Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[ldstlou]

How does one get onto that Freebird site?  I sure would like to discuss this case without having to worry about saying anything that will have people fill up two pages of the same quotes over and over and over again.

I'm sure you will be getting an email soon.  If not I guess you are stuck here with us people who have no principals and are nuts.

I stand with the nuts.

Well, that just proved my point.  Either you agree with the Kyle-bashing...or you might as well not post here anymore.  Sad,  Really sad.

EXCUSE ME?  Nobody is bashing Kyle we are only seeking an explanation of what appears to be some pretty damning words out of HIS mouth. 

Nobody is saying you have to agree with ANYONE.  OTHERS are trying to tell us what we can discuss and research here and they have no right to.  Nothing is beyond discussion.  NOTHING.

Right.  So...will I be banned next?

I come here every single day...and yes, people are bashing Kyle.  You can call it what you want, but if you were the target of some of the posts that have been put out here you would not come back here either.  And you are losing posters over this.  If that's okay with you, then I guess it's okay with you.

LOL.  This is the most response I have ever had to a post on this forum.  I have opinions too, ya know.  And no....they have not been appreciated or respected on this forum.  So, I read.  And what has been going on here for the last few months has been very sad.

I, too, have been at this from the very beginning.  I am not a newcomer. 

There is a level of hostility that has creeped into this discussion that has not been helpful in any way.  Very sad.

I agree there is a level of hostility over the subject and it's sad that people can't agree to disagree.  If some have chosen to leave and post in other forums because of it so be it.  This case has gone on for so long now most established forums have closed their dedicated NH forums and only open when there's something in the news.  Sure, people get mad and open up little private invite only forums all the time.  Members come and go, nothing can be done about that and there is no way we are going to please everyone all the time. 

In case you hadn't noticed, this is not BFN or BNH or Natalee's Freebirds, this is Scared Monkeys.  This site is not about just the Natalee Holloway case.  We want justice for Natalee just like we want justice for Caylee, Stacy, Donna Jou, Jaliek, etc and all the other missing persons.

Klaas...you know me..at least I think you do. I just want you to know that my feelings come only from my own feelings about how Kermit handled the situation. I am not a part of any private forum and don't claim any insider info. You go to BFN the same as I do and I just IM'ed Kyle when all this came out because I was so surprised, He gave me his number and I talked to him the same as anyone else could have and I am telling you, he is a good guy. It is the only reason I stick up for him.

[wreck]

It appears to me that Kyle started out with great intentions, lapsed into poor judgement and trust, then recently is either remorseful or trying to cover his own behind.

[Tamikosmom]

How was Kermit ... who has staunchly upheld Natalee Holloway's family for 3 1/2 years ... to know when he went along with a "confidentiality agreement" on a private forum that Kyle Kingman's was about to reveal that the Persistence undertaking was nothing but a hoax to further the Aruban coverup ... a hoax that would insure that the family would never receive closure ... would never bring home their beloved home to rest on American soil.

A confidentiality agreement could not be honored under the circumstance.  The Persistence hoax needed to to exposed.

After being assured that Beth Holloway and the FBI were aware of the ROV images ... Kermit went out on a limb and took a personal risk on behalf of justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her family and ... shared the truth on an open forum ... the SM Natalee Holloway Forum.

Maybe the finger pointing should be directed at Kyle Kingman ... not the messenger.

The ROV images that escaped ALE destruction and ... Kyles observations regarding the the Persistence hoax should have been immediately shared with the family and FBI upon setting foot on American soil rather than ... posting on a private and/or open forum.  Also there should have been no attempt to make a deal with major networks.

Janet


 

[ldstlou]

What is wrong with you people? I am so sorry, I had to jump in.
How self righteous can you get? That is ridiculous. How dare you slander someone you don't even know.
OMG! Kyle walked away from his trip to Aruba with a funny feeling and expressed his feelings to people who love Natalee just the same as you all do...in the Freebirds Forum where it could be openly discussed amongst others with the same principals...those dedicated to justice for Natalee...how dare you question his integrity or the integrity of his daughter's name. What happened to you all? I just can't believe it.
Like it or not, I am friends with Jug Twitty. Like it or not, he CAN speak for Beth. Like it or not, I have copied and pasted every slanderous post you have made against Kyle and the crew of the Persistence. Believe it or not, Jug has made contact with Kyle and Kyle with Jug over this BS and I can assure you, Jug thinks this is all BS!!!! Make fun of the exclamation points if you must, I am just so disappointed in what is happening here. So is Jug, so is Kyle who busted his butt to bring Natalee home.
This is wrong what you are doing, so wrong!!! Trust me when I tell you Natalee's family members are aware of what you all have accused Kyle and the crew of the Persistence of, they have Kyle's email address and telephone number, and they have nothing but RESPECT for what that man did in Aruba. This nonsense has got to stop. How can you all be so mean and spitefull to people who put their everything into bringing Natalee home to her family?

How does one get onto that Freebird site?  I sure would like to discuss this case without having to worry about saying anything that will have people fill up two pages of the same quotes over and over and over again.

I have no idea, I was never asked...nor  am I offended by that. I don't know what everyone is talking about either when they speak of the "private forums" that have been created lately. Nor have I talked to Kyle in weeks. I was satisfied with what he told me after I spoke with him. He is what you all once thought he was...a very intelligent young man who threw his heart into Natalee's case just the same as all of us did.
I have real problem with Kermit. I know it will tick you off...but I have to speak my piece. If she had been honest and said..look...I am a member of Freebirds and Kyle was alarmed by some things that went down in Aruba and I want to share them with you because no one can dissect the truth like the Monkeys can...so I want to share his concerns with you. He can't due to confidentiality agreements but I feel the info is worth breaking my confidentiality agreement so here it is...then she would have my utmost respect. But that is not the way she chose to do it. Instread she took Kyle's concerns and turned them into some "conspiracy" that she "alone uncovered" and in the process...bastardized everything the members of the Persistence did.  I scream out and use my explanation points not out of some love for Kyle, but out of my own sense of right and wrong. I am sorry if you don't understand that.
Kyle owes you all nothing, he owes me nothing!! I didn't know the man when this all started but I have his email just the same as you all do and I respected him enough to send him a note and he respected me enough to answer. That is all!! Jeeze...can you all imagine what would have happened if you had given him the same consideration?

Confidentiality agreement?With whom?

Two...Kyle had a confidentiality agreement with the ship he was on...the Persistence...which is standard, and one with the Freebirds which Kermit agreed to when she joined. Is his career affected by what Kermit did? Absolutely!!! Did he try and cover up the finding of Natalee? No!! And just like Beth and Dave and Jug walked away from Aruba feeling as though "something went wrong" so did Kyle. And it was because of that feeling he joined the Freebirds and openly discussed with other members his concerns.

So you are a Freebird?I was asking what confidentiality agreement you were breaking?Are we not talking about Kyle's own concern's regarding the Persistence from his own mouth??

I knew better than to have even tried. I don't know why I did. I am just walking away. I stated from the get go...I am not a member of any forum other than SM and Blogs for Natalee. I am what I am...nothing more...and no great insider info as Kermit claims. I was just a Monkey who was taken aback at the disrespect shown the members of the Persistence...who despite the criticism...just wanted to find Natalee..IMHO.

You said it Ldstlou.You don't have to answer.I was just asking what CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT WILL YOU BREAK???

You know what? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I have been a Monkey for a long time and hate this is happening. If you are insinuating anything more than that then you are wrong. I miss coming here and talking about Natalee. But what has happened in regards to Kyle really bothers me and I have to stick by my beliefs just the same as you do. Don't make it anymore or any less than that please. I am not an enemy. My intentions are the same as yours.

[truthseeker2]

Right.  So...will I be banned next?

I come here every single day...and yes, people are bashing Kyle.  You can call it what you want, but if you were the target of some of the posts that have been put out here you would not come back here either.  And you are losing posters over this.  If that's okay with you, then I guess it's okay with you.

LOL.  This is the most response I have ever had to a post on this forum.  I have opinions too, ya know.  And no....they have not been appreciated or respected on this forum.  So, I read.  And what has been going on here for the last few months has been very sad.

I, too, have been at this from the very beginning.  I am not a newcomer. 

There is a level of hostility that has creeped into this discussion that has not been helpful in any way.  Very sad.

I agree there is a level of hostility over the subject and it's sad that people can't agree to disagree.  If some have chosen to leave and post in other forums because of it so be it.  This case has gone on for so long now most established forums have closed their dedicated NH forums and only open when there's something in the news.  Sure, people get mad and open up little private invite only forums all the time.  Members come and go, nothing can be done about that and there is no way we are going to please everyone all the time. 

In case you hadn't noticed, this is not BFN or BNH or Natalee's Freebirds, this is Scared Monkeys.  This site is not about just the Natalee Holloway case.  We want justice for Natalee just like we want justice for Caylee, Stacy, Donna Jou, Jaliek, etc and all the other missing persons.

Klaas,

I have the utmost respect for you and have never caused a problem on this firum.  But, San's comment to me is what was uncalled for.  I was not even posting her to begin with.  This is the level of hostility that has gone way beyond what this section of the forum was intended to produce.  IMO, Natalee and her family deserve better.

And, yes, I have noticed that this is not BFN or BNH.  This was always the preferred place to be, but not anymore.  You must have noticed the drop off in activity here.  And with all that is going on in the Netherlands and the show on E! tonight, and this is still what is being discussed? 

I have read many disturbing posts among longtime monkeys.  This isn't right.  While I have never been one to dominate the discussion here, I did notice that monkeys were always able to get through the differences.  This one has gone too far.

Personally, if I can find a good place to discuss this case I will go.  I would rather stay here, but the discussion is very one sided these days.

So to make some monkeys happy....I'll just read from now on, until I can find a better place....if that's okay with you and Red.

[ldstlou]

What is wrong with you people? I am so sorry, I had to jump in.
How self righteous can you get? That is ridiculous. How dare you slander someone you don't even know.
OMG! Kyle walked away from his trip to Aruba with a funny feeling and expressed his feelings to people who love Natalee just the same as you all do...in the Freebirds Forum where it could be openly discussed amongst others with the same principals...those dedicated to justice for Natalee...how dare you question his integrity or the integrity of his daughter's name. What happened to you all? I just can't believe it.
Like it or not, I am friends with Jug Twitty. Like it or not, he CAN speak for Beth. Like it or not, I have copied and pasted every slanderous post you have made against Kyle and the crew of the Persistence. Believe it or not, Jug has made contact with Kyle and Kyle with Jug over this BS and I can assure you, Jug thinks this is all BS!!!! Make fun of the exclamation points if you must, I am just so disappointed in what is happening here. So is Jug, so is Kyle who busted his butt to bring Natalee home.
This is wrong what you are doing, so wrong!!! Trust me when I tell you Natalee's family members are aware of what you all have accused Kyle and the crew of the Persistence of, they have Kyle's email address and telephone number, and they have nothing but RESPECT for what that man did in Aruba. This nonsense has got to stop. How can you all be so mean and spitefull to people who put their everything into bringing Natalee home to her family?

How does one get onto that Freebird site?  I sure would like to discuss this case without having to worry about saying anything that will have people fill up two pages of the same quotes over and over and over again.

I have no idea, I was never asked...nor  am I offended by that. I don't know what everyone is talking about either when they speak of the "private forums" that have been created lately. Nor have I talked to Kyle in weeks. I was satisfied with what he told me after I spoke with him. He is what you all once thought he was...a very intelligent young man who threw his heart into Natalee's case just the same as all of us did.
I have real problem with Kermit. I know it will tick you off...but I have to speak my piece. If she had been honest and said..look...I am a member of Freebirds and Kyle was alarmed by some things that went down in Aruba and I want to share them with you because no one can dissect the truth like the Monkeys can...so I want to share his concerns with you. He can't due to confidentiality agreements but I feel the info is worth breaking my confidentiality agreement so here it is...then she would have my utmost respect. But that is not the way she chose to do it. Instread she took Kyle's concerns and turned them into some "conspiracy" that she "alone uncovered" and in the process...bastardized everything the members of the Persistence did.  I scream out and use my explanation points not out of some love for Kyle, but out of my own sense of right and wrong. I am sorry if you don't understand that.
Kyle owes you all nothing, he owes me nothing!! I didn't know the man when this all started but I have his email just the same as you all do and I respected him enough to send him a note and he respected me enough to answer. That is all!! Jeeze...can you all imagine what would have happened if you had given him the same consideration?

Confidentiality agreement?With whom?

Two...Kyle had a confidentiality agreement with the ship he was on...the Persistence...which is standard, and one with the Freebirds which Kermit agreed to when she joined. Is his career affected by what Kermit did? Absolutely!!! Did he try and cover up the finding of Natalee? No!! And just like Beth and Dave and Jug walked away from Aruba feeling as though "something went wrong" so did Kyle. And it was because of that feeling he joined the Freebirds and openly discussed with other members his concerns.

So you are a Freebird?I was asking what confidentiality agreement you were breaking?Are we not talking about Kyle's own concern's regarding the Persistence from his own mouth??

I knew better than to have even tried. I don't know why I did. I am just walking away. I stated from the get go...I am not a member of any forum other than SM and Blogs for Natalee. I am what I am...nothing more...and no great insider info as Kermit claims. I was just a Monkey who was taken aback at the disrespect shown the members of the Persistence...who despite the criticism...just wanted to find Natalee..IMHO.

You said it Ldstlou.You don't have to answer.I was just asking what CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT WILL YOU BREAK???

You know what? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I have been a Monkey for a long time and hate this is happening. If you are insinuating anything more than that then you are wrong. I miss coming here and talking about Natalee. But what has happened in regards to Kyle really bothers me and I have to stick by my beliefs just the same as you do. Don't make it anymore or any less than that please. I am not an enemy. My intentions are the same as yours.

I may have misread what you were saying...I am so sorry if I did Sweetie...this is just so hard...for all of us.

[klaasend]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

[Keepthefaith]

What is wrong with you people? I am so sorry, I had to jump in.
How self righteous can you get? That is ridiculous. How dare you slander someone you don't even know.
OMG! Kyle walked away from his trip to Aruba with a funny feeling and expressed his feelings to people who love Natalee just the same as you all do...in the Freebirds Forum where it could be openly discussed amongst others with the same principals...those dedicated to justice for Natalee...how dare you question his integrity or the integrity of his daughter's name. What happened to you all? I just can't believe it.
Like it or not, I am friends with Jug Twitty. Like it or not, he CAN speak for Beth. Like it or not, I have copied and pasted every slanderous post you have made against Kyle and the crew of the Persistence. Believe it or not, Jug has made contact with Kyle and Kyle with Jug over this BS and I can assure you, Jug thinks this is all BS!!!! Make fun of the exclamation points if you must, I am just so disappointed in what is happening here. So is Jug, so is Kyle who busted his butt to bring Natalee home.
This is wrong what you are doing, so wrong!!! Trust me when I tell you Natalee's family members are aware of what you all have accused Kyle and the crew of the Persistence of, they have Kyle's email address and telephone number, and they have nothing but RESPECT for what that man did in Aruba. This nonsense has got to stop. How can you all be so mean and spitefull to people who put their everything into bringing Natalee home to her family?

How does one get onto that Freebird site?  I sure would like to discuss this case without having to worry about saying anything that will have people fill up two pages of the same quotes over and over and over again.

I have no idea, I was never asked...nor  am I offended by that. I don't know what everyone is talking about either when they speak of the "private forums" that have been created lately. Nor have I talked to Kyle in weeks. I was satisfied with what he told me after I spoke with him. He is what you all once thought he was...a very intelligent young man who threw his heart into Natalee's case just the same as all of us did.
I have real problem with Kermit. I know it will tick you off...but I have to speak my piece. If she had been honest and said..look...I am a member of Freebirds and Kyle was alarmed by some things that went down in Aruba and I want to share them with you because no one can dissect the truth like the Monkeys can...so I want to share his concerns with you. He can't due to confidentiality agreements but I feel the info is worth breaking my confidentiality agreement so here it is...then she would have my utmost respect. But that is not the way she chose to do it. Instread she took Kyle's concerns and turned them into some "conspiracy" that she "alone uncovered" and in the process...bastardized everything the members of the Persistence did.  I scream out and use my explanation points not out of some love for Kyle, but out of my own sense of right and wrong. I am sorry if you don't understand that.
Kyle owes you all nothing, he owes me nothing!! I didn't know the man when this all started but I have his email just the same as you all do and I respected him enough to send him a note and he respected me enough to answer. That is all!! Jeeze...can you all imagine what would have happened if you had given him the same consideration?

Confidentiality agreement?With whom?

Two...Kyle had a confidentiality agreement with the ship he was on...the Persistence...which is standard, and one with the Freebirds which Kermit agreed to when she joined. Is his career affected by what Kermit did? Absolutely!!! Did he try and cover up the finding of Natalee? No!! And just like Beth and Dave and Jug walked away from Aruba feeling as though "something went wrong" so did Kyle. And it was because of that feeling he joined the Freebirds and openly discussed with other members his concerns.

So you are a Freebird?I was asking what confidentiality agreement you were breaking?Are we not talking about Kyle's own concern's regarding the Persistence from his own mouth??

I knew better than to have even tried. I don't know why I did. I am just walking away. I stated from the get go...I am not a member of any forum other than SM and Blogs for Natalee. I am what I am...nothing more...and no great insider info as Kermit claims. I was just a Monkey who was taken aback at the disrespect shown the members of the Persistence...who despite the criticism...just wanted to find Natalee..IMHO.

You said it Ldstlou.You don't have to answer.I was just asking what CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT WILL YOU BREAK???

You know what? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I have been a Monkey for a long time and hate this is happening. If you are insinuating anything more than that then you are wrong. I miss coming here and talking about Natalee. But what has happened in regards to Kyle really bothers me and I have to stick by my beliefs just the same as you do. Don't make it anymore or any less than that please. I am not an enemy. My intentions are the same as yours.

I don't think your an enemy whatsoever ldstlou.I have major concerns that with all the knowledge from how this case has been handle from the beginning that the Persistence did not go down more informed,and or had some type of protocol,of what to do upon finding anything that remotely was human remains.Kyle's words are what the are.Alarming!To me anyway.I agree to disagree adn that's OK.To whom does Kyle have a Confidentiality agreement?"IF" it is with Schaeffer,Silvetti,and or a Major TV Network that will close the deal for me in terms of character as well as motivation!"IF" there is a deal what are the percentages?

[San]

Right.  So...will I be banned next?

I come here every single day...and yes, people are bashing Kyle.  You can call it what you want, but if you were the target of some of the posts that have been put out here you would not come back here either.  And you are losing posters over this.  If that's okay with you, then I guess it's okay with you.

LOL.  This is the most response I have ever had to a post on this forum.  I have opinions too, ya know.  And no....they have not been appreciated or respected on this forum.  So, I read.  And what has been going on here for the last few months has been very sad.

I, too, have been at this from the very beginning.  I am not a newcomer. 

There is a level of hostility that has creeped into this discussion that has not been helpful in any way.  Very sad.

I agree there is a level of hostility over the subject and it's sad that people can't agree to disagree.  If some have chosen to leave and post in other forums because of it so be it.  This case has gone on for so long now most established forums have closed their dedicated NH forums and only open when there's something in the news.  Sure, people get mad and open up little private invite only forums all the time.  Members come and go, nothing can be done about that and there is no way we are going to please everyone all the time. 

In case you hadn't noticed, this is not BFN or BNH or Natalee's Freebirds, this is Scared Monkeys.  This site is not about just the Natalee Holloway case.  We want justice for Natalee just like we want justice for Caylee, Stacy, Donna Jou, Jaliek, etc and all the other missing persons.

Klaas,

I have the utmost respect for you and have never caused a problem on this firum.  But, San's comment to me is what was uncalled for.  I was not even posting her to begin with.  This is the level of hostility that has gone way beyond what this section of the forum was intended to produce.  IMO, Natalee and her family deserve better.

And, yes, I have noticed that this is not BFN or BNH.  This was always the preferred place to be, but not anymore.  You must have noticed the drop off in activity here.  And with all that is going on in the Netherlands and the show on E! tonight, and this is still what is being discussed? 

I have read many disturbing posts among longtime monkeys.  This isn't right.  While I have never been one to dominate the discussion here, I did notice that monkeys were always able to get through the differences.  This one has gone too far.

Personally, if I can find a good place to discuss this case I will go.  I would rather stay here, but the discussion is very one sided these days.

So to make some monkeys happy....I'll just read from now on, until I can find a better place....if that's okay with you and Red.

Have I ever been hostile to you before.  No I haven't.  But to ask for a link to another forum while you are posting here because you disagreed with what is being said is insulting.  You threw a jab at SM.

[truthseeker2]

Right.  So...will I be banned next?

I come here every single day...and yes, people are bashing Kyle.  You can call it what you want, but if you were the target of some of the posts that have been put out here you would not come back here either.  And you are losing posters over this.  If that's okay with you, then I guess it's okay with you.

LOL.  This is the most response I have ever had to a post on this forum.  I have opinions too, ya know.  And no....they have not been appreciated or respected on this forum.  So, I read.  And what has been going on here for the last few months has been very sad.

I, too, have been at this from the very beginning.  I am not a newcomer. 

There is a level of hostility that has creeped into this discussion that has not been helpful in any way.  Very sad.

I agree there is a level of hostility over the subject and it's sad that people can't agree to disagree.  If some have chosen to leave and post in other forums because of it so be it.  This case has gone on for so long now most established forums have closed their dedicated NH forums and only open when there's something in the news.  Sure, people get mad and open up little private invite only forums all the time.  Members come and go, nothing can be done about that and there is no way we are going to please everyone all the time. 

In case you hadn't noticed, this is not BFN or BNH or Natalee's Freebirds, this is Scared Monkeys.  This site is not about just the Natalee Holloway case.  We want justice for Natalee just like we want justice for Caylee, Stacy, Donna Jou, Jaliek, etc and all the other missing persons.

Klaas,

I have the utmost respect for you and have never caused a problem on this firum.  But, San's comment to me is what was uncalled for.  I was not even posting her to begin with.  This is the level of hostility that has gone way beyond what this section of the forum was intended to produce.  IMO, Natalee and her family deserve better.

And, yes, I have noticed that this is not BFN or BNH.  This was always the preferred place to be, but not anymore.  You must have noticed the drop off in activity here.  And with all that is going on in the Netherlands and the show on E! tonight, and this is still what is being discussed? 

I have read many disturbing posts among longtime monkeys.  This isn't right.  While I have never been one to dominate the discussion here, I did notice that monkeys were always able to get through the differences.  This one has gone too far.

Personally, if I can find a good place to discuss this case I will go.  I would rather stay here, but the discussion is very one sided these days.

So to make some monkeys happy....I'll just read from now on, until I can find a better place....if that's okay with you and Red.

Have I ever been hostile to you before.  No I haven't.  But to ask for a link to another forum while you are posting here because you disagreed with what is being said is insulting.  You threw a jab at SM.

I wasn't posting to you.  Make of it what you will.  I really do not care anymore. 

[ldstlou]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

I trust people...you know I do Klaas...I believed for a while that Caylee might have been kidnapped. But YOU taught me to put aside emotions and go for the facts..and I did this with Kyle.
Again...what came out...came out. If I were Kermit, I would not have done it the way she did. But regardless...to take Kyles's obvious concerns that he expressed to the Freebirds...who are KNOWN to publish the facts...in my mind, shows he was not part of some conspiracy, but was as dedicated to the truth as we are. I just think it is so wrong, to then take his concerns he expressed to Natalee's family and to the Freebirds and use them against him as Kermit has done...again..imho...is wrong. It's not the info I a so opposed to, it is what she did with the info. Fine, nothing is private...but at least say what happened when portraying the info. Kyle had concerns...and in my mind...expressed them openly with the Freebirds. H wasn't hiding anything...to the contrary...he expressed them to people committed to justice for Natalee. Why make it out as anything other than what happened? That is what I can'twrap my mind around.

[San]

Right.  So...will I be banned next?

I come here every single day...and yes, people are bashing Kyle.  You can call it what you want, but if you were the target of some of the posts that have been put out here you would not come back here either.  And you are losing posters over this.  If that's okay with you, then I guess it's okay with you.

LOL.  This is the most response I have ever had to a post on this forum.  I have opinions too, ya know.  And no....they have not been appreciated or respected on this forum.  So, I read.  And what has been going on here for the last few months has been very sad.

I, too, have been at this from the very beginning.  I am not a newcomer. 

There is a level of hostility that has creeped into this discussion that has not been helpful in any way.  Very sad.

I agree there is a level of hostility over the subject and it's sad that people can't agree to disagree.  If some have chosen to leave and post in other forums because of it so be it.  This case has gone on for so long now most established forums have closed their dedicated NH forums and only open when there's something in the news.  Sure, people get mad and open up little private invite only forums all the time.  Members come and go, nothing can be done about that and there is no way we are going to please everyone all the time. 

In case you hadn't noticed, this is not BFN or BNH or Natalee's Freebirds, this is Scared Monkeys.  This site is not about just the Natalee Holloway case.  We want justice for Natalee just like we want justice for Caylee, Stacy, Donna Jou, Jaliek, etc and all the other missing persons.

Klaas,

I have the utmost respect for you and have never caused a problem on this firum.  But, San's comment to me is what was uncalled for.  I was not even posting her to begin with.  This is the level of hostility that has gone way beyond what this section of the forum was intended to produce.  IMO, Natalee and her family deserve better.

And, yes, I have noticed that this is not BFN or BNH.  This was always the preferred place to be, but not anymore.  You must have noticed the drop off in activity here.  And with all that is going on in the Netherlands and the show on E! tonight, and this is still what is being discussed? 

I have read many disturbing posts among longtime monkeys.  This isn't right.  While I have never been one to dominate the discussion here, I did notice that monkeys were always able to get through the differences.  This one has gone too far.

Personally, if I can find a good place to discuss this case I will go.  I would rather stay here, but the discussion is very one sided these days.

So to make some monkeys happy....I'll just read from now on, until I can find a better place....if that's okay with you and Red.

Have I ever been hostile to you before.  No I haven't.  But to ask for a link to another forum while you are posting here because you disagreed with what is being said is insulting.  You threw a jab at SM.

I wasn't posting to you.  Make of it what you will.  I really do not care anymore. 

I'm done with it.  We are going to disagree on this and that's fine.

[Keepthefaith]

Isn't this what happened last time we started to discuss the Persistence???We're back to talking about everything but the Persistence?I'm still interested in who the Power families are on the island,what they own,as well as how they're tied together because they have to be.It's a very small island.You must do business with your enemies as well..JMOO

[KYcat]

Quote from: Red on Today at 10:28:32 PM
Folks I think some are missing an important point here.

I can respect those that are willing to help search for Natalee. I can respect those that help search for any missing person. However, there is a purpose and a stated goal when going into such a mission.

It is ok to question, in fact, that is what SM is all about. If one never questions, one is only propaganda. I questioned many things about this search from the outset and received some pretty hostile and petty emails back in return questioning my loyalties. If you want to see bashing ... I'll show ya bashing and making ill comments when some have less than a clue.

Some people who got involved in this case and were late to the show really should have listened, read and became more learned before they acted as if they knew everything. Do not ever forget that long before there was an ocean search ... there was one on land.

Do I applaud the Persistence and their efforts, of course I do. Do I also scratch my head and ask why with a known budget and time did they not search more targets than map a larger area and leave things unsearched ... of course I do. When one builds a home, one usually does so in an effort to complete the structure with a roof and 4 walls, not just making a larger home unfinished. That kind of makes no sense.

Do I question the fact that there was an exclusive media deal when promises were made to provide SM with pics and info long before the Persistence ever left port, yup. Do I question why there was a beg for money all the while they knew they were pulling out ... yes I do.

Folks, questioning provides accountability. That is a real important thing in life. Do not ever accept anything hook, line and sinker. Many of you have questioned me in the past or you have questioned Tim. There is nothing wrong with that. If I point forth a premise or something that was done, I would expect people to question and want more than just accept what's stated. That's what makes the internet the internet. It is not for the faint of heart.

Are people perfect ... nope, not by a long shot. However, acting rude to those that have been a apart of this story and searched long before it was ever the en vogue thing to do and without a "Date Line" exclusive is hardly a way to gain favor. If you want attacked, maybe I should share some emails.

Questioning is not attacking. I would say as always be civil ... however, making people accountable to questioning is an important part of life. One better be able to hold up to questions and defend their point of view. Especially if one wants to be on the net.

___________________________________________________________________________


I just have to say BRAVO!!! Wonderful post Red.  I am not a popular poster here at SM, I know I have not contributed a lot of information that can help solve this case, but I think when you get a group of concerned and caring people together, they can do great things.  I can only ask questions and give my opinion.  I can agree and I can disagree.  I hope I have done that with respect to other posters.  I tend to question everything and analyze everything.  That is just my nature.  I will not apologize for that.  I like to know the what, where, when, and who.  That is why I am here at SM. 

JMO

[klaasend]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

I trust people...you know I do Klaas...I believed for a while that Caylee might have been kidnapped. But YOU taught me to put aside emotions and go for the facts..and I did this with Kyle.
Again...what came out...came out. If I were Kermit, I would not have done it the way she did. But regardless...to take Kyles's obvious concerns that he expressed to the Freebirds...who are KNOWN to publish the facts...in my mind, shows he was not part of some conspiracy, but was as dedicated to the truth as we are. I just think it is so wrong, to then take his concerns he expressed to Natalee's family and to the Freebirds and use them against him as Kermit has done...again..imho...is wrong. It's not the info I a so opposed to, it is what she did with the info. Fine, nothing is private...but at least say what happened when portraying the info. Kyle had concerns...and in my mind...expressed them openly with the Freebirds. H wasn't hiding anything...to the contrary...he expressed them to people committed to justice for Natalee. Why make it out as anything other than what happened? That is what I can'twrap my mind around.

And I understand all of that.  What concerns me is some of the stuff about Kyle and the others shopping around to make money off the trap photos that possibly show the remains of someone (according to Kyle) before telling Natalee's family about their concerns.  Justice for Natalee and getting information to Natalee's family should have come before any attempt to gain monitarily from the trap photos IMO.  If none of this is true then refute what Kermit has posted. 

[wreck]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

I trust people...you know I do Klaas...I believed for a while that Caylee might have been kidnapped. But YOU taught me to put aside emotions and go for the facts..and I did this with Kyle.
Again...what came out...came out. If I were Kermit, I would not have done it the way she did. But regardless...to take Kyles's obvious concerns that he expressed to the Freebirds...who are KNOWN to publish the facts...in my mind, shows he was not part of some conspiracy, but was as dedicated to the truth as we are. I just think it is so wrong, to then take his concerns he expressed to Natalee's family and to the Freebirds and use them against him as Kermit has done...again..imho...is wrong. It's not the info I a so opposed to, it is what she did with the info. Fine, nothing is private...but at least say what happened when portraying the info. Kyle had concerns...and in my mind...expressed them openly with the Freebirds. H wasn't hiding anything...to the contrary...he expressed them to people committed to justice for Natalee. Why make it out as anything other than what happened? That is what I can'twrap my mind around.

I think you have ONLY listened to Kyle's side (and then - even just recently). There was a 2 month period where Kyle was NOT forthright. I think he was well-intenioned at first, he was led astray and is only recently trying to make himself look honorable again.

[ldstlou]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

I trust people...you know I do Klaas...I believed for a while that Caylee might have been kidnapped. But YOU taught me to put aside emotions and go for the facts..and I did this with Kyle.
Again...what came out...came out. If I were Kermit, I would not have done it the way she did. But regardless...to take Kyles's obvious concerns that he expressed to the Freebirds...who are KNOWN to publish the facts...in my mind, shows he was not part of some conspiracy, but was as dedicated to the truth as we are. I just think it is so wrong, to then take his concerns he expressed to Natalee's family and to the Freebirds and use them against him as Kermit has done...again..imho...is wrong. It's not the info I a so opposed to, it is what she did with the info. Fine, nothing is private...but at least say what happened when portraying the info. Kyle had concerns...and in my mind...expressed them openly with the Freebirds. H wasn't hiding anything...to the contrary...he expressed them to people committed to justice for Natalee. Why make it out as anything other than what happened? That is what I can'twrap my mind around.

I think you have ONLY listened to Kyle's side (and then - even just recently). There was a 2 month period where Kyle was NOT forthright. I think he was well-intenioned at first, he was led astray and is only recently trying to make himself look honorable again.

Wreck, he was on another job and on another ship. When he came home he inquired about the cloth they found and found out it took waaaay too long to get it to the FBI for testing...and found out about a legal clause Aruba got away with...another long story...tell Kermit to tell you about that one...that says they can only test against Natalee's shirt...great legal maneuver by Aruba.
I just found out about Peaches. I have stayed away from SM because of this stuff...and I had no idea Peaches passed and now I have to go cry for awhile. I loved that Lady I never met but wore her name on my back when I did my race for the cure. I am still so shocked. I can't believe it...how did I miss her getting so sick again? See why we have to fix this???!!! I need to go cry for awhile now.

[Keepthefaith]

Why have a Confidentiality Agreement when all you seek is the truth?Is the TRUTH now a commodity to be bartered and traded?Should the TRUTH not be FREE??Just questions..So the TRUTH isn't FREE??

[Tamikosmom]

The bottom line is ... Kyle Kingman could have exposed the Persistence hoax to the family and the FBI the minute he step foot on American soil.  Maybe ... just maybe ... pressure could have been put on Aruba at that point in time to ... reveal the contents of the trap/cage ... the contents that Kyle ... in his own words ... believes could have been the remains of Natalee Holloway.

I will not apologize.  My loyalty is with the family of Natalee Holloway.  Kyle betrayed the family of Natalee Holloway when he made the choice upon his return to America to post on both a private and open forum regarding his concerns encompassing the John S./Aruban connection.  Kyle betrayed the family of Natalee Holloway when he made the choice to make a deal with the major networks.

I am angry at Kyle Kingman and ... I will not uphold him.  His betrayal of the family of Natalee Holloway makes him unworthy to be upheld.

However ... I do not hate Kyle Kingman.

If he were my son ... my words would be no different.  He has done wrong and ... he must attempt to right the wrong.

The opportunity may have been missed to bring Natalee Holloway home but ... revealing ALL regarding the Persistence hoax to the family and the FBI and ... asking God and the family's forgiveness could be a start.

Then working along side of the family and the FBI pressuring the "powers that be" in Aruban to reveal the truth encompassing the contents of the trap/cage may be the next steps.

There will be consequences but ... to be free from the burden of wrongdoing will pale in comparison and ... I know that Kyle knows it.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

I trust people...you know I do Klaas...I believed for a while that Caylee might have been kidnapped. But YOU taught me to put aside emotions and go for the facts..and I did this with Kyle.
Again...what came out...came out. If I were Kermit, I would not have done it the way she did. But regardless...to take Kyles's obvious concerns that he expressed to the Freebirds...who are KNOWN to publish the facts...in my mind, shows he was not part of some conspiracy, but was as dedicated to the truth as we are. I just think it is so wrong, to then take his concerns he expressed to Natalee's family and to the Freebirds and use them against him as Kermit has done...again..imho...is wrong. It's not the info I a so opposed to, it is what she did with the info. Fine, nothing is private...but at least say what happened when portraying the info. Kyle had concerns...and in my mind...expressed them openly with the Freebirds. H wasn't hiding anything...to the contrary...he expressed them to people committed to justice for Natalee. Why make it out as anything other than what happened? That is what I can'twrap my mind around.

I think you have ONLY listened to Kyle's side (and then - even just recently). There was a 2 month period where Kyle was NOT forthright. I think he was well-intenioned at first, he was led astray and is only recently trying to make himself look honorable again.

Wreck, he was on another job and on another ship. When he came home he inquired about the cloth they found and found out it took waaaay too long to get it to the FBI for testing...and found out about a legal clause Aruba got away with...another long story...tell Kermit to tell you about that one...that says they can only test against Natalee's shirt...great legal maneuver by Aruba.
I just found out about Peaches. I have stayed away from SM because of this stuff...and I had no idea Peaches passed and now I have to go cry for awhile. I loved that Lady I never met but wore her name on my back when I did my race for the cure. I am still so shocked. I can't believe it...how did I miss her getting so sick again? See why we have to fix this???!!! I need to go cry for awhile now.

Again.Therein lies the problem.Who trusted the ALE??Kyle tells us in his own words.