March 29, 2024, 01:32:49 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08  (Read 230233 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8317



« Reply #460 on: December 30, 2008, 05:04:43 PM »

truthseeker

I would sincerely appreciate your perspective on this topic when the confirmation from the Freebird's former administrator is considered.  Has it changed?

Thank you.

Janet

++++++

I think the postings about Kyle have been too harsh.  He clearly expressed his concerns all along and provided tons of info that would never have been available otherwise.  I also agree that some of what he said may have been taken out of context.  It's easy to question everything he did in retrospect, but I think he did his best functioning in a complex situation and had good intentions.  Sometimes things are not black and white, and of course he has to protect himself and his livelihood and reputation.  I think it was a mistake to alienate him, and I don't think he owes it to SM to defend himself.  Sometimes you are placed in a situation where it's a no-win no matter what you do. And using his religious beliefs to try to get him to come back and explain seems cruel. 

Thank you!!  Well said.


No, Janet, it hasn't.  We still have no idea what was in that trap.  That has been my perspective from the very beginning.  That has not changed.  The idea that I like coming to SM to see the same thing posted over and over and over has not changed either.  I have the same goal as every other person who posts at this site.  I just do not get the same level respect.  And...heaven forbid you decide to make me your next target. Why...I shake in my boots.  But, I guess that is the type of thing that makes it all go 'round for some.

Me, as I have stated before, I am an analyst...and a damn good one.  I still do not see any facts indicating there were human remains in that trap.  Are we to assume that as fact because Kyle says so?  From what I can tell from most of the posts here lately...he is not to be believed.  Which is it?  Is he trutworthy or not?  So for me, until it is proven that human remains were found and that those human remains were Natalee's I will keep looking for answers.

Also, as an analyst, I fully understand contract work and the use/non-use of intellectual property.  Kyle may have disseminated that information within violation of a contract, and therefore his azz would be on the line.  If he is wrong, and he may be wrong, he may never be able to work again in his current capacity.  For whatever reason, he chose to do what he did.  I was not there, so I cannot and do not judge his actions. 

I accept the information regading the contents of the trap for what it is...his opinion...nothing more.  Calling him out on a forum day in and day out has not changed any of the known facts about Natalee.  It's all supposition.  I hope that someone has the where with all to get to the bottom of it, like our FBI.  But, they have had this information for a while now and we have not heard a word from them as to any future investigation.  We are only hearing a request for further investigations from the Netherlands.

And I also agree with whoever posted last night....trying to appeal to someone's faith is a personal thing...people can do that in open forums if they like.  It's not something I would do.

Back to lurking and researching......

I'm not answering for Janet,

But I just wanted to give you my own opinion.
Kyle said it was remains and considering he is the geophysicist who knows how to interpret the information he sees, then I tended to believe him. In addition, I didn't think it was highly likely that he'd be trying to sell the ROV footage to producers if it was a sponge or rock.

Also, I believe, that Tim Miller has seen enough skulls to be able to differentiate real from fake. I think he saw what he says he saw.

And why would only Aruban divers sweep in, collect the material fromt he trap if it was not important. Why dive and spend money to collect a sponge or rock?





Logged
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8317



« Reply #461 on: December 30, 2008, 05:07:41 PM »

Hi Kermit.

I see ya lurking.

 

Janet

Hello Ms. Janet.
It's colder then a frogs tit where I am.



Hey Kermit its 70 Degrees in South Central Texas hop on down for some warmth and Margaritas.....  

I lurv Texas!
I lurv that restaurant called Panchos! Best Mexican food ever!

Yep Texas is The Place For Great Mexican Food and Lots of Other Stuff Too!  Thanks Kermit for All You Do for Natalee!   

Thank you for thanking me, but I honestly thank all the people who help and have given so freely, so willingly, so deeply all in the name of a little girl named: NATALEE HOLLOWAY

WE STAND UNITED - TOGETHER



Logged
bastibro
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 863



WWW
« Reply #462 on: December 30, 2008, 05:09:40 PM »

truthseeker

I would sincerely appreciate your perspective on this topic when the confirmation from the Freebird's former administrator is considered.  Has it changed?

Thank you.

Janet

++++++

I think the postings about Kyle have been too harsh.  He clearly expressed his concerns all along and provided tons of info that would never have been available otherwise.  I also agree that some of what he said may have been taken out of context.  It's easy to question everything he did in retrospect, but I think he did his best functioning in a complex situation and had good intentions.  Sometimes things are not black and white, and of course he has to protect himself and his livelihood and reputation.  I think it was a mistake to alienate him, and I don't think he owes it to SM to defend himself.  Sometimes you are placed in a situation where it's a no-win no matter what you do. And using his religious beliefs to try to get him to come back and explain seems cruel. 

Thank you!!  Well said.


No, Janet, it hasn't.  We still have no idea what was in that trap.  That has been my perspective from the very beginning.  That has not changed.  The idea that I like coming to SM to see the same thing posted over and over and over has not changed either.  I have the same goal as every other person who posts at this site.  I just do not get the same level respect.  And...heaven forbid you decide to make me your next target. Why...I shake in my boots.  But, I guess that is the type of thing that makes it all go 'round for some.

Me, as I have stated before, I am an analyst...and a damn good one.  I still do not see any facts indicating there were human remains in that trap.  Are we to assume that as fact because Kyle says so?  From what I can tell from most of the posts here lately...he is not to be believed.  Which is it?  Is he trutworthy or not?  So for me, until it is proven that human remains were found and that those human remains were Natalee's I will keep looking for answers.

Also, as an analyst, I fully understand contract work and the use/non-use of intellectual property.  Kyle may have disseminated that information within violation of a contract, and therefore his azz would be on the line.  If he is wrong, and he may be wrong, he may never be able to work again in his current capacity.  For whatever reason, he chose to do what he did.  I was not there, so I cannot and do not judge his actions. 

I accept the information regading the contents of the trap for what it is...his opinion...nothing more.  Calling him out on a forum day in and day out has not changed any of the known facts about Natalee.  It's all supposition.  I hope that someone has the where with all to get to the bottom of it, like our FBI.  But, they have had this information for a while now and we have not heard a word from them as to any future investigation.  We are only hearing a request for further investigations from the Netherlands.

And I also agree with whoever posted last night....trying to appeal to someone's faith is a personal thing...people can do that in open forums if they like.  It's not something I would do.

Back to lurking and researching......

I a 98% agree !! 

However it`s my opinion to that this ARE human remains(not the thing that looked like a skull)

Logged

never lift the pressure of evil island
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8156



« Reply #463 on: December 30, 2008, 05:10:19 PM »

Isn't that the point......Truthseeker2  "We still have no idea what was in that trap."
[/quote

Bump
Logged

"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8317



« Reply #464 on: December 30, 2008, 05:10:26 PM »

Thank you for the warm welcome.  The truth is coming out.  I believe that Kyle's intentions were honorable at first, but his hands got tied.  Once his hands were tied, his focus shifted.

Instead of monkeys and birds eating each other, we need to concentrate on where the EVIDENCE is that was removed from the cage.

wingnut

Using Kyle Kingman's own words in his posts to the Natalee's Freebirds which can be traced through IP number ...

1.  Is there no way the family and John Q. Kelly can put pressure on the "powers that be" in Aruba?

2.  Is there no way that the family can expose the Persistence hoax through media sources? 

Janet


Hello Janet. 

I wish I had the answers.  I know that JQK has the information now.  I personally provided it to him. 



Hi Wingnut.

That was a fun day - I was talking to Scott and you were talking to John Q. Kelly!

You are my hero!



Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37229



« Reply #465 on: December 30, 2008, 05:10:27 PM »

Kermit,Janet,anyone!Do we know if Silvetti is still working with Tim M. or was that just hearsay about them continuing to work together??Be curious as to Tim's feeling's..

I do believe that Tim Miller and John Silvetti may very well have a connection to some capacity within the TES organization but ... I also believe that Tim Miller does not have clue that he was deceived when his suspicions regarding remains in the trap/cage were negated.

IMO ... Tim Miller has a heart of gold.  However ... in regards to relationships ... he is too trusting.  I believe that we were blessed with a heart and mind and ... together discernment can be arrived at.

Janet

++++


http://www.texasequusearch.org/

Tim Miller and John Silvetti from the Silvetti Group out of Louisiana, will be in Yankeetown, Florida to search for the two men missing since their plane lost radar contact with officials. Darien Peckham and Zachary Schlitt were headed to Vandenberg Airport, Tampa, Florida and never reached their destination. We will post more details regarding this search at a later date.


Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8317



« Reply #466 on: December 30, 2008, 05:12:10 PM »

Peaches is in every Monkeys heart - forever
Logged
ldstlou
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5026



« Reply #467 on: December 30, 2008, 05:12:45 PM »

ldstlou
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #283 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:17 PM »
I have real problem with Kermit.
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.280

Idstlou,
I am not going to do things or say things that have any agenda other then to expose the truth.
I am sorry you choose to interpret what you are told differently, but I do not. I have not taken
anything out of context. I have not violated any agreements. I HAVE given information of a crime
and cover-up to the appropriate individuals.
I will not belabor your opinion of me.




I just keep going back to your post about how you "single handily" uncovered the cover-up or something to that affect.  Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me...at the  expense of others.
I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird. I am under the impression that you did agree to confidentiality in regards to what was spoken on the Freebird's board...and if that is true...you DID break a confidentiality agreement.
I forwarded the post by the "former admin" to Kyle and Jug...I will wait for their response thank you.
Logged

"No justice for Natalee - No tourists for Aruba!"
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 74276



WWW
« Reply #468 on: December 30, 2008, 05:13:23 PM »

Kermit,Janet,anyone!Do we know if Silvetti is still working with Tim M. or was that just hearsay about them continuing to work together??Be curious as to Tim's feeling's..

Not sure.  It was reported that Silvetti was helping TES with a search I think in Louisiana.  That was about a month or so ago.
Logged
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8317



« Reply #469 on: December 30, 2008, 05:13:50 PM »

IMO ... Tim Miller has a heart of gold.  However ... in regards to relationships ... he is too trusting.  I believe that we were blessed with a heart and mind and ... together discernment can be arrived at.

Janet

++++


I completely agree with you Janet.


Logged
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5376



« Reply #470 on: December 30, 2008, 05:14:05 PM »

Thanks to:
wingnut and Freebird Admin.

I don't know a lot about the law....but....pictures and video can be intellectual property....but the remains of a person and a crime scene rises to another level....just because a meter reader finds a body, does not mean he owns the rights to the crime scene...even if he used special equipment to locate the scene...the finder does not own the remains....Aruba (not the Persistence) might have ownership over the findings, in their waters...but we are not talking treasure...we are talking about a person...much different..IMO


O/T

I had read about L. Schaeffer and the history of the "adventure" company, he purchased out of bankruptcy.  I believe the goal was to sell "adventure" charters to look for things like sunken treasure, etc.  I could see a side "business" mapping shipwrecks, etc. to sell adventurer tours.
Logged
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 32402


ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #471 on: December 30, 2008, 05:15:01 PM »

Hi Kermit.

I see ya lurking.

 

Janet

Hello Ms. Janet.
It's colder then a frogs tit where I am.



Hey Kermit its 70 Degrees in South Central Texas hop on down for some warmth and Margaritas.....  

I lurv Texas!
I lurv that restaurant called Panchos! Best Mexican food ever!


 

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8156



« Reply #472 on: December 30, 2008, 05:23:28 PM »

ldstlou.If Jug & Kyle are aware of all of this why bother them with what they already know?Is this strictly about the Confidentiality Agreement?You seem to have a vested  interest in the disemination of the information!Correct me if i'm wrong.
Logged

"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37229



« Reply #473 on: December 30, 2008, 05:23:50 PM »

Well ... if I value my 43 year marriage and ... I do ... I must attend to life outside the computer room.

Thanks you wingnut and the "former administrator of the Natalee's Freebirds" for confirming the truth encompassing all that Kermit has shared regarding the Persistence hoax ... a hoax that was a betrayal to Natalee Holloway ... a hoax that was a betrayal to her long-suffering family and ... a hoax that was a betrayal to those who sacrificially donated to the undertaking.

Kermit ... an extra big hug for doing what was right in spite of the opposition ... doing what was right in the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway ... a cause that you have supported through your time and research since the getgo.

Thanks again to all.

Later, Monkeys

Janet
2:25 PM PT
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Kermit
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8317



« Reply #474 on: December 30, 2008, 05:26:14 PM »

ldstlou
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #283 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:17 PM »
I have real problem with Kermit.
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.280

Idstlou,
I am not going to do things or say things that have any agenda other then to expose the truth.
I am sorry you choose to interpret what you are told differently, but I do not. I have not taken
anything out of context. I have not violated any agreements. I HAVE given information of a crime
and cover-up to the appropriate individuals.
I will not belabor your opinion of me.




I just keep going back to your post about how you "single handily" uncovered the cover-up or something to that affect.  Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me...at the  expense of others.
I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird. I am under the impression that you did agree to confidentiality in regards to what was spoken on the Freebird's board...and if that is true...you DID break a confidentiality agreement.
I forwarded the post by the "former admin" to Kyle and Jug...I will wait for their response thank you.


When I stated that I single handedly uncovered a cover-up - it was stated in jest. The reason I stated that is because it is obviously preposterous for anyone to think that. Proved by the Freebirds choosing to come forward and tell you that I posted the truth.

btw, I did not ask any of the Freebirds to come forward.

Your assumptions are incorrect and you are coming to those conclusions because you are ONLY getting your information fed to you from what Kyle chooses to tell you in your conversations now! NOT through months of knowing him, emails with him, posts of his etc.

Some simple questions you may consider when you try to weigh the truth:
If Kyle was so committed to bringing home Natalee, why did he try to sell the ROV footage back in Feb?
If Kyle was so committed to bringing home Natalee, why would he withhold evidence of a crime from the FBI?
If Kyle was so committed to bringing home Natalee, why would he withhold evidence from Beth, Dave?
If Kyle was so committed to bringing home Natalee, why did he have a secret meeting with Tim Tehran and by proxy, Louis Sachafer to cut John Silvetti out of the loop, have media ready to expose the evidence of the cage/trap?








Logged
hotping
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3747


All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!


« Reply #475 on: December 30, 2008, 05:27:14 PM »

Hi Kermit.

I see ya lurking.

 

Janet

Hello Ms. Janet.
It's colder then a frogs tit where I am.



Hey Kermit its 70 Degrees in South Central Texas hop on down for some warmth and Margaritas.....  

I lurv Texas!
I lurv that restaurant called Panchos! Best Mexican food ever!


 


Ridem Cowboy! Kermit looks Good in that Hat! 
Logged

In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
wingnut
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 238



« Reply #476 on: December 30, 2008, 05:27:42 PM »

ldstlou
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #283 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:17 PM »
I have real problem with Kermit.
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.280

Idstlou,
I am not going to do things or say things that have any agenda other then to expose the truth.
I am sorry you choose to interpret what you are told differently, but I do not. I have not taken
anything out of context. I have not violated any agreements. I HAVE given information of a crime
and cover-up to the appropriate individuals.
I will not belabor your opinion of me.




I just keep going back to your post about how you "single handily" uncovered the cover-up or something to that affect.  Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me...at the  expense of others.
I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird. I am under the impression that you did agree to confidentiality in regards to what was spoken on the Freebird's board...and if that is true...you DID break a confidentiality agreement.
I forwarded the post by the "former admin" to Kyle and Jug...I will wait for their response thank you.



From your post above:  I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird.

The answer is NEITHER.  Not a Freebird anymore.  Not disgruntled.

I am puzzled about your motive for questioning a group of people intent on uncovering the truth of what happened to Natalee.  The Freebirds' mission has been clear - answers for the family and justice for Natalee.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Logged
ldstlou
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5026



« Reply #477 on: December 30, 2008, 05:29:07 PM »

ldstlou.If Jug & Kyle are aware of all of this why bother them with what they already know?Is this strictly about the Confidentiality Agreement?You seem to have a vested  interest in the disemination of the information!Correct me if i'm wrong.

I have stated over and over what it is about for me. The kid busted his butt on a ship looking for Natalee...all of the crew did...and to slander them now..is just plain disrespectful. Like them or not, agree with how the search went or not....that is one thing...but to insinuate that these people were in on a conspiracy with Aruban officials in my mind...in MY opinion...is just wrong. I am entitled to my opinion also.
Logged

"No justice for Natalee - No tourists for Aruba!"
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 74276



WWW
« Reply #478 on: December 30, 2008, 05:29:13 PM »

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's family are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.
  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?


In the example above would a confidentiality agreement make any difference to you?  It would not to me.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 05:32:39 PM by klaasend » Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37229



« Reply #479 on: December 30, 2008, 05:30:18 PM »


I just keep going back to your post about how you "single handily" uncovered the cover-up or something to that affect.  Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me...at the  expense of others.

I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird. I am under the impression that you did agree to confidentiality in regards to what was spoken on the Freebird's board...and if that is true...you DID break a confidentiality agreement.

I forwarded the post by the "former admin" to Kyle and Jug...I will wait for their response thank you.


Lou ... I posted the following to you last night.  Maybe you missed it.

Janet

++++++


How was Kermit ... who has staunchly upheld Natalee Holloway's family for 3 1/2 years ... to know when he went along with a "confidentiality agreement" on a private forum that Kyle Kingman's was about to reveal that the Persistence undertaking was nothing but a hoax to further the Aruban coverup ... a hoax that would insure that the family would never receive closure ... would never bring home their beloved home to rest on American soil.

A confidentiality agreement could not be honored under the circumstance.  The Persistence hoax needed to to exposed.

After being assured that Beth Holloway and the FBI were aware of the ROV images ... Kermit went out on a limb and took a personal risk on behalf of justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her family and ... shared the truth on an open forum ... the SM Natalee Holloway Forum.

Maybe the finger pointing should be directed at Kyle Kingman ... not the messenger.

The ROV images that escaped ALE destruction and ... Kyles observations regarding the the Persistence hoax should have been immediately shared with the family and FBI upon setting foot on American soil rather than ... posting on a private and/or open forum.  Also there should have been no attempt to make a deal with major networks.

Janet

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 3.391 seconds with 19 queries.