more questions in my opinion.  One being, why were they out of dive time?  Magnolia may be right.        

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -  on: March 03, 2008, 07:34:25 PM 
To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

[texasmom]

This is the link for the discussion where Kyle's explanation was posted.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360282#msg360282

[Tamikosmom]

OFF TOPIC

Thanks for explaining Muffy, it's been a tough day and having just spoken with Peache's husband I need to make a post on his behalf.

He is such a lovely man and my heart breaks for he and his daughter.

We lost our Peaches to her illness, I will be forwarding information regarding the coming service for her to Klaas so that anyone who is in that area who might want to attend will have the information they will need to do so.

Please know her husband spoke of the love and support so many at SM had for Peaches, it's so apparent how meaningful that is to him at this time, he spoke of how many loved Peaches and it is so very true.

For intuition's sake I was on a mission to speak to her today, oddly enough post leaving her a voicemail, my daughter called me. We heard two series of beeps on the phone line, we both commented never having heard beeps like that on our mobile prior - we joked it was Rick letting us know he was there.

About a half hour later her husband called and left a voicemail. I have to think that Rick has Peaches by the hand now, that those beeps were their way of letting us know that.

There is a part of me that is in such deep sorrow tonight, for losing our Peaches and knowing the journey ahead for her husband and daughter. We need to keep them in our prayers as often as we can.

God bless you Peaches, forever and always. We miss and love you immensely and celebrate that God will bring you peace and a new purpose.

God bless her husband, her daughter, and her family and friends. We grieve with you and we hope in some small way, to be part of the many lights she cast into this world for goodness and for courage in the face of great adversity.

I find comfort thinking of her walking among the roses so many posted for her here.

Topic: PEACHES "rally", prayer and encouragement thead! R.I.P SWEET PEACHES  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1870.780

[truthseeker2]

Where were Tim Miller, Kyle, John Silvetti, and the Dateline crew, not to mention every other person on the Persistence who were in the area watching the monitors, when this image from the ROV flashed on the monitors?  This was taken 60 seconds after the 'thumbs down'.  That is why I am not sure we are seeing human remains here.  If they saw this on the monitor and didn't ask 'How can you give the thumbs down?' to Tim Trahan, then are we sure those are humain remains???

 I figure that the only diver aboard the Persistence went down and
and gave the thumbs down and nobody questioned his observations.
He had seen inside the trap first hand and they had only seen images
from the ROV.
It could not be Natalee in the trap if the Persistence was to continue
on its mission to map the ocean floor.  Tim Trahan was a part of the
scam before the Persistence ever left Louisiana.  I feel certain that
he and Silvetti had discussed what his signal would be before he
ever made the dive.

The point was...what about ALL those people, Tim Miller included, who were sitting there watching the monitor.  They had to have seen that image.  And NOBODY SAID..."What the hell is that!"  We are talking no more than 60 seconds from the thumbs down till this image is taken by the ROV.  You would have to believe that EVERYONE sitting there was in on some kind of conspiracy.  I know Tim Miller was not, and I doubt Dateline was.  I'm not so sure I can just assume this was a conspiracy from the getgo. 

I know..I know...I may get run off the forum like others have, but gee whizz!  If this conspiracy gets any bigger it will include the entire universe outside of the few people left posting here.

Maybe those are human remains, maybe not.  I just cannot believe not one person looked at that initial image in the monitor and said nothing at all.

[truthseeker2]

OFF TOPIC

Thanks for explaining Muffy, it's been a tough day and having just spoken with Peache's husband I need to make a post on his behalf.

He is such a lovely man and my heart breaks for he and his daughter.

We lost our Peaches to her illness, I will be forwarding information regarding the coming service for her to Klaas so that anyone who is in that area who might want to attend will have the information they will need to do so.

Please know her husband spoke of the love and support so many at SM had for Peaches, it's so apparent how meaningful that is to him at this time, he spoke of how many loved Peaches and it is so very true.

For intuition's sake I was on a mission to speak to her today, oddly enough post leaving her a voicemail, my daughter called me. We heard two series of beeps on the phone line, we both commented never having heard beeps like that on our mobile prior - we joked it was Rick letting us know he was there.

About a half hour later her husband called and left a voicemail. I have to think that Rick has Peaches by the hand now, that those beeps were their way of letting us know that.

There is a part of me that is in such deep sorrow tonight, for losing our Peaches and knowing the journey ahead for her husband and daughter. We need to keep them in our prayers as often as we can.

God bless you Peaches, forever and always. We miss and love you immensely and celebrate that God will bring you peace and a new purpose.

God bless her husband, her daughter, and her family and friends. We grieve with you and we hope in some small way, to be part of the many lights she cast into this world for goodness and for courage in the face of great adversity.

I find comfort thinking of her walking among the roses so many posted for her here.

Topic: PEACHES "rally", prayer and encouragement thead! R.I.P SWEET PEACHES  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1870.780

Thanks for posting this.  i had not seen it until now.  My heart goes out to the family.  Peaches was one strong lady.  May God bless and keep her.

truthseeker2

[Magnolia]

OFF TOPIC

Thanks for explaining Muffy, it's been a tough day and having just spoken with Peache's husband I need to make a post on his behalf.

He is such a lovely man and my heart breaks for he and his daughter.

We lost our Peaches to her illness, I will be forwarding information regarding the coming service for her to Klaas so that anyone who is in that area who might want to attend will have the information they will need to do so.

Please know her husband spoke of the love and support so many at SM had for Peaches, it's so apparent how meaningful that is to him at this time, he spoke of how many loved Peaches and it is so very true.

For intuition's sake I was on a mission to speak to her today, oddly enough post leaving her a voicemail, my daughter called me. We heard two series of beeps on the phone line, we both commented never having heard beeps like that on our mobile prior - we joked it was Rick letting us know he was there.

About a half hour later her husband called and left a voicemail. I have to think that Rick has Peaches by the hand now, that those beeps were their way of letting us know that.

There is a part of me that is in such deep sorrow tonight, for losing our Peaches and knowing the journey ahead for her husband and daughter. We need to keep them in our prayers as often as we can.

God bless you Peaches, forever and always. We miss and love you immensely and celebrate that God will bring you peace and a new purpose.

God bless her husband, her daughter, and her family and friends. We grieve with you and we hope in some small way, to be part of the many lights she cast into this world for goodness and for courage in the face of great adversity.

I find comfort thinking of her walking among the roses so many posted for her here.

Topic: PEACHES "rally", prayer and encouragement thead! R.I.P SWEET PEACHES  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1870.780

I am so sad about Peaches.  My heart aches for her family.

[Hotshot]

Dear Kyle

You have a precious little daughter.  Please attempt to put yourself in the place of Natalee Holloway's parents and ... ask yourself what your reponse would have been ...  regarding the happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking ... once you had set foot on American soil.

Would you have been submitting posts to forums expressing your concerns regarding your observations while on board the Persistence?  Would you be contacting major networks attempting to make a deal? 

Kyle ... according to Edlridge Cleaver ... you can either be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Which is it?

The family deserve to know IF their beloved Natalee's remains had been placed in that trap/cage.

In His Holy Name,

Janet

In His Holy Name,?  You have gone too far!  Several of you seem to think that KYLE was in charge of this trip.  All his job was, was to look at the footage, that is it!  he did his job!  He handed over all of what had to be handed over.  I do believe klaas said about a week ago to keep the peace here, and all you can do is keep preaching the same quotes over and over again.  People are getting tired of seeing the same thing, day in and day out.  when is this all going to stop?  I am making a call to Dave tomorrow, along with all the others who have touched base with him, just to let him know what is going on here, and what he thinks about people bashing the crew.  I am sure he wont be too thrilled to see that people are bashing these people who took months out of their lives, and millions to go and search.  I can't believe that people are stooping so low to think any of this!  It only shows some have too much time on their hands.  I am proud to be a monkey, but not with whats been talked about over the last month or so.  Some here don't even know me but despise me, and thats fine.....  i dont care what you think.  i have done my talk, done my walk.  Now lets see some of you do some walking and get up and do something about Natalaee being missing.  Stop the bashing, thats not what this site is about.  Deal with FACTS, now with what someone says to be Gospel.  Trust me, if vicky is who she says she is, and knows who she says she knows, things would have been done by now.... Really, "c'mon" think about it.  Geezzzzz

[truthseeker2]

I'm with you on this one, Hotshot.  This has gone on and on now, and I see less and less interest in this forum.  I know if we have seen this, then the family has seen it and I trust they will handle things accordingly.  Until I see more proof that these are human remains....well, the search continues.

[wreck]

Dear Kyle

You have a precious little daughter.  Please attempt to put yourself in the place of Natalee Holloway's parents and ... ask yourself what your reponse would have been ...  regarding the happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking ... once you had set foot on American soil.

Would you have been submitting posts to forums expressing your concerns regarding your observations while on board the Persistence?  Would you be contacting major networks attempting to make a deal? 

Kyle ... according to Edlridge Cleaver ... you can either be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Which is it?

The family deserve to know IF their beloved Natalee's remains had been placed in that trap/cage.

In His Holy Name,

Janet

In His Holy Name,?  You have gone too far!  Several of you seem to think that KYLE was in charge of this trip.  All his job was, was to look at the footage, that is it!  he did his job!  He handed over all of what had to be handed over.  I do believe klaas said about a week ago to keep the peace here, and all you can do is keep preaching the same quotes over and over again.  People are getting tired of seeing the same thing, day in and day out.  when is this all going to stop?  I am making a call to Dave tomorrow, along with all the others who have touched base with him, just to let him know what is going on here, and what he thinks about people bashing the crew.  I am sure he wont be too thrilled to see that people are bashing these people who took months out of their lives, and millions to go and search.  I can't believe that people are stooping so low to think any of this!  It only shows some have too much time on their hands.  I am proud to be a monkey, but not with whats been talked about over the last month or so.  Some here don't even know me but despise me, and thats fine.....  i dont care what you think.  i have done my talk, done my walk.  Now lets see some of you do some walking and get up and do something about Natalaee being missing.  Stop the bashing, thats not what this site is about.  Deal with FACTS, now with what someone says to be Gospel.  Trust me, if vicky is who she says she is, and knows who she says she knows, things would have been done by now.... Really, "c'mon" think about it.  Geezzzzz

So when is it up to you to decide what are fair questions that some of us are asking? I have a real problem with anyone who tells me what I should think or do regarding this case. These are LEGITIMATE questions and concerns  -- to hell with playing "nice" with anyone here. You don't know anything more than the rest of us.

[Tamikosmom]

It was difficult for Tim Miller to comprehend the findings in regards to the contents of the cage.  He had been so sure that the initial ROV images he viewed prior to the dive revealed the remains of Natalee Holloway.  However ... he had no choice.

However ... Kyle Kingman held a professional position on board the Persistance.  In his own words on both the SM forum and a private forum ... Kyle exposed his perspective regarding the ongoing happenings encompassing the entire search ... the discovery and ... the chain of custody that he observed.  I believe his words.

Janet

+++++++

THE DATELINE SPECIAL

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure."  He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--"he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


KYLE KINGMAN' - A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.


KYLE KINGMAN - SM FORUM

ocean exploration (Kyle)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #705 on: November 20, 2008, 11:22:14 PM »

Tim Miller was never on the Persistence while I was not on board.  He stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.msg551304#msg551304

[San]

Dear Kyle

You have a precious little daughter.  Please attempt to put yourself in the place of Natalee Holloway's parents and ... ask yourself what your reponse would have been ...  regarding the happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking ... once you had set foot on American soil.

Would you have been submitting posts to forums expressing your concerns regarding your observations while on board the Persistence?  Would you be contacting major networks attempting to make a deal? 

Kyle ... according to Edlridge Cleaver ... you can either be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Which is it?

The family deserve to know IF their beloved Natalee's remains had been placed in that trap/cage.

In His Holy Name,

Janet

In His Holy Name,?  You have gone too far!  Several of you seem to think that KYLE was in charge of this trip.  All his job was, was to look at the footage, that is it!  he did his job!  He handed over all of what had to be handed over.  I do believe klaas said about a week ago to keep the peace here, and all you can do is keep preaching the same quotes over and over again.  People are getting tired of seeing the same thing, day in and day out.  when is this all going to stop?  I am making a call to Dave tomorrow, along with all the others who have touched base with him, just to let him know what is going on here, and what he thinks about people bashing the crew.  I am sure he wont be too thrilled to see that people are bashing these people who took months out of their lives, and millions to go and search.  I can't believe that people are stooping so low to think any of this!  It only shows some have too much time on their hands.  I am proud to be a monkey, but not with whats been talked about over the last month or so.  Some here don't even know me but despise me, and thats fine.....  i dont care what you think.  i have done my talk, done my walk.  Now lets see some of you do some walking and get up and do something about Natalaee being missing.  Stop the bashing, thats not what this site is about.  Deal with FACTS, now with what someone says to be Gospel.  Trust me, if vicky is who she says she is, and knows who she says she knows, things would have been done by now.... Really, "c'mon" think about it.  Geezzzzz

What people are getting tired.  How do you know what people have done for Natalee and what they haven't.  There are people who don't need to announce every little shit they take.  Don't threaten people about calling Dave.